Does a game have to be rated M to be successful and have a good story?

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CaptJohnSheridan

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Does a video game have to be M rated to have a good story?

Should there be games of AAA quality aimed at younger audiences or does the vast majority of parents don?t care?

Horizon Zero Dawn and Spider Man were huge successes!

Should Disney get back into game development and bring us the Pixar of video games?
 

Chimpzy_v1legacy

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CaptJohnSheridan said:
Does a video game have to be M rated to have a good story?
No. Games are rated M for having one or more of the following: intense/realistic depictions of violence, blood, gore, sexual themes and content, partial nudity, and frequent use of strong language.

You don't need to have any of those to tell a good story.
Should there be games of AAA quality aimed at younger audiences or does the vast majority of parents don?t care?
Yes. I only really have anecdotal evidence for it from gamer parents I know, but I believe high quality games that parents and their kids can enjoy together is a somewhat underserved market, outside of Nintendo and Traveller's Tales (i.e. Lego) games.
Should Disney get back into game development?
They tried already and the results were resoundingly meh. Pretty sure they have little interest in the AAA industry anymore outside of licensing some of their IPs to existing publishers/developers. Sometimes that worked out (Capcom, Square), sometimes it did't (EA).

the Pixar of video games?
Arguably already exists. It's called Nintendo. Disney is welcome to try though.
 
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CaptJohnSheridan said:
Should there be games of AAA quality aimed at younger audiences or does the vast majority of parents don?t care?
I'm not a parent, but I have the responsibilities of one in many ways. It's a complicated family situation, but we have a 6 y/o boy and 9 y/o boy in the household and while I'm a lifelong gamer and IT pro, kid suitable games isn't easy. I'll tell you my experiences in this regard, perhaps as a point of discussion.

Before I say anything, I'm going to please ask anyone who says "kids should be able to play anything", because, like me, we hate restrictions, boundaries and censorship, while I agree for adults, with kids it's a different story and until you have to decide yourself, it's easy to say "censorship", "restrictions", etc. Please discuss my points, not this issue. Kids do need restrictions for multiple reasons, it's just reality.

That out of the way, when you say AAA it's hard to know what that means. In old money, AAA used to mean highly-polished, high quality, well developed title. Today, it just means any $60 box sold by EA, Ubi, ActiBlizz and Squeenix. They can sell an unpolished, unfinished, bug-ridden game and it will still be called AAA. So ignoring those, and focusing on high polish etc...the answer is...not really important.

First of all, the boys mostly game in either a) ipads or b) my old 360. In BOTH cases I refuse to allow them to play anything online and no in-app purchases. I have no issue with online games directly, the issue is games which specifically allow interaction with other players. They are too young to be exposed to toxic online chat, trash talk, and mainly the fear of adults striking up conversations with them. I would have no objection to them playing online with school friends, peers or known friends/family, but with strangers it's a no-no. Funny enough, the 9y/o tells me most of his classmates are playing Fortnite already, which I won't allow him.

Next topic is violence. Interestingly, when the elder one was like 3-5 and would sit on my lap while I played Skyrim, I had no issue with him watching. At that point he was too young to get disturbed by what was going on and he loved the spectacle of changing into a werewolf and sending bandits flying. After 6 or so, gory imagery is a no-no. After 12 I think it'll be find to watch Predator, Robocop, whatever, but right now, these middle-years, imagery like Skyrim deathcams could have a real negative and/or long-lasting effect, from a bedtime nightmare through a lifelong, uncomfortable memory.

Story really is irrelevant. Completely. Kids have absolutely zero interest in a game's story and won't remember or understand a complex plot. Things like Star Wars Lego, where they've seen the film and the game lets them play out iconic scenes/locations from it they will follow, but that's because of the film and even then they're more interested in gameplay and imagery. A lightsaber and C3PO is enough for them, and combining it with sound effects and the rest is all that's needed.

Controls need to be fairly straightforward too and it helps if they follow conventions (ie. right stick camera, left stick move, etc). Games that are really good are things like Minecraft where they can build and use imagination, but some others I like are Overcooked, racing games or platformers. If I could describe what a perfect kids game would be it should have a minimal failure state that maybe gets harder with progress, simple to learn rules and intuitive controls, cartoon-ish violence only, colourful visuals, non-offensive sound design and a short gameplay loop (ie. no half hour dungeons) so it can be played in short or long bursts. It must also be playable offline.

Lego games are great in most regards because they combine familiar, kid friendly settings like Batman, Star Wars, Harry Potter or LotR with forgiving failure state, rewarding over time (persistent unlocks, etc) and easy-ish rules. My biggest complaint with them is that I cannot often work out how to progress when they get stuck and ask for help. It should be easier to find puzzle solutions.

So that's my main thoughts on games for kids. AAA is irrelevant, story is irrelevant. Simple rules, colourful visuals and good sound/visual feedback, simple controls and rewarding without being too punishing. A short gameplay loop is best, especially when it's bedtime. Would love to hear others thoughts on games for kids, especially recommendations!
 

Casual Shinji

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Do children care about a good story? Childrens media can have good story, but seeing as the target audience just wants to have fun with the game (or movie) there's not too much incentive. I doubt a Naughty Dog styled game primarily aimed at kids would work, since they'd probably get bored by all the story bits.

We have the Kingdom Hearts series which I guess is the game rating equivalent of PG-13, and filled to the brim with Disney stuff. I don't know how much 10-year olds are into that though, what with it being as cutscene heavy as it is. They'd probably rather just play Fortnite.
 
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As an ADULT, I would prefer an M rated game just because it means the director can tell any story they want, including adult themes, without having to compromise anything to satisfy a lower rating. I don't necessarily mean gore, OTT violence, etc, but just to be able to tell a story without compromising the setting, visuals, language, etc.

Saying that, many great stories come out of more universal games. Adventure games come to mind, like Monkey Island, Grim Fandango, etc. I just looked at my boxed games and Tron 2.0 and SW: Jedi Knight/Academy are all rated 12 and have great stories too. So no, an M Rating is not necessary, nor is it a guarantee, but if it means no compromising then I'd take an M-rating over a blander, safer approach.

Brilliant topic by the way, will be interesting to see if it gets a good discussion going.
 

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CaptJohnSheridan said:
Does a video game have to be M rated to have a good story?
No.

Should there be games of AAA quality aimed at younger audiences or does the vast majority of parents don?t care?
They already exist (e.g. Mario). There's plenty of other stuff for kids as well (Minecraft, Lego, Skylanders, etc.)

Horizon Zero Dawn and Spider Man were huge successes!
Neither of which are kids' games.

Should Disney get back into game development and bring us the Pixar of video games?
Dunno.

There's various Disney IPs that are well suited for games, but outsourcing aside, if they're going to be made, make them good, not Disney Infinity (granted, kids seem to seem to love that stuff).
 

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If the OP user could just once respond or reply to anything said on their vaguely worded question they post on here, for once , I would happily stop being suspicious of them not being anything other than an algorithm. I feel like I'm going crazy for being the only one noticing this.
 

CaptJohnSheridan

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KingsGambit said:
CaptJohnSheridan said:
Should there be games of AAA quality aimed at younger audiences or does the vast majority of parents don?t care?
I'm not a parent, but I have the responsibilities of one in many ways. It's a complicated family situation, but we have a 6 y/o boy and 9 y/o boy in the household and while I'm a lifelong gamer and IT pro, kid suitable games isn't easy. I'll tell you my experiences in this regard, perhaps as a point of discussion.

Before I say anything, I'm going to please ask anyone who says "kids should be able to play anything", because, like me, we hate restrictions, boundaries and censorship, while I agree for adults, with kids it's a different story and until you have to decide yourself, it's easy to say "censorship", "restrictions", etc. Please discuss my points, not this issue. Kids do need restrictions for multiple reasons, it's just reality.

That out of the way, when you say AAA it's hard to know what that means. In old money, AAA used to mean highly-polished, high quality, well developed title. Today, it just means any $60 box sold by EA, Ubi, ActiBlizz and Squeenix. They can sell an unpolished, unfinished, bug-ridden game and it will still be called AAA. So ignoring those, and focusing on high polish etc...the answer is...not really important.

First of all, the boys mostly game in either a) ipads or b) my old 360. In BOTH cases I refuse to allow them to play anything online and no in-app purchases. I have no issue with online games directly, the issue is games which specifically allow interaction with other players. They are too young to be exposed to toxic online chat, trash talk, and mainly the fear of adults striking up conversations with them. I would have no objection to them playing online with school friends, peers or known friends/family, but with strangers it's a no-no. Funny enough, the 9y/o tells me most of his classmates are playing Fortnite already, which I won't allow him.

Next topic is violence. Interestingly, when the elder one was like 3-5 and would sit on my lap while I played Skyrim, I had no issue with him watching. At that point he was too young to get disturbed by what was going on and he loved the spectacle of changing into a werewolf and sending bandits flying. After 6 or so, gory imagery is a no-no. After 12 I think it'll be find to watch Predator, Robocop, whatever, but right now, these middle-years, imagery like Skyrim deathcams could have a real negative and/or long-lasting effect, from a bedtime nightmare through a lifelong, uncomfortable memory.

Story really is irrelevant. Completely. Kids have absolutely zero interest in a game's story and won't remember or understand a complex plot. Things like Star Wars Lego, where they've seen the film and the game lets them play out iconic scenes/locations from it they will follow, but that's because of the film and even then they're more interested in gameplay and imagery. A lightsaber and C3PO is enough for them, and combining it with sound effects and the rest is all that's needed.

Controls need to be fairly straightforward too and it helps if they follow conventions (ie. right stick camera, left stick move, etc). Games that are really good are things like Minecraft where they can build and use imagination, but some others I like are Overcooked, racing games or platformers. If I could describe what a perfect kids game would be it should have a minimal failure state that maybe gets harder with progress, simple to learn rules and intuitive controls, cartoon-ish violence only, colourful visuals, non-offensive sound design and a short gameplay loop (ie. no half hour dungeons) so it can be played in short or long bursts. It must also be playable offline.

Lego games are great in most regards because they combine familiar, kid friendly settings like Batman, Star Wars, Harry Potter or LotR with forgiving failure state, rewarding over time (persistent unlocks, etc) and easy-ish rules. My biggest complaint with them is that I cannot often work out how to progress when they get stuck and ask for help. It should be easier to find puzzle solutions.

So that's my main thoughts on games for kids. AAA is irrelevant, story is irrelevant. Simple rules, colourful visuals and good sound/visual feedback, simple controls and rewarding without being too punishing. A short gameplay loop is best, especially when it's bedtime. Would love to hear others thoughts on games for kids, especially recommendations!
Kids? How about teens? I had friend in High School who really loved Mass Effect. It was only until after High School I got into that series.
 

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Do most M rated games even have good stories? I thought most games with really good stories tended to be rated T or E. Sure there are some M rated games with great stories but not a ton are coming to mind.

We also already have the "pixar" of video games, its called Undertale and its amazing.
 

Dreiko_v1legacy

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The main rating that you want for max appeal is T cause it lets everyone experience it. Most kids will be allowed to play it and not every successful game is one where its story makes sense to have super graphic content. For example final fantasy and dragon quest never got anything above a T rating and are extremely successful despite that and also have great stories.


I think if you focus too much on whether a game is gonna be T or M rated you're missing the point. It's better to just make the game you wanna make and see where it ends up belonging by the end.
 
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CaptJohnSheridan said:
Kids? How about teens? I had friend in High School who really loved Mass Effect. It was only until after High School I got into that series.
I mean I will have a better answer for that in four years. I have a current-gen console but don't pay for the online and I'm in two minds as to whether a gaming PC is a good idea...my young cousin for his 13th we actually built a gaming PC for him and I it was fine (tho I trust him a lot more than the 9 and 6 y/os).

To be honest, after 12-13 years old, I don't really mind that much what they play, even M-rated. Perhaps not the really obscene, horrific or violent, but for the most part, sure. Online interactions is a different thing because grooming and cyberbullying are sadly real things and there are some real pieces of work out there. I'm more afraid of social networks than online games to be fair but since I'll prob be doing most of the purchasing, I'll try to stick them to either offline or coop games. I don't care about violence after 12-13, they'll be old enough that it goes from disturbing to "cool" or gross.

I'll have to start looking into parental controls for stuff soon. Restricting computer time, blocking inappropriate web sites, the Internet is a pretty awful place. The biggest issue I think for a teen wouldn't be a game's content, but more addiction and regulating computer time so they are able to still be social, eat dinner, bathe, do physical/extra curricular activities, homework, etc. If these kids turn out to be good mannered teens who listen when they're told it's time for dinner/homework, I'd be more inclined to let them have more freedom since they can be trusted with it. I don't think it's likely tho

CaptJohnSheridan said:
I think if you focus too much on whether a game is gonna be T or M rated you're missing the point. It's better to just make the game you wanna make and see where it ends up belonging by the end.
I would strongly disagree here. I think with making a game, as with making a movie, if you don't know your target audience and have a firm idea for how it will play out, it's a recipe for failure. Games without a clear direction and creative vision end up being bland and forgettable, just the same as those that are rushed, designed by committee or made for "mass market appeal". Maybe you can get away with that approach on a small indie title, tho I think indie games in general are much more focused than their big budget contemporaries. I think "just making a game and seeing where it ends up" would be an absolutely disastrous approach to design, be it a game, film or book. Maybe a book could work, but not the other two.
 

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Worgen said:
We also already have the "pixar" of video games, its called Undertale and its amazing.
*blink* That...really doesn't make sense. You're drawing equivalence between a single title and a studio of content producers. I could understand if you were to draw comparison between Undertale and a given film, or a given game development team and Pixar, but to say that a game is the equivalent of a studio?
 

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Worgen said:
We also already have the "pixar" of video games, its called Undertale and its amazing.
I really loved Undertale(and am constantly hinting to other people that they should try it so I can discuss it with them) but it's not exactly a kids game. It just looks like one. It deals with a lot of really dark themes(child murder, genocide, etc) but it has a cutesy artstyle that kind of hides that fact.

Just like I wouldn't say A Night in the Woods is a kids game despite the fact it totally looks like one.

And as someone else said, one game isn't the same as a studio.
 

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Dreiko said:
The main rating that you want for max appeal is T cause it lets everyone experience it. Most kids will be allowed to play it and not every successful game is one where its story makes sense to have super graphic content. For example final fantasy and dragon quest never got anything above a T rating and are extremely successful despite that and also have great stories.


I think if you focus too much on whether a game is gonna be T or M rated you're missing the point. It's better to just make the game you wanna make and see where it ends up belonging by the end.
This. Just because a game is M-Rated doesn't mean the story will be good. Hell, most M-rated games have shlocky, crappy, or mediocre stories. The best story from games tend to be from E or T rated games, not that they're immune to bad storytelling either.
 

Johnny Novgorod

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CaptJohnSheridan said:
Does a video game have to be M rated to have a good story?
Maybe more often than not because the M rating is a lot less restrictive with its subject matter but there're plenty of T-rated games that have good stories.
 

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I prefer board games ... so no, to both. Though I will say Gloomhaven tellsa better a story than 99.99999999% of videogames without even bothering to pretend like the 'story' isn't anything more than just, at best, choose your own adventure ...
 

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Xsjadoblayde said:
If the OP user could just once respond or reply to anything said on their vaguely worded question they post on here, for once , I would happily stop being suspicious of them not being anything other than an algorithm. I feel like I'm going crazy for being the only one noticing this.
Does it matter? B-Cell could also almost be called an algorithm for their provocative posts but I'd rather have something stirring discussion than no discussion at all.

As to the topic... I dunno. I got exposed to plenty of kids stuff as a child that certainly didn't pull punches like The Land Before Time, and An American Tale. Heck, even the original live action TMNT movie has moments in it that are treated very seriously despite the humor and goofiness that is also mixed in.

For games, things like Earthbound had a lot of childish and comedic elements in them but it didn't stop it from also going into darker subjects nor from being a good, if relatively basic, game.

I think there's plenty of games still coming out that are designed to be consumable by a younger audience while still being good or having serious moments.
 

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CaptJohnSheridan said:
Should there be games of AAA quality aimed at younger audiences or does the vast majority of parents don?t care?
Even if the parents don't care; younger audiences deserve good games too. Otherwise, how will they recognize a good game when they grow up?
 

CaitSeith

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KingsGambit said:
Ruining a good story by hard-boiling it to get it M-rated, is also a bad compromise that happened frequently. Besides, even M-rated have its boundaries that would mutilate AO stories like Song of Saya (for better or for worse).