I think what they were getting at was that he is the real ninth doctor (with Eccelston being the actual tenth) who apparently was forgotten because he committed some heinous war crimes or some such thing.Encurtidos said:
Doctor Who Series 7.13 - The Name of the Doctor (Spoilers, Obviously)
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I guess it depends on whether he is worthy of the title. "The Doctor" isn't his name; it's a title. A title he took for himself. If John Hurt's incarnation of the time lord did things that warranted him being stripped of that title, even if he stripped himself of it, it would make sense.Encurtidos said:
He's that certain time lord, he just doesn't get to be called "The Doctor: The Man Who Makes People Better"
As the previous poster said, The Doctor is a title, not a name. John Hurt is "Insert The Doctor's Real Name Here", by blood and what not. He is him, but the rest of the regenerations, and possibly by himself as well, he isn't The Doctor.Encurtidos said:
It's like saying, I am Nicholas Kling, but for a while, I wasn't Klown anymore. Klown is a title I gave myself for my video games and what not. During a year or so, I was no longer Klown because everything that I did was against what Klown stands for. My name of Nicholas didn't change, I was still me, but I no longer was the standard at which I hold myself too.
no.. just no.Frieswiththat said:
John Hurt isn't the 'real ninth Doctor', he's the 9th incarnation of the time lord known as the Doctor a small but important distinction that 11 himself makes, the acts to end the Time War that the John Hurt time lord (could possibly be the Valeyard incarnation/personality in an earlier appearance thus answering the GI's & Trial of time lord's introduction of a potentially evil version of the Doctor ) broke the promise he made to himself when he choose the name 'Doctor' and that means he isn't The Doctor, obviously associated media will call John Hurts Doctor "The Doctor" to avoid confusion.
Though I'm sure the 50th anniversery will in some degree attempt to absolve The Hurt Doctor incarnation.
Exactly.Soulrender95 said:
He did things that made him unworthy of the title, therefore he isn't "The Doctor". He is still the same time lord, but he doesn't get that title.
I don't think it will be the Valeyard, though. That was an evil version of the 12th Doctor. John Hurt is playing the actual 9th incarnation of the time lord known as "The Doctor".
This was the best series finale that the show has ever done; it made complete sense and we get a tease as to how the Time War ended and how horrific it was. Doctor Who lore just got given a shot of steroids which seems to have been Moffat's aim with the series and his time as head,in general; from The Great Intelligence to the Ice warriors to homoreptilia.
The second half of the series has been perfect. The show was fading into irrelevance whilst they were stuck with the convoluted Pond mess. They've turned it around.
The second half of the series has been perfect. The show was fading into irrelevance whilst they were stuck with the convoluted Pond mess. They've turned it around.
Isn't there a prophecy that doctor #13 is evil? Something about that incarnation is Terrifying to the Dr and he doesn't want to have to regenerate into him.
Since the doctor seems to be aware of his future (and has seen his entire timeline) then he knows about 13 and what he's like, and he hates it.
I prefer it to a 'missing regeneration' that's not talked about, Clara saw all 11 doctors but not him, implying he comes later.
Since the doctor seems to be aware of his future (and has seen his entire timeline) then he knows about 13 and what he's like, and he hates it.
I prefer it to a 'missing regeneration' that's not talked about, Clara saw all 11 doctors but not him, implying he comes later.
I believe that is the Valeyard. It's a version of the 12th Doctor that is a personified combination of all the darkness the Doctor has within him.Karma168 said:
I thought that too, but it seems Moffat has already confirmed that John Hurt is playing the actual 9th Doctor.
When I said he's kinda meant to be the 'real ninth doctor', I was referring to the character as a whole, not necessarily the title. Partly because it's just a lot more succinct to call him 'the Doctor' rather than 'the forgotten ninth incarnation of the particular Time Lord who in all other incarnations but this one is known as the Doctor', and partly because I forgot, due to it being a relatively small detail thrown in in the last five minutes. I probably would've made the distinction had I known I was going to have my head bitten off for saying calling him 'the Doctor'.Soulrender95 said:
Concerning various panic theories about the special: let's not forget at the first script reading David Tennant stood up and applauded. If the man who almost failed school for being too much of a DW fanboy thinks it's brilliant it can't be too bad.
Also, that "introducing" thing was awful. Felt like they stole it off a spaghetti western. We didn't need any "introducing Timothy Dalton as Rassilon", why are we now suddenly too stupid to handle a bit of mystery?
Apart from that the episode was good. Solid end to this overall weak season. The Clara mystery seemed a bit anticlimatic though after all the brilliant fan theories.
Also, that "introducing" thing was awful. Felt like they stole it off a spaghetti western. We didn't need any "introducing Timothy Dalton as Rassilon", why are we now suddenly too stupid to handle a bit of mystery?
Apart from that the episode was good. Solid end to this overall weak season. The Clara mystery seemed a bit anticlimatic though after all the brilliant fan theories.
That's... true.Quaxar said:
Of course, the only thing about the special that I've been uneasy about is the messing up the continuity, which depending on how they play it, I might be fine with. I'm still excited for it.
Yeah, the introducing thing was bad. I thought it was quite obvious that he was the Doctor, or some other version of the Doctor. Either they did it for the casual fans who are, apparently, too thick to pick up on that, or they did it for dramatic effect. Either way, they could have done without it.
I like how he said he wasn't The Doctor and then straight away it went:Berithil said:
John Hurt = The Doctor
didn't The Doctor JUST say is was him but NOT The Doctor.? Kinda contradicts the point.
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Anyway I'm looking forward to seeing John Hurt.
Sigh, this episode embodied pretty much everything that makes me wonder why I'm still watching. Moffat really needs to be replaced as show runner. I'm getting tired of everything being "space magic!". Doctor Who, as I remember it, was frequently outlandish, featured things which may never be possible, but the show managed some kind of internal consistency and limited the logical contrivances required to achieve it's plot. To put it lightly, this show has thrown suspension of disbelief out the window.Berithil said:
The episode itself is some of the worst paced television I've ever seen. The Docto-
Actually fuck it, this is making me angry just writing it. I'm out.
Err I don't what show you have been watching but in the 30 odd years that I have, its never had internal consistency. If you want that go watch another show, you are not going to get that on Dr Who. There are over 675 hours of TV of which there are about 20 hours missing and quite a few of the early writers are dead. Just how are you going to get internal consistency under those circumstances? Just because RTD did something like that for 4 series does not mean the other 26 seasons are like that. I would suggest that using the same methodology that caused the show to last for 26 years might be a better idea than copying the way it was done for 4 years.Daft Time said:
I do agree that Moffat isn't all that great as a showrunner. He was much better writing one off episodes during RTD's run, of which his episodes are some of my favorite Who stories.Daft Time said:
That said, the show is about an eccentric, immortal time alien who travels through time and space in a blue police box that's bigger on the inside. IMO, it's kind of hard for the show to be too outlandish. I'm personally more tired of the "emotions conquer the day" thing.
Er, hey? Surely they live until something kills them, in which case they get a set number of re-tries, unless someone resets it for them?Little Woodsman said:
I am a bit disappointed that apparently evidence is suggesting John Hurt's character is the Time War Doctor, rather than the Valeyard from the 6th Doctor's last major story arc. But who knows, maybe he'll find some way to hint at it. But, I'm not really bothered by the idea of changing the "order" of the 9th, 10th, and 11th Doctors, so to speak. They still are who they are. Their performances are and always shall remain the same, so pretending that this guy somehow "dishonors" them before we even know exactly how he fits in just seems silly.
But like you said, the whole "emotions save the world" thing is getting a bit old. I feel like Moffat isn't quite as bad as RTD with it, but considering how much more complicated Moffat's storylines are it begins to feel like a cheap way out. Regarding this episode specifically, the only place I really felt it was the whole Doctor being able to see River thing. I feel like a real explanation wouldn't have been that difficult, rather than just going with "The Doctor loves her so much he can see her, even though she's only a projection inside Clara's mind." Otherwise, I was rather tickled at this episode, and I'm really glad they jumped right back into the Trenzelor bit. There's been a lot of foreshadowing going on, we really didn't need any more before getting there.
Also, there is one thing I'm confused about. Is this the last time we're going to see River, then? In the Library episode, she mentioned the last time she saw the Doctor was when he turned up on her doorstep with a new suit and a haircut. He took her to a place called Derillium, they saw some singing towers, he cried, and he wouldn't tell her why. It would seem the River that appeared as a projection in this episode was in fact the River which is preserved in the Library, not the "real" River. But, the Doctor asked her to fade (meaning truly die and no longer exist even in the Library), and it would seem that's exactly what she did (but considering who she is it's very likely she didn't do what he asked), so now it seems that version of River is dead.
I'm confused because I was sort of expecting that Derillium situation was going to be mentioned at some point, or at least hinted at. It's clear they haven't forgotten what was said in that episode because they referred directly to what transpired in it in this episode. And technically, the Doctor didn't say goodbye to the real River, only the virtual one. So it's possible the real River is still running around somewhere, and the Doctor might still take her to Derillium. Because even though that's the last time the Doctor will see virtual River, it's not the last time he sees that River. So...yeah. A bit confused about that.
Anyway, I think I'm with you on this one. Moffat has left a number of plot holes in his wake, especially this series, but I really don't mind most of the ideas going on. The idea that he married his friend's baby whom said friends grew up with, the idea that there's been a girl wandering throughout all of his life nudging him into making the right choices, the idea that the Doctor can enter his time-stream which has some semblance of a physical interior...it's all convoluted and spacey-wacey, but if there's any place convoluted and spacey-wacey storylines belong it's in Doctor Who.Berithil said:
But like you said, the whole "emotions save the world" thing is getting a bit old. I feel like Moffat isn't quite as bad as RTD with it, but considering how much more complicated Moffat's storylines are it begins to feel like a cheap way out. Regarding this episode specifically, the only place I really felt it was the whole Doctor being able to see River thing. I feel like a real explanation wouldn't have been that difficult, rather than just going with "The Doctor loves her so much he can see her, even though she's only a projection inside Clara's mind." Otherwise, I was rather tickled at this episode, and I'm really glad they jumped right back into the Trenzelor bit. There's been a lot of foreshadowing going on, we really didn't need any more before getting there.
Also, there is one thing I'm confused about. Is this the last time we're going to see River, then? In the Library episode, she mentioned the last time she saw the Doctor was when he turned up on her doorstep with a new suit and a haircut. He took her to a place called Derillium, they saw some singing towers, he cried, and he wouldn't tell her why. It would seem the River that appeared as a projection in this episode was in fact the River which is preserved in the Library, not the "real" River. But, the Doctor asked her to fade (meaning truly die and no longer exist even in the Library), and it would seem that's exactly what she did (but considering who she is it's very likely she didn't do what he asked), so now it seems that version of River is dead.
I'm confused because I was sort of expecting that Derillium situation was going to be mentioned at some point, or at least hinted at. It's clear they haven't forgotten what was said in that episode because they referred directly to what transpired in it in this episode. And technically, the Doctor didn't say goodbye to the real River, only the virtual one. So it's possible the real River is still running around somewhere, and the Doctor might still take her to Derillium. Because even though that's the last time the Doctor will see virtual River, it's not the last time he sees that River. So...yeah. A bit confused about that.
David Tennant#s was the one I picked out the easiest, possibly because of my totally understandable crushZhadramekel said: