Sorry for the confusion, it seems the only examples I could think of were evil... but I'm talking about generally unlikable, unrelatable protagonists.theSovietConnection said:
Does a Protagonist have to be likable?
- Thread starter Azure-Supernova
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Ahh, okay. Then yes, it is quite easy to have a protaganist as such. I generally find most of the "oh woe is me" protaganists that whine and ***** all the time very unlikeable.Azure-Supernova said:
I do like the main character to be likeable, at the very least relatable in their assholeness... That is not to say they have to be good, or even have redeemable characteristics, but at least give me a reason for him to be evil, and some more other evil characters to consider the antagonists.
But your milage may vary... I don't like main characters like Dexter or Light (mostly because they are far more evil than the antagonists, and never given a reason why should a root for them), but it is obvious many people believe they are good protagonists. Evil protagonists is an extended trophe (see Hannibal, Darth Vader, American Psycho, etc), but they never resonate with me, as I see them as the protagonist because the writer thought they are far more interesting than other characters.
But your milage may vary... I don't like main characters like Dexter or Light (mostly because they are far more evil than the antagonists, and never given a reason why should a root for them), but it is obvious many people believe they are good protagonists. Evil protagonists is an extended trophe (see Hannibal, Darth Vader, American Psycho, etc), but they never resonate with me, as I see them as the protagonist because the writer thought they are far more interesting than other characters.
Eventually. A protagonist doesn't have to be likable right at the start but there should be some character development along the way that makes the audience like them in the end.
See Luke fon Fabre from Tales of the Abyss as the perfect example.
See Luke fon Fabre from Tales of the Abyss as the perfect example.
Is it possible that the player could come to like them for reasons other then heroism?Arisato-kun said:
Well generally it's nice if the protagonist makes you want to be on their side. I guess that's the whole point. But not all of them are like that. As in, not all are completely likeable. Take Batman. He isn't the most generic of heroes. And a lot of characters are all dark and gritty with a shady past, and that just adds to the story.
Holden Caulfield would be impossible to be around, Humbert Hombert is a Horribly Horrible guy, and every main character in the First Law trilogy is in some way a bad person. Yet still all the books where these people appear make for awesome reading.
Okay, I'll correct you. The Darth Bane series do this.Azure-Supernova said:
Nope, I don't think they have to be the "ideal hero" to be a protagonist. In fact, the protagonist can be a filthy, slimy criminal responsible for many crimes. As long as a character is the target of the antagonist's aggression and the whole world seems to follow him/her; he/she is a protagonist. I can't think of any examples right now but I'm fairly positive I've read a book like that.
Weird, I always want the bad guys to win. It's usually the perfect goody-two-shoes who gets on my nerves.
*thinks back on watching School Days* Nope, sometimes a protagonist you absolutely hate ends up working out REALLY well...
On the Likable + unrelatable subject, they'll most likely still be interested in the character development since they like the character. And concerning Dislikable + unrelatable, Scott Pilgrim. I can't relate to him, and he's a jerk, but he's still amusing to read about.zipzod said:
sure the protaginist has to be likable, but it could be that you like his personality, even if he burns villages of kittens and children and leaves one five year old child alive and makes him wear his father's decapitated head... {See LoadingReadyRun for more information if you haven't already seen the episode}
It all depends on the kind of story you are telling. After all the protagonist is usually either the key player that we are focusing on in a story or the person to whom the plot revolves around.
If we are trying to make a clear 'good guys versus bad guys' plot then it pays to have the protagonist be likable because it helps us sympathize with them better.
Although 'likable' doesn't necessarily mean the same thing as 'good', in some cases 'likable' can just mean we empathize with the characters without necessarily agreeing with their actions.
For me one such example is Wikus from District 9 because even though he's a massive jerk throughout the whole thing he was able to be embraced because of the realization that his selfish actions in a survival situation are probably what a lot of us would do in this situation and because he kind of redeems himself at the end.
But still sometimes a protagonist can be a heartless evil ruthless bastard with no redeeming qualities whatsoever, yet the audience is still engaged by them because they are so fascinating.
Case in point: The Devil's Rejects
This is a movie about a family of psychotic killers who are now on the run from the state police. Now these killers bruatlise, murder and torment their victims sadistically and so I'll be damned if I'm going to root for them, I hoped they would die horribly.
And yet, they are fascinating. They are the charismatic villain, we are horrified by what they do but we can't look away and despite all the murder and mayhem it is clear that they do love each other, like any other family.
Because of this they are by far the most interesting thing in the movie so we remain transfixed on them even though we all know damn well that the increasingly insane Sheriff Wydell who is on a hunt for justice and is pursuing them should really be the actual protagonist.
Point is, as long as we can empathize or find fascinating a protagonist in a movie then we'll keep watching.
If we are trying to make a clear 'good guys versus bad guys' plot then it pays to have the protagonist be likable because it helps us sympathize with them better.
Although 'likable' doesn't necessarily mean the same thing as 'good', in some cases 'likable' can just mean we empathize with the characters without necessarily agreeing with their actions.
For me one such example is Wikus from District 9 because even though he's a massive jerk throughout the whole thing he was able to be embraced because of the realization that his selfish actions in a survival situation are probably what a lot of us would do in this situation and because he kind of redeems himself at the end.
But still sometimes a protagonist can be a heartless evil ruthless bastard with no redeeming qualities whatsoever, yet the audience is still engaged by them because they are so fascinating.
Case in point: The Devil's Rejects
This is a movie about a family of psychotic killers who are now on the run from the state police. Now these killers bruatlise, murder and torment their victims sadistically and so I'll be damned if I'm going to root for them, I hoped they would die horribly.
And yet, they are fascinating. They are the charismatic villain, we are horrified by what they do but we can't look away and despite all the murder and mayhem it is clear that they do love each other, like any other family.
Because of this they are by far the most interesting thing in the movie so we remain transfixed on them even though we all know damn well that the increasingly insane Sheriff Wydell who is on a hunt for justice and is pursuing them should really be the actual protagonist.
Point is, as long as we can empathize or find fascinating a protagonist in a movie then we'll keep watching.
Ignatius J. Reilly, the main character in 'A Confederacy of Dunces'. Even though he is the protagonist of the story, he is extremely unlikable - a grotesquely fat guy who is rude to everyone and has a tenuous grasp on reality on his best days.
The book was still pretty good, though.
The book was still pretty good, though.
