Doctor Who Season 7: Episode 1 - Asylum of the Daleks (SPOILERS)

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Endocrom

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Prediction: He meets Oswin before she joins the Alaska, has some adventures, rights some wrongs, all the usual stuff. Then she leaves and mentions that she's joining a ship called the Alaska, que the Doctor's stoic expression in an empty Tardis as he knows what's in store for her. Camera pans back, fade to black, big 'ol dramatic moment.

Or, depending on how popular she is, she gets cloned or something stupid.
[hr]Dinosaurs... on a SPACESHIP!
 

Lyri

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JackandTom said:
Y'know, I'm tired of the people on The Escapist living in the past. David Tennant is gone and he's not coming back. Asylum of Daleks was great, and I was prepared to be disappointed. I always seem comments like "It used to be better" or "It's going down hill", and not just with Doctor Who. The Escapist community doesn't seem to like anything new. It was a good episode and I seriously doubt anyone saw the twist coming.

Anyway, I liked it. It was awesome.
Congratulations on enjoying the show, your opinion is just that but your argument is completely on a tangent.
I haven't watched the new series yet and I probably will at somepoint but I've been turned off from Dr.Who ever since Steven Moffat took over production.

Encurtidos said:
I agree with JackandTom, it was a good episode! People are just analysing and finding the faults because they can't just sit down and enjoy television anymore. However, many have been critisizing Matt Smith in other threads on the Escapist web sites, but yes, its the nature of the show..move on!!
Yes they can enjoy television but when things that they enjoy is slowly not providing that enjoyment any more they're supposed to say nothing and continue a thread trend of yes men?
Tv is supposed to be talked about and discussed by it's fans, if people aren't talking about a show then you're doing it wrong.
 

Varitel

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I did quite enjoy the premise of the episode, with the Doctor forced to help the Daleks to save himself and his companions. I also thought the girl being a Dalek was a really great twist. There were some pretty good hints up to it that you never would have thought about twice the first time through. The only bad thing about it was that I think Amy and Rory's marital troubles and divorce should have been developed slowly over the course of at least half of a season instead of crammed into the last 20 seconds of a webisode and the first episode of a new season, but that's just me.

As for the Daleks no longer fearing the Doctor, I'm not quite sure why the Doctor was so happy about that. I feel like the fear of the Doctor is one of the few things that kept the remaining Daleks on the defensive.

Josh12345 said:
Yeah I was kind of wondering how all of those Daleks survived the Time War but I guess the Season 5 finale retconned their extinction, it feels kind of cheap and now all they need are the Time Lords to return and the Time War will have been officially pointless.
They were still around in fairly large groups well before the season 5 finale (The Cult of Skaro, the ones in the Genesis Ark at the end of season 2, etc). I think that the ones that survive keep replicating and/or breeding new Daleks. It certainly is possible for them to replicate or reproduce, since there must have been some way that Davros made a whole bunch of them in the first place. Funny enough, the Time War has been officially pointless since the Eccleston season.
 

Baron von Blitztank

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gigastar said:
Ze Snip of Awe!
Gotta admit, you did exceedingly well. Good job, Citizen!
Although some still require some explanation and I'm just going to ask you as some kind of Doctor Who guru.


Why were the Daleks in the Asylum still in their armour?
Cheaper than building a whole new life support platform for the sole purpose of containing insane individuals and a method to transfer them. I would think.
Why would the Daleks be worried about costs?
If they're going to the effort of launching them to another planet then surely they can at least make a few life-support test tubes like the Dalek Prime-Minister is in?


How did Dalek-Oswin still think she was human?
Oswin's conversion occured completely under automated supervision, so its probably that something went wrong because of this.
Fair enough but how did it work in The Parting of The Ways way back in the Season 1 Finale of Nu-Who?
Sure the Dalek Emperor probably would have had more time to fuck around with the creation process and was just creating normal Daleks as opposed to making a Dalek with specific genius-level intellect and that messed with the system but surely the concept of Human-Dalek conversion would have been studied and revised at this point before they tried a Human-Dalek-Genius which could fuck up the entire Dalek race if unchecked.


Why were the Daleks afraid of entering the Asylum?
As mentioned in the episode, Daleks treat hatred like art, art which they would like to keep if possible. For regular Daleks to go down would run the risk of stirring up the hornets nest and resulting in them destroying thousands of pieces of "art".

Not to mention alot of the Daleks on that planet were still armed, pretty much making it a war of attrition
Good point but 70% of the insane Daleks we saw didn't even have guns and even for the ones that do have guns, I'm fairly certain the effect isn't as drastic as much as it is on a Human. Sure it probably would harm the Dalek on the inside but it'd probably just hurt as much as a bullet wound on a human, not instantly fatal but would hurt like fuck. Going with that analogy it does depend on where the human gets shot but here the Daleks have really slow reflexes so by the time they shouted "EggStirMinute" the other less-insane Daleks would be halfway across the room and at that range I doubt they'd be able to hit anything too vital.

Not only that, but the Insano-Daleks only seemed to go apeshit once they found out about The Doctor and Rory which being The Doctor and Human make them enemies of the Dalek race and so to be Exterminated. I'm sure that if a squad of Daleks came in they'd just be happy rusting away talking about Eggs and spinning in place while the squad do their jobs unhindered.

Finally, even if the Insano-Daleks ran the risk of attacking their own kind, there are more than enough Daleks on that ship to do a Zerg Rush and just send in more Daleks than the Insano's could possibly hope to defeat. If the Daleks didn't want to sacrifice their own kind, then why not capture and create a team of Dalek-Human sentries like they have on the ship?



Why haven't the Daleks been shown blowing up whole planets before?
I'm pretty sure they have, but then i havent seen the old series.

Either way, in the new series so far until now, blowing up planets was either completely counter-productive or not the point of their presence there
But why didn't they do that in The Parting of The Ways?
From what I remember of that episode the Emperor didn't care about the Earth anymore after he'd gained a large of Daleks from it's populace so why take slow effort in destroying the place continent at a time when it could have been blown up quicker in its entirety from orbit?

I could pin this down to being that these Daleks would have had better access to weaponry since it's the ship with the Dalek-Parliament onboard and the Emperor had to build everything from scratch. Plus there could have been a load of Dalek-Motherships behind the Parliament-Ship that we didn't see and it's only the Motherships that have the really devastating weaponry and the Emperor only had one Mothership with good thousand odd Battleships but I'm wondering if you have any different ideas for this one.

Ok, that's all. Hope you don't mind clarifying a few extra things for me!



You'll get the rest of the cookie and a song when you're done.
 

Tallim

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This piece which was from a Q&A with Moffat pretty much sums up the way he just doesn't care about canon, even that which he has established himself:

An actual child asked the most difficult question (as ever), putting forward "Do Cybermen go rusty in the rain?"

"No", came the prompt reply, followed by "They're made of plastic. No, they're rain proof. Everything has to be in Wales. But there was a rusty one in The Pandorica Opens, which I wrote...um. Yes, eventually."


It's the lack of consistency that's my biggest gripe about the whole thing.
Interestingly enough, apparently Asylum Of The Daleks was Moffat "making Daleks scary again"...... I have no idea what about any of that episode was supposedly scary.
 

gigastar

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Baron von Blitztank said:
gigastar said:
Ze Snip of Awe!
Gotta admit, you did exceedingly well. Good job, Citizen!
Although some still require some explanation and I'm just going to ask you as some kind of Doctor Who guru.
Oh im no guru, i just type what i remember and fill in the rest from Wikipedia.

Ill take the rest of the praise though, i like a good ego stroking.


Why were the Daleks in the Asylum still in their armour?
Cheaper than building a whole new life support platform for the sole purpose of containing insane individuals and a method to transfer them. I would think.
Why would the Daleks be worried about costs?
If they're going to the effort of launching them to another planet then surely they can at least make a few life-support test tubes like the Dalek Prime-Minister is in?
I think the best counter to this rebuttle is that alot has changed within the Dalek society since the Time War. A prime example being that they have shifted from an empire to having a parliament with a prime-minister.

And during the Time War while the Daleks did number in the trillions, possibly quadrillions, and any resource the Daleks could find or salvage would have gone into replacing lost ships or Daleks, including organic matter.


How did Dalek-Oswin still think she was human?
Oswin's conversion occured completely under automated supervision, so its probably that something went wrong because of this.
Fair enough but how did it work in The Parting of The Ways way back in the Season 1 Finale of Nu-Who?
Sure the Dalek Emperor probably would have had more time to fuck around with the creation process and was just creating normal Daleks as opposed to making a Dalek with specific genius-level intellect and that messed with the system but surely the concept of Human-Dalek conversion would have been studied and revised at this point before they tried a Human-Dalek-Genius which could fuck up the entire Dalek race if unchecked.
In that instance the humans used for conversion were actually dead before conversion. The Dalek Emperor at the time killed the humans, completely rewrote the genetic code in the corpses then stuck them in a test tube then applied lightning until he got more Daleks.

At least thats my interpretation of how he did the full thing. The actual process is probably more complex and involves necromancy.

Why were the Daleks afraid of entering the Asylum?
As mentioned in the episode, Daleks treat hatred like art, art which they would like to keep if possible. For regular Daleks to go down would run the risk of stirring up the hornets nest and resulting in them destroying thousands of pieces of "art".

Not to mention alot of the Daleks on that planet were still armed, pretty much making it a war of attrition
Good point but 70% of the insane Daleks we saw didn't even have guns and even for the ones that do have guns, I'm fairly certain the effect isn't as drastic as much as it is on a Human. Sure it probably would harm the Dalek on the inside but it'd probably just hurt as much as a bullet wound on a human, not instantly fatal but would hurt like fuck. Going with that analogy it does depend on where the human gets shot but here the Daleks have really slow reflexes so by the time they shouted "EggStirMinute" the other less-insane Daleks would be halfway across the room and at that range I doubt they'd be able to hit anything too vital.

Not only that, but the Insano-Daleks only seemed to go apeshit once they found out about The Doctor and Rory which being The Doctor and Human make them enemies of the Dalek race and so to be Exterminated. I'm sure that if a squad of Daleks came in they'd just be happy rusting away talking about Eggs and spinning in place while the squad do their jobs unhindered.

Finally, even if the Insano-Daleks ran the risk of attacking their own kind, there are more than enough Daleks on that ship to do a Zerg Rush and just send in more Daleks than the Insano's could possibly hope to defeat. If the Daleks didn't want to sacrifice their own kind, then why not capture and create a team of Dalek-Human sentries like they have on the ship?
I think you underestimate the numbers that could have been on that plannet.

I mean, the whole world is full of Daleks deemed unfit for military service by the Daleks and they were dumped there throughout the Time War.

Also a Dalek is never unarmed. If thier lasers dont work, thier plungers probably will. If plungers dont work, then set the self-destruct and charge into a crowd of sanes. If the damage caused by any one exploding Dalek is anything like the one we saw blow in the episode, then thats more than enough to at least cripple a sane Dalek.

Then theres the matter of that forcefield, it seems specifically designed to keep Daleks from penetrating it. Which would explain why no insane Daleks escaped over the countless years this place has existed and why the sane Daleks didnt simply go in themselves.

Or there could have been some other eldritch abomination banished to the plannet that we never saw. Possibly could have been a Dalek Supreme or three in there?

Or they could have been stuck contemplating what kind of horror managed to survive despite thier security measures among the hordes of the insane Daleks.

Why haven't the Daleks been shown blowing up whole planets before?
I'm pretty sure they have, but then i havent seen the old series.

Either way, in the new series so far until now, blowing up planets was either completely counter-productive or not the point of their presence there
But why didn't they do that in The Parting of The Ways?
From what I remember of that episode the Emperor didn't care about the Earth anymore after he'd gained a large of Daleks from it's populace so why take slow effort in destroying the place continent at a time when it could have been blown up quicker in its entirety from orbit?

I could pin this down to being that these Daleks would have had better access to weaponry since it's the ship with the Dalek-Parliament onboard and the Emperor had to build everything from scratch. Plus there could have been a load of Dalek-Motherships behind the Parliament-Ship that we didn't see and it's only the Motherships that have the really devastating weaponry and the Emperor only had one Mothership with good thousand odd Battleships but I'm wondering if you have any different ideas for this one.
Ok that simply could have been military sense. If the Daleks simply nuked Earth then nothing would have stopped the Doctor from setting off his shiny new doomsday device and killing them all.
 

TheFederation

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i really did see the twist coming, and am i the only one wondering where all those daleks came from (on the ship) there was only like 5 in the previous series
 

Patrick Buck

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Hated it. Didn't like the nanobots, why don't daleks just flood worlds with them, rather than attacking? Seems like a simpler way to win, and seemingly difficult to stop. Plus the Amy/Rory thing felt forced, and unneeded. And how could that Girl (I forget her name) wipe all knowledge of the Doctor out of the Dalek's minds, but still know about them herself, being a Dalek?

Plus I kinda liked the daleks hating the Doctor, but still, that I could live with. But I really didn't like the episode, and I blame Moffet again. I miss Russel T Davis. I never had a problem with ANY of his episodes, and Even Moffets induvidual ones when Davis was in charge, but Moffet... He seems to be changing the show, and I don't like it. :/

I'm going to carry on watching, but I'm not exactly looking forward to each episode anymore., each one leaves me feeling with a resounding feeling of MEH.
 

lemonadeader

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Vedrenne said:
The only reason I can see for having Amy and Rory still being on the show, if my recollection is correct, is that this is supposedly the last series of Doctor Who with Matt Smith in it. But other than this question, I found the episode to be quite enjoyable.
90% sure Amy and Rory are getting dropped halfway through this season .
 

Gabanuka

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Baron von Blitztank said:
How did these Daleks survive the Time War?
The new breed of Daleks fled after thier last reveal. All the Darleks seen were the modern design from post Time War. We can only assume they've been replenishing their numbers

Baron von Blitztank said:
How did the Daleks capture Amy/Rory onto their ship from Earth? (Sure they were KO'd but someone would have seen the ship)
The Darleks clearly have teleport capabilities, thats what the flash of light was.

Baron von Blitztank said:
Why were the Daleks afraid of entering the Asylum?
They dont want to get shot by the army of insane Darleks

Baron von Blitztank said:
Why were the Daleks in the Asylum still in their armour?
They cant live without it

Baron von Blitztank said:
How did Dalek-Oswin still think she was human?
The human spirit is a powerful thing

Baron von Blitztank said:
Why would a Dalek have access to deleting memories for the ENTIRE Dalek race?
The Darleks are a hivemind, it was named in the episode

Baron von Blitztank said:
Why create an Asylum planet if they're just going to blow it up?
I've forgotten the exact quote but they have a deep love for hatred, they deemed the insane Dalaks to beautiful to be destroyed

Baron von Blitztank said:
Why haven't the Daleks been showing blowing up whole planets before?
They've never had a reason so far

Baron von Blitztank said:
Why does a Dalek have access to classical music? (From EARTH nonetheless)
It was all Oswins dream, she was an entertainment manager so she probably knew a lot of classical music

Baron von Blitztank said:
Why did The Doctor hear Oswin as a human through the intercoms despite being a Dalek?
Never explained but I assume the intercom was crackly and hard to distinguish


Hope that answers everything, even if you had no desire for it to be answered.
 

Zantos

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I just found the whole experience to be underwhelming. It was entertaining, I enjoyed it in parts, but it's well below what I'd expect. I'd be willing to chalk it up as Moffat finding his feet as top dawg if we get an improvement from here on in.

Also, my love of Warhammer 40k may have dulled my enjoyment of the ending, I was all like "*****, please!"

 

Captain Pirate

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Baron von Blitztank said:
Now onto my barrage of questions:
How did these Daleks survive the Time War?
How did the Daleks capture Amy/Rory onto their ship from Earth? (Sure they were KO'd but someone would have seen the ship)
Why were the Daleks afraid of entering the Asylum?
Why were the Daleks in the Asylum still in their armour?
How did Dalek-Oswin still think she was human?
Why would a Dalek have access to deleting memories for the ENTIRE Dalek race?
Why create an Asylum planet if they're just going to blow it up?
Why haven't the Daleks been shown blowing up whole planets before?
Why does a Dalek have access to classical music? (From EARTH nonetheless)
Why did The Doctor hear Oswin as a human through the intercoms despite being a Dalek?

And I'll stop now before my head explodes...
I enjoyed the episode a fair amount, but after reading this.. Yeah.
Just all those questions right there.
Explain, Moffat.
 

doggy go 7

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One thing no-ones brought up yet is that the daleks Self destructed differently (see the first 9th doctor dalek episode)! waddya mean that's something only a fanboy cares about.

Episode was meh at best, knew the twist about an episode before it happened (admittedly thought it was a human one, but still) and Moffat seems to enjoy fucking over the entire Dr who cannon. Also, the daleks saying "dr who" at the end was just annoying, like they're fucking two years old.

The thing is, I really like matt smith's doctor; he's witty and yet sincere. I just no longer think the writing is that good, it's becoming holey, contrived and with that whole "love is magic" mantra, kind of preechy. Love the doctor, just wish he had a better writer.
 

Flamezdudes

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Patrick Buck said:
Hated it. Didn't like the nanobots, why don't daleks just flood worlds with them, rather than attacking? Seems like a simpler way to win, and seemingly difficult to stop. Plus the Amy/Rory thing felt forced, and unneeded. And how could that Girl (I forget her name) wipe all knowledge of the Doctor out of the Dalek's minds, but still know about them herself, being a Dalek?

Plus I kinda liked the daleks hating the Doctor, but still, that I could live with. But I really didn't like the episode, and I blame Moffet again. I miss Russel T Davis. I never had a problem with ANY of his episodes, and Even Moffets induvidual ones when Davis was in charge, but Moffet... He seems to be changing the show, and I don't like it. :/

I'm going to carry on watching, but I'm not exactly looking forward to each episode anymore., each one leaves me feeling with a resounding feeling of MEH.
Crap, another plot hole. Damn it this is making me like the episode a whole lot less...
 

Baron von Blitztank

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gigastar said:
Baron von Blitztank said:
gigastar said:
Ze Snip of Awe!
Gotta admit, you did exceedingly well. Good job, Citizen!
Although some still require some explanation and I'm just going to ask you as some kind of Doctor Who guru.
Oh im no guru, i just type what i remember and fill in the rest from Wikipedia.

Ill take the rest of the praise though, i like a good ego stroking.


Why were the Daleks in the Asylum still in their armour?
Cheaper than building a whole new life support platform for the sole purpose of containing insane individuals and a method to transfer them. I would think.
Why would the Daleks be worried about costs?
If they're going to the effort of launching them to another planet then surely they can at least make a few life-support test tubes like the Dalek Prime-Minister is in?
I think the best counter to this rebuttle is that alot has changed within the Dalek society since the Time War. A prime example being that they have shifted from an empire to having a parliament with a prime-minister.

And during the Time War while the Daleks did number in the trillions, possibly quadrillions, and any resource the Daleks could find or salvage would have gone into replacing lost ships or Daleks, including organic matter.


How did Dalek-Oswin still think she was human?
Oswin's conversion occured completely under automated supervision, so its probably that something went wrong because of this.
Fair enough but how did it work in The Parting of The Ways way back in the Season 1 Finale of Nu-Who?
Sure the Dalek Emperor probably would have had more time to fuck around with the creation process and was just creating normal Daleks as opposed to making a Dalek with specific genius-level intellect and that messed with the system but surely the concept of Human-Dalek conversion would have been studied and revised at this point before they tried a Human-Dalek-Genius which could fuck up the entire Dalek race if unchecked.
In that instance the humans used for conversion were actually dead before conversion. The Dalek Emperor at the time killed the humans, completely rewrote the genetic code in the corpses then stuck them in a test tube then applied lightning until he got more Daleks.

At least thats my interpretation of how he did the full thing. The actual process is probably more complex and involves necromancy.

Why were the Daleks afraid of entering the Asylum?
As mentioned in the episode, Daleks treat hatred like art, art which they would like to keep if possible. For regular Daleks to go down would run the risk of stirring up the hornets nest and resulting in them destroying thousands of pieces of "art".

Not to mention alot of the Daleks on that planet were still armed, pretty much making it a war of attrition
Good point but 70% of the insane Daleks we saw didn't even have guns and even for the ones that do have guns, I'm fairly certain the effect isn't as drastic as much as it is on a Human. Sure it probably would harm the Dalek on the inside but it'd probably just hurt as much as a bullet wound on a human, not instantly fatal but would hurt like fuck. Going with that analogy it does depend on where the human gets shot but here the Daleks have really slow reflexes so by the time they shouted "EggStirMinute" the other less-insane Daleks would be halfway across the room and at that range I doubt they'd be able to hit anything too vital.

Not only that, but the Insano-Daleks only seemed to go apeshit once they found out about The Doctor and Rory which being The Doctor and Human make them enemies of the Dalek race and so to be Exterminated. I'm sure that if a squad of Daleks came in they'd just be happy rusting away talking about Eggs and spinning in place while the squad do their jobs unhindered.

Finally, even if the Insano-Daleks ran the risk of attacking their own kind, there are more than enough Daleks on that ship to do a Zerg Rush and just send in more Daleks than the Insano's could possibly hope to defeat. If the Daleks didn't want to sacrifice their own kind, then why not capture and create a team of Dalek-Human sentries like they have on the ship?
I think you underestimate the numbers that could have been on that plannet.

I mean, the whole world is full of Daleks deemed unfit for military service by the Daleks and they were dumped there throughout the Time War.

Also a Dalek is never unarmed. If thier lasers dont work, thier plungers probably will. If plungers dont work, then set the self-destruct and charge into a crowd of sanes. If the damage caused by any one exploding Dalek is anything like the one we saw blow in the episode, then thats more than enough to at least cripple a sane Dalek.

Then theres the matter of that forcefield, it seems specifically designed to keep Daleks from penetrating it. Which would explain why no insane Daleks escaped over the countless years this place has existed and why the sane Daleks didnt simply go in themselves.

Or there could have been some other eldritch abomination banished to the plannet that we never saw. Possibly could have been a Dalek Supreme or three in there?

Or they could have been stuck contemplating what kind of horror managed to survive despite thier security measures among the hordes of the insane Daleks.

Why haven't the Daleks been shown blowing up whole planets before?
I'm pretty sure they have, but then i havent seen the old series.

Either way, in the new series so far until now, blowing up planets was either completely counter-productive or not the point of their presence there
But why didn't they do that in The Parting of The Ways?
From what I remember of that episode the Emperor didn't care about the Earth anymore after he'd gained a large of Daleks from it's populace so why take slow effort in destroying the place continent at a time when it could have been blown up quicker in its entirety from orbit?

I could pin this down to being that these Daleks would have had better access to weaponry since it's the ship with the Dalek-Parliament onboard and the Emperor had to build everything from scratch. Plus there could have been a load of Dalek-Motherships behind the Parliament-Ship that we didn't see and it's only the Motherships that have the really devastating weaponry and the Emperor only had one Mothership with good thousand odd Battleships but I'm wondering if you have any different ideas for this one.
Ok that simply could have been military sense. If the Daleks simply nuked Earth then nothing would have stopped the Doctor from setting off his shiny new doomsday device and killing them all.
Hmmm... Not quite satisfied but I'll go with that.


 

pilf

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What I really didn't like about this was that Moffat seemed to be mashing together ideas from some of his better stories. Nanogenes turn you from human into a Dalek (The Empty Child), The Doctor encounters a future companion in their final hours (Silence in the Library - River Song). Nothing seemed particularly original and I felt cheated that the Daleks which featured in so much of the hype did not play a larger role in the story.

There were a few great moments and Jenna Louise Coleman looks as though she will be brilliant come Christmas but this was a rather poor opener to the series.