Doctor Who, Jodie Edition

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Trunkage

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Just wondering how everyone is finding the new season.

Personally, I've been finding it fine, and I like how its going to different parts of the globe. Not a Tom Baker or Tennant level but doing okay
 

Something Amyss

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I'm somewhat torn on it. I like Whitaker's Doctor, but the tone doesn't seem right. It's like slapping Matt Smith into an Eccleston episode. Well, okay, that might have worked with Boom Town, but still.

There have been a couple of good episodes, but I'm still not in love with the series and the only thing I'm sure of here is it's not Jodie's fault because she's been fantastic.
 

madwarper

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I'm done with it.

The show has been going downhill since Davies/Tennant series ended.
Moffat/Smith series was bad, and the Moffat/Capaldi series was atrocious.
And, the Chibnall/Whittaker series has just been boring so far.
 
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Quite liking it taking a more historical approach to the show, with a bit more explanation and thought on the times it goes to rather than "oh hey we're in the past, time to break out the fancy outfits!"
 

Catfood220

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It's ok...its ok...

Ok, Jodie Whittaker is fine as the Doctor. Not great, but fine. I think having the three assistants has not helped her at either. People used to complain about Clara pulling the attention away from the Doctor, but having three people all vying for screen time is even worse. I think starting her out with one companion to begin and letting Whittaker establish her Doctors character, rather than have her have to share screen time with three others is really hurting that.

Mind you, I think the other thing hurting this series is the fact that there has been no real threat to the Doctor or her gang. I mean other than the first episode, who have they faced? Killer cloth, a space racist (seriously this character had potential as a new character who just wanted to screw time up for shits and giggles, some times helping, mostly hindering the Doctor, but nope, space racist, ok bye), big spiders, a cute little gremlin who ended up saving the day and some emo former assassins. None of this has been exciting in the slightest. Maybe its building to something and it'll be worth it in the end, but at the moment I'm not over enthralled.
 

09philj

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It's so tired and creaky. Moffat's seven year trip up his own arse scared away most of the viewers, so it's unsurprising that Chibnall's gone running back to the comfort zone of Russell T Davies' style. The problem is that Chris Chibnall isn't Russell T Davies, and has managed to replicate most of RTD's weaknesses without also matching his strengths. The 13th Doctor is a particularly bland and unoriginal incarnation, and more or less plays like an even more childish and more stupid 10th Doctor, but with even worse acting. Chibnall's also inexplicably opted for three companions, a choice that didn't work in the 1980s when most of the stories were 100 minutes long and works even less well today. Bradley Walsh as Graham is an inspired choice and he's easily the best thing in it, and he's got good chemistry with Tosin Cole's Ryan, which is good because Ryan's not got much going for him otherwise. This leaves Yasmin, played by Mandip Gill, who has thus far served no particular purpose other than providing an excuse for the characters to visit partition era Punjab. Chibnall's decision to write half the episodes and front load almost all of them was also a serious mistake, because Chibnall can't write a good Doctor Who story to save his life and having four out of the first five episodes be written by him quickly dampened most of my enthusiasm for the series. The series opener and the second episode were decent, but Arachnids in the UK ("Let's remake The Green Death, only shit") and The Tsuranga Conundrum were fairly shambolic. Malorie Blackman's episode Rosa was rather good, but was held back by the series' continuing commitment to not including pure historical anymore. The same goes for the last episode, Demons of the Punjab, which also managed to waste squander a properly interesting idea for an alien in the process. None of the monsters or villains have been a properly interesting character or entertaining screen presence. The production design, cinematography and music have been generally excellent this series, but little of it has been aid of truly good writing or acting. The series has three chances left to seriously impress me (the finale has no chance because Chibnall), but only It Takes You Away looks like it's got a hope in hell's chance of doing so.

Also that ghastly new TARDIS interior can die in a fire.
 

Samos205

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Jodie's just meh. Not great, not bad just meh. Feels like shes trying too hard to be like former doctors rather than make the role hers, but maybe that's the writings fault.
Companions are dull and uninteresting, would rather have none than this lot. Hopefully they get replaced next season.
Tardis interiors lame. No cool column in the center console, just a giant rock/crystal. Color scheme is very reminiscent of Tennants tardis too
Writings been dull and steadily getting worse. That's my biggest issue really. The episodes and their antagonists have been really lame and uninspired.
Hopefully they fire the writer and get new companions next season, though I highly doubt it.
 

09philj

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Samos205 said:
Jodie's just meh. Not great, not bad just meh. Feels like shes trying too hard to be like former doctors rather than make the role hers, but maybe that's the writings fault.
Companions are dull and uninteresting, would rather have none than this lot. Hopefully they get replaced next season.
Tardis interiors lame. No cool column in the center console, just a giant rock/crystal. Color scheme is very reminiscent of Tennants tardis too
Writings been dull and steadily getting worse. That's my biggest issue really. The episodes and their antagonists have been really lame and uninspired.
Hopefully they fire the writer and get new companions next season, though I highly doubt it.
Chibnall definitely won't be going unless the viewing figures get worse than Moffat's lowest. Although by my current projections that will be some time in the middle of the next series.
 

Trunkage

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Samos205 said:
Jodie's just meh. Not great, not bad just meh. Feels like shes trying too hard to be like former doctors rather than make the role hers, but maybe that's the writings fault.
Companions are dull and uninteresting, would rather have none than this lot. Hopefully they get replaced next season.
I see every new doctor doing the same thing, even Tennat. They always have to refer back to old Doctors, and... I understand why they do it. Its just becoming tiresome. They do usually stand on their own, but Smith and Capaldi were still too much like their predecessors.


Also, agree about the companions. Worse than Clara though, seemingly the most hated companion of Nu Who?

EDIT: Also hated the whole Rose storyline, particularly from Tennat era. So many companions haven't been that great.
 

Something Amyss

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Catfood220 said:
Ok, Jodie Whittaker is fine as the Doctor. Not great, but fine. I think having the three assistants has not helped her at either. People used to complain about Clara pulling the attention away from the Doctor, but having three people all vying for screen time is even worse. I think starting her out with one companion to begin and letting Whittaker establish her Doctors character, rather than have her have to share screen time with three others is really hurting that.
I think the Clara bit was unfair. Not because I liked her, but because the same complaint was true of every long-term companion (I don't count Jack or Ricky) in Nu Who minus arguably Donna. And even then,m...thedoctordonna. This has been a fundamental part of the show since it was revived, for better or worse. Rose was arguabvly the worst offender, but omgshewasmyfirstcompanioniloverherso so she usually gets a pass.

I mean, I literally prefer every companion so far to Rose, so I don't, but still.

More over, the introduction of romantic companions on the TARDIS heightened tis to an almost Poochie-level effect. Admittedly subverted in some instances, but a big problem in terms of drawing attention away, since even the Doctor was focused. And even without romance, virtually every companion was special, bringing their own mystery box to the table. Off-hand, Rose and Martha may be the only ones who weren't mystery boxes. Donna, Clara, Amy and Rory both, and even some of the temporary companions had this going.

If anything, it's nice to see companions who aren't literally the show's raison d'?tre. At least, so far.

It's a shame I don't find any of them particularly memorable. I hated Rose, but at least I never forgot her name.

That's...honestly my biggest problem with the show. Very little is memorable. Rosa was a standout episode, but the stories, the companions, and the baddies have all just been...meh.

Mind you, I think the other thing hurting this series is the fact that there has been no real threat to the Doctor or her gang. I mean other than the first episode, who have they faced? Killer cloth, a space racist (seriously this character had potential as a new character who just wanted to screw time up for shits and giggles, some times helping, mostly hindering the Doctor, but nope, space racist, ok bye), big spiders, a cute little gremlin who ended up saving the day and some emo former assassins. None of this has been exciting in the slightest. Maybe its building to something and it'll be worth it in the end, but at the moment I'm not over enthralled.
Basically that, but with the stories as well.

Chibnal, said he wanted this to be an entry point for new fans, but they already did this with series 1 and series 5, and both managed to cannibalise exciting villains from the show's past. They also both managed to introduce people without slowing down to explain every little things. I know Doctor Who is a family show, but even kids should find this infantilising at this point. And I know a lot of people don't like Smith, but I maintain his first series is a solid intro to the world of Doctor Who: Moffat edition.

And that's probably what worries me the most., The first series of RTD was basically a sign of things to come. So was the first Moffat series. If this is where things are going, why am I even here?

Mostly because I like Whitaker as the Doctor and I'm waiting for that one killer episode to make me all excited for the series, but I'm also an episode or two behind because Jodie's not enough to make me excited for each new episode.

Moffat wasted a lot of talent. I don't want to see that happen again.
 

Agema

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Jodie Whittaker as the doctor, fine but not yet apparently making the role her own. Forgettable villains. Average thrills. Too many assistants diluting focus. It's all okay, but nothing making it unmissable.

The Rosa Parks episode slipped into annoyingly heavy-handed sermonising. Normally, I find "issues" episodes to be characteristic of a show that's gone on too long and the creators have got too serious or are running out of ideas; so pretty worrying a handful of episodes into a new showrunner.
 

Terminal Blue

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Honestly, it feels like a return to what could questionably pass as "form" for this show, after the awfulness of Moffatt's run and the heavy handed emotional gurning of Rusty's later seasons.

So, this is going to sound weird, but I missed people dying in Doctor Who. In a show where the main character is so powerful, it's difficult to have stakes because you always know the Doctor is going to pull out some bullshit solution which will solve everything. The fact that people die, and we see them die and they don't get immediately brought back by some kind of techno-magic is really important to this show, because it establishes that there are stakes. Sure, the Doctor is going to succeed, but other people might not make it.

I do agree with the general criticism that there are too many companions. This will probably be solved over time by giving them episodes in which they are more prominent, like Demons of the Punjab for Yasmin. Speaking of which, I think everyone's going to focus on the Rosa as the "woke" episode, but Demons of the Punjab is essentially an example of how to do the same thing vastly, vastly better. It feels like a deeply personal episode, rather than the whole "meet your heroes" thing which Doctor Who frankly does too much.

I mean, for me it feels refreshing that I don't come out of each episode feeling like someone's just been jangling keys in my face, and maybe people liked that sort of rapid pace and quote/unquote "big" sci-fi ideas which were absolutely never resolved or used in an interesting way, but me I found it exhausting and trite. Doctor Who has never been a good science fiction show. It's a show about British people having feelings about things, and parts of this season have delivered on that.
 

Natemans

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Personally I'm enjoying it a whole lot.

Jodie's a lot of fun in the role, the companions is pretty entertaining, the production values well done and the new music is pretty great.

I do agree with a couple issues on 2 or 3 episodes for the writing. Arachnids in the U.K. is the only one that's been a dud for me so far. Surprisingly didn't hate the Tsuranga Conundrum like everyone else did. Happy that Yasmin got some nice depth in Demons of the Punjab. I even really liked the new one Kerblam! as a nice mix of classic/new series type of story.

I liked series 10 surprisingly considering how much the show's been letting me down the past couple, but series 11 has kinda made me excited for Doctor Who again.
 
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I'm really enjoying Jodie's Doctor. She does seem to be channeling a bit too much Tennant/Smith into the role at the moment but she has frequently referenced how she is still figuring herself out, so I'm guessing the first series will be a kind of 'homage' series where she deliberately mirrors previous aspects of the Doctor before finally coalescing into Whitaker Doctor in the final few episodes.

I'm not particularly alongside the new-found importance of her companions though. As far back as I remember, the Doctor's companions have been innocent bystanders swept up in the mad-cap life of the Doctor, whereas in this series it kinda seems the other way around. Graham, Ryan and Yas already have their own drama going on, and it feels like the Doctor is just along for the ride, at least for the moment.

The writing, as many have said, still leaves a lot to be desired. To be honest no story, for me, has surpassed the Tennant/Tate character arcs, and since then the series has been stretching itself trying to rekindle the same magic those two had but with little success. I think, as well, with such a long-running series the writers are simply running out of new ground to break. At this point it's almost all been seen and done before, and there seems to be a definite 'scraping-of-the-barrel' going on with the newer episodes.
Killer bubblewrap? Really?!

In conclusion, I would have to say that Whitaker strikes me as another Capaldi - which is to say a brilliant Doctor let down by average companions and bad writing.
 

Something Amyss

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Natemans said:
Surprisingly didn't hate the Tsuranga Conundrum like everyone else did.
I thought it was one of the better episodes.

Grouchy Imp said:
which is to say a brilliant Doctor let down by average companions and bad writing.
You take that back! Nardole is the greatest companion of all time!
 

Agema

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evilthecat said:
Speaking of which, I think everyone's going to focus on the Rosa as the "woke" episode, but Demons of the Punjab is essentially an example of how to do the same thing vastly, vastly better.
It certainly was. That Rosa one set my teeth on edge for when the Demons of the Punjab episode arrived. But that was very nicely handled. It removed to a large extent the simplistic notion of heroes and villains, and addressed the tragedy and complexity of how such tumultuous times tear people apart without it making it an absurdly simply good versus evil morality tale.

And I really quite enjoyed the recent Kablam! episode, which obvious satirises big tech like Amazon, but was mostly well done.
 

Something Amyss

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Agema said:
It certainly was. That Rosa one set my teeth on edge for when the Demons of the Punjab episode arrived. But that was very nicely handled. It removed to a large extent the simplistic notion of heroes and villains, and addressed the tragedy and complexity of how such tumultuous times tear people apart without it making it an absurdly simply good versus evil morality tale.
Regardless of the inanity that Rosa's villain offered, I quite liked the episode. We got to Demons, and the opposite happened. I liked the twist of the villains, but I overall found the episode flat and uninteresting. The ending was killer, but I thought it did a poor job of getting there. I got to that end and thought I'd probably have felt it more if I had for a second felt anything leading up.

One thing I liked n both episodes was that the Doctor had to take a hand to enforce the status quo. It usually seems most of the time the Doctor either fights to restore a positive, or lets a negative happen. The only other example I can think of is the Fires of Pompeii. Between the two, I still have to give the edge to Rosa because she has to be the one to force Rosa, not just watch as events unfold. The Doctor had to play the part of the bad guy and in front of her hero

And I really quite enjoyed the recent Kablam! episode, which obvious satirises big tech like Amazon, but was mostly well done.
Kerblam! was really fun. What I particularly liked ab out it was that it managed to work its messages in without necessarily slowing the plot to a crawl, which has been my issue with several of the new series' episodes up until now.

Side note: I always used to mock BBC for ruining any suspense with their extra-long teasers for the next episode, so I'm glad they stopped doing it, but I've noticed they're now sometimes shorter than the message to click to subscribe on YouTube and now it just seems kinda silly.
 

Natemans

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Agema said:
evilthecat said:
Speaking of which, I think everyone's going to focus on the Rosa as the "woke" episode, but Demons of the Punjab is essentially an example of how to do the same thing vastly, vastly better.
It certainly was. That Rosa one set my teeth on edge for when the Demons of the Punjab episode arrived. But that was very nicely handled. It removed to a large extent the simplistic notion of heroes and villains, and addressed the tragedy and complexity of how such tumultuous times tear people apart without it making it an absurdly simply good versus evil morality tale.

And I really quite enjoyed the recent Kablam! episode, which obvious satirises big tech like Amazon, but was mostly well done.

Kerblam! gave me some nice classic series especially its take on major retail or management corporations.
 

Hawki

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https://screenrant.com/doctor-who-jodie-whittaker-showrunner-exit-2019/

Might be a moot point soon.
 

Canadamus Prime

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I like Jodie Whittaker as The Doctor. What I don't like is that the episodes so far seem to be making really heavy handed statements and it's annoying. Not that I'm against making a statement, Star Trek used to be good at making statements, but they're being really annoying with it. I liked that last episode though, it was more like the kind of thing I want to see out of Doctor Who.