Do you vote?

[jdun]

I sounds like he's saying "I'm stupid. I know I'm stupid. I don't trust my own ideas or my ability to follow news. If that ever chances, then I'll vote, but until then I will not."
It's very honest, and kind of the reason why the American framers established the electoral college (bigger-nerd mass correction sheild activate).

Honestly, it's less an admission of stupidity and more "I don't agree with any of the candidates, so I'm not going to vote for them".

Also, the electoral college needlessly overcomplicates the election. All it does is give someone the opportunity to buy a win when they're losing the popular vote. We already have the popular vote anyway, there's no reason to add an electoral college on top of that.

The electoral college isn't complicated. In fact it pretty simple. To understand US politics you need to understand the beginning. Read the above post from this one to find out.

With that said you are right that no elected official represent the US people as a whole. It wasn't design to.

 

[Greni]

You will see how bad welfare states are soon enough when the Europeans goes 3rd world.

The Europeans are broke. So broke that they will probably go 3rd world. That's what happen when no one produce wealth and everybody spending money like drunken sailors.

I'm afraid that you have a wild misconception about what a 3rd world country actually is.

Also talking about "Europeans" as an indistinct whole makes me giggle.

It funny to see Europeans on Escapist that think they are so smart yet they don't know a damn thing.

When Europeans BEGS DEVELOPING and POOR countries for MONEY, what that tell us? When all the major European corporation deals in US dollars and only used Euro when they have to, what that tell us all? When smart Europeans decided to exchange Euro for dollars and get their money out of Europe what that tell us all?

The Europeans are broke because of their welfare state. They now have to beg for money to paid for their debts. The problem is no one is lending them any more money. Without money no welfare. Without money there is no service. Without money Europeans will enter 3rd world status.

Don't pretend you know more then I do.

Well that was a FABULOUS rant ol' chap, but I'm AFRAID that you are MISTAKEN on a few things in your POST I am quoting. Now I'll stop making fun of you randomly writing in all caps.

It funny to see Europeans on Escapist that think they are so smart yet they don't know a damn thing.

I'm not sure how to respond to that, or how that is even relevant. All I can say is "okay, I haven't noticed". Moving on.

When Europeans BEGS DEVELOPING and POOR countries for MONEY, what that tell us? When all the major European corporation deals in US dollars and only used Euro when they have to, what that tell us all? When smart Europeans decided to exchange Euro for dollars and get their money out of Europe what that tell us all?

A really poor way of making a point is bombarding facts without citing any sources. Which 'Europeans' (Countries? Companies? Individuals?) are begging which poor and developing countries for money? Which corporations only deal in the euro when they have to and in US currency otherwise? (And as a site-note: Not all European countries use the euro, Wikipedia has a good article)

The Europeans are broke because of their welfare state. They now have to beg for money to paid for their debts. The problem is no one is lending them any more money. Without money no welfare. Without money there is no service. Without money Europeans will enter 3rd world status.

Now to tell you straight up, I'm from Iceland. We don't use the euro. We were hit early and hard by the financial crisis but the fact that we are a welfare state, and a pretty rigorous at that, had absolutely nothing to do with our crash. The main reason was foreign expansion by companies and (mainly) banking branches to (again mainly) Britain and the Netherlands but not enough money to back it all up. Furthermore during investigation on the matter there were quite a lot of lobbying fat cats revealed to be getting rather greedy in our times of luxury. Evading tax and using all the tricks to basically get richer by dirty means.

And to tell you the truth, we seem to be recovering rather quickly. We evaded going on the European Union yacht when it seemed reasonable and sure enough that turned out to be little more than painted cardboard and started to sink.

I can't obviously tell you how our neighbours are doing firsthand but from where I'm sitting it seems to be nowhere near as drastic as you might think. Now get off your USAmerican high horse, as it seems to be shrinking with every year, (glass houses and all that) and join us in reality. It's actually quite nice.

 

[jdun]

You will see how bad welfare states are soon enough when the Europeans goes 3rd world.

The Europeans are broke. So broke that they will probably go 3rd world. That's what happen when no one produce wealth and everybody spending money like drunken sailors.

I'm afraid that you have a wild misconception about what a 3rd world country actually is.

Also talking about "Europeans" as an indistinct whole makes me giggle.

It funny to see Europeans on Escapist that think they are so smart yet they don't know a damn thing.

When Europeans BEGS DEVELOPING and POOR countries for MONEY, what that tell us? When all the major European corporation deals in US dollars and only used Euro when they have to, what that tell us all? When smart Europeans decided to exchange Euro for dollars and get their money out of Europe what that tell us all?

The Europeans are broke because of their welfare state. They now have to beg for money to paid for their debts. The problem is no one is lending them any more money. Without money no welfare. Without money there is no service. Without money Europeans will enter 3rd world status.

Don't pretend you know more then I do.

Well that was a FABULOUS rant ol' chap, but I'm AFRAID that you are MISTAKEN on a few things in your POST I am quoting. Now I'll stop making fun of you randomly writing in all caps.

It funny to see Europeans on Escapist that think they are so smart yet they don't know a damn thing.

I'm not sure how to respond to that, or how that is even relevant. All I can say is "okay, I haven't noticed". Moving on.

When Europeans BEGS DEVELOPING and POOR countries for MONEY, what that tell us? When all the major European corporation deals in US dollars and only used Euro when they have to, what that tell us all? When smart Europeans decided to exchange Euro for dollars and get their money out of Europe what that tell us all?

A really poor way of making a point is bombarding facts without citing any sources. Which 'Europeans' (Countries? Companies? Individuals?) are begging which poor and developing countries for money? Which corporations only deal in the euro when they have to and in US currency otherwise? (And as a site-note: Not all European countries use the euro, Wikipedia has a good article)

The Europeans are broke because of their welfare state. They now have to beg for money to paid for their debts. The problem is no one is lending them any more money. Without money no welfare. Without money there is no service. Without money Europeans will enter 3rd world status.

Now to tell you straight up, I'm from Iceland. We don't use the euro. We were hit early and hard by the financial crisis but the fact that we are a welfare state, and a pretty rigorous at that, had absolutely nothing to do with our crash. The main reason was foreign expansion by companies and (mainly) banking branches to (again mainly) Britain and the Netherlands but not enough money to back it all up. Furthermore during investigation on the matter there were quite a lot of lobbying fat cats revealed to be getting rather greedy in our times of luxury. Evading tax and using all the tricks to basically get richer by dirty means.

And to tell you the truth, we seem to be recovering rather quickly. We evaded going on the European Union yacht when it seemed reasonable and sure enough that turned out to be little more than painted cardboard and started to sink.

I can't obviously tell you how our neighbours are doing firsthand but from where I'm sitting it seems to be nowhere near as drastic as you might think. Now get off your USAmerican high horse, as it seems to be shrinking with every year, (glass houses and all that) and join us in reality. It's actually quite nice.

You're from Iceland you guys already went bankrupted. You guys are lucky that your country went bankrupted first. At least you had a head start. With that said once the rest of Europe go down the drain, Iceland won't be a cheap vacation spot anymore and your recovery will die along with it.

Your foreign expansion was to support your welfare state, right? The banks needed more returns because the government needed more money to support the welfare state.

 

[DustyDrB]

Why would I?

My choices are.

1: Lying scumbag politician

2: Lying scumbag politician

3: Lying scumbag politician

Hmm, decisions, decisions...

That's pretty much how I feel. I have voted, but then I saw the candidate I chose do much of the opposite. If they are just going to lie anyway, why even spend the time on them?

I do vote on actual issues when given the chance, but the politicians themselves are just too nebulous in their stances. Unless there is an actual issue to vote on that I care about, I'll go spend my time trying to make a difference in a more sure way than by putting my faith in a man (or woman).

 

[Greni]

You will see how bad welfare states are soon enough when the Europeans goes 3rd world.

The Europeans are broke. So broke that they will probably go 3rd world. That's what happen when no one produce wealth and everybody spending money like drunken sailors.

I'm afraid that you have a wild misconception about what a 3rd world country actually is.

Also talking about "Europeans" as an indistinct whole makes me giggle.

It funny to see Europeans on Escapist that think they are so smart yet they don't know a damn thing.

When Europeans BEGS DEVELOPING and POOR countries for MONEY, what that tell us? When all the major European corporation deals in US dollars and only used Euro when they have to, what that tell us all? When smart Europeans decided to exchange Euro for dollars and get their money out of Europe what that tell us all?

The Europeans are broke because of their welfare state. They now have to beg for money to paid for their debts. The problem is no one is lending them any more money. Without money no welfare. Without money there is no service. Without money Europeans will enter 3rd world status.

Don't pretend you know more then I do.

Well that was a FABULOUS rant ol' chap, but I'm AFRAID that you are MISTAKEN on a few things in your POST I am quoting. Now I'll stop making fun of you randomly writing in all caps.

It funny to see Europeans on Escapist that think they are so smart yet they don't know a damn thing.

I'm not sure how to respond to that, or how that is even relevant. All I can say is "okay, I haven't noticed". Moving on.

When Europeans BEGS DEVELOPING and POOR countries for MONEY, what that tell us? When all the major European corporation deals in US dollars and only used Euro when they have to, what that tell us all? When smart Europeans decided to exchange Euro for dollars and get their money out of Europe what that tell us all?

A really poor way of making a point is bombarding facts without citing any sources. Which 'Europeans' (Countries? Companies? Individuals?) are begging which poor and developing countries for money? Which corporations only deal in the euro when they have to and in US currency otherwise? (And as a site-note: Not all European countries use the euro, Wikipedia has a good article)

The Europeans are broke because of their welfare state. They now have to beg for money to paid for their debts. The problem is no one is lending them any more money. Without money no welfare. Without money there is no service. Without money Europeans will enter 3rd world status.

Now to tell you straight up, I'm from Iceland. We don't use the euro. We were hit early and hard by the financial crisis but the fact that we are a welfare state, and a pretty rigorous at that, had absolutely nothing to do with our crash. The main reason was foreign expansion by companies and (mainly) banking branches to (again mainly) Britain and the Netherlands but not enough money to back it all up. Furthermore during investigation on the matter there were quite a lot of lobbying fat cats revealed to be getting rather greedy in our times of luxury. Evading tax and using all the tricks to basically get richer by dirty means.

And to tell you the truth, we seem to be recovering rather quickly. We evaded going on the European Union yacht when it seemed reasonable and sure enough that turned out to be little more than painted cardboard and started to sink.

I can't obviously tell you how our neighbours are doing firsthand but from where I'm sitting it seems to be nowhere near as drastic as you might think. Now get off your USAmerican high horse, as it seems to be shrinking with every year, (glass houses and all that) and join us in reality. It's actually quite nice.

You're from Iceland you guys already went bankrupted. You guys are lucky that your country went bankrupted first. At least you had a head start. With that said once the rest of Europe go down the drain, Iceland won't be a cheap vacation spot anymore and your recovery will die along with it.

Your foreign expansion was to support your welfare state, right? The banks needed more returns because the government needed more money to support the welfare state.

That first part just shows complete ignorance towards how countries operate on a financial level. I'm no expert but damn!

No, the expansion was just greed. Hasty decisions made by greedy people in a time of good fortune.

I'm done. You aren't arguing, at least on a civil level. It's like talking to a wall that occasionally talks back.

 

[RussetRanger]

To the Americans continually stating that you have no right to complain if you didn't vote: please, stop.

Someone posted the Carlin video, but apparently half of you haven't watched it.
If you don't vote, you can't complain? What kind of fucked up logic is that? How does that follow?

If you vote, YOU can't complain, because you entered into an agreement to abide by the majority choice. Complaining seems hypocritical in that case.

If you don't vote, it's likely because you realize that voting is about as useful as clipping your fingernails in determining the direction this country goes.

YES! YES! YES! YES!

Someone really needed to bring that up.


Anyways, I have to vote as well ........ so there's the answer. I would not if I did not have to, as I reject politics on religious grounds. Plus my country's politics are embarassing.

 

[Gerishnakov]

no elected official represent the US people as a whole. It wasn't design to.

I'm fairly sure that's part of what the president, and only the president, is for.

 

[ChildishLegacy]

Amazes me how many people on here don't vote, I would have thought it would be a minority on here, seeing as how... passionate some people on this forum get in their politics.

I'm 17 so haven't had the chance to vote yet, but I will be doing in the next general election because I feel that I'd feel silly whining about a government that I had the chance to vote against. Also our current government tripled our university fees, my educational year being the first one to have these £9k a year fees, which is something completely unjustified, and I feel like I should be voting against this stuff when I get the chance (not that the tories would have ever had my vote in the first place).

The "I'm not interested in politics" argument I've never understood either, your elected government can subtly change a lot of things in your life (even if you don't realize it, or who's making the change), and I tend to be interested in my own life and what might affect it, believe it or not.

 

[RussetRanger]

Amazes me how many people on here don't vote, I would have thought it would be a minority on here, seeing as how... passionate some people on this forum get in their politics.

Maybe they just migrated to this topic in droves. Ergo, they are concentrated around this nape of the woods.

 

[ChildishLegacy]

I'm afraid that you have a wild misconception about what a 3rd world country actually is.

Also talking about "Europeans" as an indistinct whole makes me giggle.

While you are 100% correct in that that guy has absolutely no idea what actually being a 3rd world country actually entails, from everything I've heard he does seem to have some kind of point, insofar as most of Europe is broke. As is most of the rest of the world, for that matter. There are interesting times ahead, which will hopefully end for the better.

hhaahah. The market told us that there is 100% that European countries will go bankrupted. The math don't lie. They can't paid of their debts because European countries do not produce or create wealth, just like third world countries.

Without money their will be no service. Without money their will be no welfare. Without money you have nothing. If you're European I recommend you to stack up on food, water, and ammo because when it happen it will be worst than the Zombie Apocalypse.

Oh wise and wonderful, prophetic economist, how true are your heavenly, knowledgeable words?
Well not very to be honest, your clear lack of global political knowledge is astounding, I don't know where you get your information from or if you just decided to have the opinion that Europe was bankrupt for the fun of it, but you haven't made a single true statement in any of the posts I've seen on this thread.

As far as I know, the US has been hit harder than places like the UK in terms of unemployment etc. by this "recession" (which I don't like calling it, because we're really not in a real recession at the moment), the US having a lot less tax funded welfare for it's citizens than the UK clearly hasn't helped it in any way.

Also Europe is a VERY broad term to use when you're talking about places going bankrupt, places like Germany have their best unemployment figures in years during this "recession" and are progressing at the same rate and living in the same manner as before the "recession", Germany being quite a politically centered state at the moment (if a tiny bit center-right). The only European country that has had any real trouble so far is Greece, which admittedly has been major trouble.

But please, when posting, try to include facts or why you are making these silly assumptions so you don't just sound stubborn and ignorant.

 

[Zack Alklazaris]

I grew up watching the shit storm that Florida made during the Bush/Gore election. I argued with my parents that Bush should be elected because he didn't win the popular vote. As in more people voted for Gore, but because Bush won the electoral vote he got into office.

I still vote, because while I find many aspects of this country disgusting I am still one of its citizens and should do my duty as an American.

Besides I have no right to ***** about a president, when I never voted in their election.

You should be proud. Not much people understand the electoral process, the constitution, and the founding fathers intent.

Maybe I shouldn't thats a typo I meant "shouldn't".

I understand the electoral process now, but at the time I didn't. A kid sees more people vote for one person, but the other one gets in made no sense to me.

 

[USSR]

In the end, it's all very dramatic, and a lot of harsh words are probably said. I think it sounds like a good system.

Aaah, I see. Thank you. Never quite grasped it

 

[Saladfork]

I'm Canadian and I voted for the NDP.

Ironically, despite gaining more seats than they ever had previous, and beating out the liberals and bloc quebecois, two firmly established parties, they actually have less power now than they did before the last election due to the tory majority.

Ah well. I honestly don't think Harper is doing a bad job, per se, I just think it could be done better.

 

[jdun]

no elected official represent the US people as a whole. It wasn't design to.

I'm fairly sure that's part of what the president, and only the president, is for.

Read the constitution of the USA. The President of the USA do not represent or voted into office by the People Of The United State of America. The President is ELECTED BY STATES OFFICIALS. HE IS NOT ELECTED BY POPULAR VOTE. The President represent the STATES and NOT THE PEOPLE.

THE USA IS A REPUBLIC.

 

[jdun]

I'm afraid that you have a wild misconception about what a 3rd world country actually is.

Also talking about "Europeans" as an indistinct whole makes me giggle.

While you are 100% correct in that that guy has absolutely no idea what actually being a 3rd world country actually entails, from everything I've heard he does seem to have some kind of point, insofar as most of Europe is broke. As is most of the rest of the world, for that matter. There are interesting times ahead, which will hopefully end for the better.

hhaahah. The market told us that there is 100% that European countries will go bankrupted. The math don't lie. They can't paid of their debts because European countries do not produce or create wealth, just like third world countries.

Without money their will be no service. Without money their will be no welfare. Without money you have nothing. If you're European I recommend you to stack up on food, water, and ammo because when it happen it will be worst than the Zombie Apocalypse.

Oh wise and wonderful, prophetic economist, how true are your heavenly, knowledgeable words?
Well not very to be honest, your clear lack of global political knowledge is astounding, I don't know where you get your information from or if you just decided to have the opinion that Europe was bankrupt for the fun of it, but you haven't made a single true statement in any of the posts I've seen on this thread.

As far as I know, the US has been hit harder than places like the UK in terms of unemployment etc. by this "recession" (which I don't like calling it, because we're really not in a real recession at the moment), the US having a lot less tax funded welfare for it's citizens than the UK clearly hasn't helped it in any way.

Also Europe is a VERY broad term to use when you're talking about places going bankrupt, places like Germany have their best unemployment figures in years during this "recession" and are progressing at the same rate and living in the same manner as before the "recession", Germany being quite a politically centered state at the moment (if a tiny bit center-right). The only European country that has had any real trouble so far is Greece, which admittedly has been major trouble.

But please, when posting, try to include facts or why you are making these silly assumptions so you don't just sound stubborn and ignorant.

It's all over the fucking news. You have to live in a cave to not notice it.

You want facts. Google Greece debt. The market now predict 98% Greece cannot service it debt in March. In fact the Eurozone want to get rid of Greece in their club.

Now go google PIIGS.

Now go google European bank runs.

Now go google "I recommend panic".

Every financial website is asking when Europe will go 3rd world.

You can go to any financial website or youtube videos telling you how fuck up Europe have became.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/european-bailout-inforgraphic-presenting-truckloads-cash-needed-rescue-insolvent-piigs

 

[jdun]

I grew up watching the shit storm that Florida made during the Bush/Gore election. I argued with my parents that Bush should be elected because he didn't win the popular vote. As in more people voted for Gore, but because Bush won the electoral vote he got into office.

I still vote, because while I find many aspects of this country disgusting I am still one of its citizens and should do my duty as an American.

Besides I have no right to ***** about a president, when I never voted in their election.

You should be proud. Not much people understand the electoral process, the constitution, and the founding fathers intent.

Maybe I shouldn't thats a typo I meant "shouldn't".

I understand the electoral process now, but at the time I didn't. A kid sees more people vote for one person, but the other one gets in made no sense to me.

Again you should be proud of yourself for taking the time to learn how our political system works.

To understand why the system was created like it is you must understand that the USA is made up of 50 NATIONS (13 originally) and a handful of colonies.

Each States in America has their own government. Their own laws. Their own military. Their own culture.

 

[Pebblig]

Might as well vote at least in protest. Such as an obscure party.

http://www.loonyparty.com/about/policy-proposals/

i.e These guys. Interestingly they actually played a role in getting the voting age down from 21 to 18. Now they just take the piss in a fantastic manner.