Does anyone else miss the gameplay of Classic Tom Clancy Games?

[Samtemdo8_v1legacy]

I am one of those people that is upset that the gaming community writes off military-esque games as "Spunkgargleweewee" (How mature of you Yathzee) mostly because it implies ALL the games are like that. Which I can tell you its not the case back in the past. Because before Call of Duty became the "Call of Duty we know today" there was the Tom Clancy games and these games had balls.






The first 3 Rainbow Six games lived up to their gameplay of "1 shot and you are dead but the same applies to your enemies" and unlike the modern shooters overuse of a linear train-ride shoot em up, this game had you explore entire levels at your own discreation. There was AI controled teams and mission plannings. There were tactics and such. And let me say that for the most part they handle their military themed games as mature as possible.

Ghost Recon (at the very least the first 1) was just basically Rainbow Six but on a larger scale instead of fighting mostly inside buildings and opening and clearing through doors, you were on the open battlefield, and you also had to factor in Tanks and Helicopters.

And Splinter Cell. Oh Splinter Cell how I miss your first 4 games. Like Rainbow Six 3, Splinter Cell Chaos Theory was the best of all the games. And ironically both were the first games to be M Rated which absolutely helps because the military life was not a pretty one.

 

[Bob_McMillan]

I do miss them, but I am also fine with some of the newer ones. I enjoyed SC Conviction and Blacklist as fun casual stealth games, same as Ghost Recon Future Soldier. The Division though...

If they could somehow merge the gameplay of the two generations, that would be great. I am interested in seeing what they will do with Ghost Recon Wild Lands.=

 

[B-Cell_v1legacy]

yes. they got casualized and consolized. I remember Early rainbow six games were tactical shooters. then vegas came and become gears of war with terrorist. and now its just another online game.

First 3 Splinter cell were one of the best stealth games ever. especially chaos thoery. they were inspired by Thief. then it become casual action game with automatic aim.

New Ghost recon looks like just another assassins creed like open world ubisoft game that will be as tactical as throw a brick on window.

there will never be any good splinter cell game in future. Ubisoft dont know how to make good games anymore. they havenot made a good game since 2005 splinter cell chaos theory.

 

[tippy2k2]

I equally miss the tactical games of yesteryear.

While I don't mind the evolution that the genre has taken, I really wish that the evolution didn't REPLACE tactical shooting games. Instead of having Call of Duties mixed with old Rainbow Six, we seem to have just had Rainbow Six replaced. I like Call of Duty but I'd much prefer if BOTH were still prevalent rather than the gaming world chase the dragon that is Call of Duty.

I think part of it is that the majority of people just don't find it fun. For myself, a sim (like SWAT 4 on the PC) would be the perfect new game where you have to actually abide by SWAT rules (you can't fire your weapon unless you or a hostage is in imminent danger, you have to clear rooms, calling in dead suspects and pick up downed weapons, etc) would be heaven but I recognize that I am in the minority. I'm also pretty sure that it's MUCH harder to make a true tactical shooter so mix that with the limited audience and you get the sadness recipe of minimal tactical shooters being released.

 

[Frezzato]

Say what you will about the very first Ghost Recon for the original Xbox/PC, but it was great being able to play as any squad member on your team, which could have demo guys, snipers, anti-armor and several specialists.

LET ME REPEAT MYSELF: You used to be able to play as any one of your six team members!

Being able to offset your two teams was also fun to do, like having only one or two snipers on your second squad or choosing their loadout.

The amazing thing was the PC and Xbox versions weren't that much different, except for the two tanks that were missing from the Xbox version in the mission Gold Mountain. Playing that on PC the first time had a great moment when you're sneaking and peaking around corners, only to hear the squeaking of tank treads, twice no less, and then hope your AT guy doesn't get shot on the way there.

I think the first Ghost Recon could do with a remake (poisonous words, I know), with larger maps and smarter AI. And I think it would be even better if, instead of standard deathmatch games, you could replace every enemy in the missions with actual players. This could mean anywhere from 20 to 40 enemies versus six Ghosts.

 

[Sharia]

Oh, definitely. Rogue Spear is my favourite Tom Clancy game and I frequently pop it on for another go.

 

[Darth Rosenberg]

Yup, I'd love a proper update of a game like Ghost Recon Island Thunder. Those games balanced freedom and soft simulations with quite punishing - but mostly very fair - combat. It died a death for me at the first Advanced Warfighter.

And I know Rainbow Six Siege has been very well received, but the only MP components of Rainbow games I ever cared about were split-screen co-op, either in missions or the excellent Terrorist Hunt mode. The Tom Clancy moniker is just a complete joke when it's attached to guff such as The Division.

George/Super Bunnyhop did a pretty decent piece on the history and legacy of Tom Clancy in games:

 

[Hawki]

I don't think "Spunkgargleweewee" refers to the "Clancyverse" line of shooters, since Yahtzee's line of criticism referred to things such as linearity, set pieces, etc.

That said, they're not my cup of tea. Or weren't - played the first R6 and Ghost Recon back in the day, didn't much care for them. As an adult, thrillers are usually outside my cup of tea in terms of genre, so double whammy I guess.

 

[Imperioratorex Caprae]

Oh, definitely. Rogue Spear is my favourite Tom Clancy game and I frequently pop it on for another go.

I loved that game, and the multiplayer was extremely fun. It had a decent mod community. It was also one of the first games I ever played in surround sound. I was at the top of the belltower sniping at friends when someone returned fire and I dove under my desk because I swore the bullet was real and actually narrowly missed my head.

 

[JUMBO PALACE]

Even though I have enjoyed all the Splinter Cell games (except Double Agent I found that game really weak) I do know what you mean. Those types of tactical, punishing shooter experiences are few and far between now. I really wish Siege had a singleplayer component because I would be all over that. Unfortunately I don't have anyone to play online with me so it's just not worth it.

 

[Samtemdo8_v1legacy]

Even though I have enjoyed all the Splinter Cell games (except Double Agent I found that game really weak) I do know what you mean. Those types of tactical, punishing shooter experiences are few and far between now. I really wish Siege had a singleplayer component because I would be all over that. Unfortunately I don't have anyone to play online with me so it's just not worth it.

Rainbow Six Siege in my eyes was trying to hard to compete with Counter Strike Global Offensive. Don't know if the game will make it in the E-sport scene.

 

[Zhukov]

Y'know what's hilarious?

I remember how when many of those games came out they were derided as being dumbed-down trash.

For example, when Ghost Recon came out people got mad because it didn't have mission planning. Ruined forever. Then when GR2 came out people got mad because it was "just a dumb run-and-gun" and "ruined by consoles".

Anyway, no, I don't miss them at all.

My prevailing memory of the old Rainbow Six games is how crap the AI was. The amount of times I told someone to frag or flash a room only for them to throw the grenade straight into the doorframe so it bounced back and killed the whole squad was beyond ridiculous.

The enemies didn't really react to what was going on. They compensated by giving them perfect accuracy and one-shot kills. My tactic was to gradually inch my way around corners and doors shooting each enemy in the foot or elbow as they came into sight because the others wouldn't react.

My main memory of Ghost Recon was beating every level by firing a few shots in the air and waiting for the enemies to come marching up in single file. Then unlocking a soldier with a semi-automatic grenade launcher that turned the game into easy mode.

 

[Darth Rosenberg]

You know its funny because I have more or less always disregarded for The Division because its just more of the Tom Clancy third-person shooter that we've been getting recently (which isn't necessarily bad, I had a lot of fun with Future Soldier) it wasn't until I watched a recent Extra Credits video on it until I thought that it was a slap in the face to the name. Its one thing to change the gameplay, its another thing to miss one of the central themes in his writing, which is the balance between limiting government power and ensuring public safety.

I saw that Extra Credits as well, but I'm not familiar with any underlying themes of Clancy's work (I wasn't even sure his stuff was good enough to have themes, frankly), nor have I seen enough of The Division's 'story'. The vague plot threads in the older Clancy games just gave the impression of very standard thriller fodder, with a sideline in U.S. rightwing fearmongering/exploitation, i.e. opposing forces often being Russians or Chinese.

That The Division might be seen as rather fascistic didn't really surprise me. If you're right and it does go against Clancy's worldview, though, then that's just another reason to pass on Ubisoft The Game: The Generic Bullet-sponge Shooter.

I remember how when many of those games came out they were derided as being dumbed-down trash.

For example, when Ghost Recon came out people got mad because it didn't have mission planning. Ruined forever. Then when GR2 came out people got mad because it was "just a dumb run-and-gun" and "ruined by consoles".

There was a design trajectory along a spectrum, so the earliest Ghost Recon's and even the first R6's on console were far more realistic in tone than anything else around. Operation Flashpoint came out on Xbox, and whilst it was a lot of fun in sandbox editor mode, its core design and interface were hideously ill-suited to console, making its campaign mode almost unplayable (unless the player was content to tunnel-vision their way through encounters and ignore detailed squad commands).

It's not hard to see why those early Clancy games are remembered so fondly, given how well they worked on console and how much more grounded they were than the usual mainstream action fodder. On console there's really nothing else like them.

 

[Samtemdo8_v1legacy]

And I know Rainbow Six Siege has been very well received, but the only MP components of Rainbow games I ever cared about were split-screen co-op, either in missions or the excellent Terrorist Hunt mode. The Tom Clancy moniker is just a complete joke when it's attached to guff such as The Division.

You know its funny because I have more or less always disregarded for The Division because its just more of the Tom Clancy third-person shooter that we've been getting recently (which isn't necessarily bad, I had a lot of fun with Future Soldier) it wasn't until I watched a recent Extra Credits video on it until I thought that it was a slap in the face to the name. Its one thing to change the gameplay, its another thing to miss one of the central themes in his writing, which is the balance between limiting government power and ensuring public safety.

I watched the Extra Credits episode you mentioned and so far I was dissipointed that the guy did not even mention how The Division fails in keeping up with the themes of Clancy's Writing?

 

[MysticSlayer]

In general, I was never a huge fan of the old Tom Clancy games, but I remember at least enjoying them. Rainbow Six had the tactical planning stage, which was always more fun than the execution. Once Lockdown dropped it, I lost interest in the series as a whole. After that, Splinter Cell was a lot of fun up through Double Agent. Chaos Theory in particular was always enjoyable.

 

[PainInTheAssInternet]

Snip

You want horrendous AI? Try playing Socom: Combined Assault. That game is a pain to play because your team is practically useless but the enemies are real crackshots and move about quickly to avoid getting hit. It comes with the added joy of game over screens if two of your teammates die or if you accidentally shoot them. Really the only way to play it is to stock up your teammates with red smoke and light automatic weapons and take on all the enemies yourself in a red mist.

OT
I do miss the old games, though I have to agree with Zhukov that the AI was pretty bad. I think one of the reasons I still pick up the original Ghost Recon is because of how simple it is. No complicated visuals that would get dated and look terrible on old consoles the way I imagine Advanced Warfighter and Future Soldier will. For how bad the AI is (practically incompetent), the game hides it decently by having you engage them out in the open one-on-one most of the time. It also allowed me to really soak in the ambience with all the silence to contrast with the firefighting, something that games very rarely do nowadays.

On the same hand, Rainbow Six 3 is difficult for me to enjoy due to how clunky it now feels and how apparently bad the AI is. That's not to say that it ever got a whole lot better (why hello, Vegas).

 

[Samtemdo8_v1legacy]

Y'know what's hilarious?

I remember how when many of those games came out they were derided as being dumbed-down trash.

For example, when Ghost Recon came out people got mad because it didn't have mission planning. Ruined forever. Then when GR2 came out people got mad because it was "just a dumb run-and-gun" and "ruined by consoles".

Anyway, no, I don't miss them at all.

My prevailing memory of the old Rainbow Six games is how crap the AI was. The amount of times I told someone to frag or flash a room only for them to throw the grenade straight into the doorframe so it bounced back and killed the whole squad was beyond ridiculous.

The enemies didn't really react to what was going on. They compensated by giving them perfect accuracy and one-shot kills. My tactic was to gradually inch my way around corners and doors shooting each enemy in the foot or elbow as they came into sight because the others wouldn't react.

My main memory of Ghost Recon was beating every level by firing a few shots in the air and waiting for the enemies to come marching up in single file. Then unlocking a soldier with a semi-automatic grenade launcher that turned the game into easy mode.

I understand that the AI can be finicky even in R6 Raven Shield and the controls can be a bit clunky, but still the gameplay options and features like just one shot and you die and the same applies to the enemies, a more emphasis on stealth and exploration, the mission planning, etc. etc. etc.

All those could have been improved tenfold in todays gaming technology.

 

[pookie101]

rogue spear and the first ghost recon were definitely two of my favourite games