Does being derivative make the game bad ?

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Shameless

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Many people on this website has said that the game X is not good because it's a clone of Game Y, or saying things like "This game is not worth it because it essentially the same as game Y", even though with my over 15 years of gaming I have yet to play two identical games (unless they were lazy sequels).

Tell me Escapists does being derivative mark the game bad ? even though it has reached the same quality as the game it "cloned" itself from ?
 

Worgen

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Whatever, just wash your hands.
no, darksiders took a ton of stuff from zelda and it was awesome
 

GiantRaven

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No. The very idea is stupid. Most games these days are in some way taking something from another game.
 

Hisshiss

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If I liked a game, i tend to love a sequel or prequel, since its generally just the same thing plus some fine tuning.

It has alot to do with what someone defines a game, as in something entirely original in every way.

In an industry of countless copies, prequels, sequels, spin offs, ports, and remakes, not to mention tried and true mechanics that are just too functional to replace every single game, you gotta learn to love more of the same :p.

Plus there is the benefit of a game very similiar to a previous loved one being trustworthy, helps make sure you get your moneys worth.
 

FortyPercent

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'Derivative' is a really annoying term due to it's overuse. Simply put, all mediums strive on the concept of derivation. It is not an inherently bad thing.

There is being TOO derivative, yeah, that's not good. If a work can't stand up on it's own merits, and it has the same merits as something else prior to it, then that work will never improve upon past versions, but this kind of thing happening is a lot rarer than people might make it out to be. Pretty much every medium lives on deriving concepts, story, character, music, style, mood etc. from other works. If something does well, other works will copy, or take inspiration, and in doing so, they can do well too. This is where the line between industry and art is crossed, though.

A derivative, in the bad sense, game, will simply copy what is popular and attempt to use that to make itself popular. Good use of derivation would be when a game looks at previous entries in the genre, or if it's a sequel, their own original, and looks at the flaws in that make up. Deriving the concept from previous examples and improving it is what gives us the pinnacles of genres, and what allows games to improve over time.

In short, derivation is incredibly important to not only games, but every medium out there, and while reliance on it and solely it can lead to stagnation, it is still integral to creating a great work.
 

Vern5

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People said that about Fallout New Vegas, too.

I think, when it comes down to it, a lot of games are very reminiscent of each other. How they manage to stand apart is in little distracting details that make you think you're playing a different game.

Hell, one day I had this weird epiphany. I was playing Psychonauts and thought, "huh, this platforming reminds me a bit of Super Mario 64 and Banjo Kazooie" But then the thought was swept out of my mind when I accidentally set a squirrel on fire and ate it.
 

MetaMop

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Anyone who thinks like that may as well dismiss every game, book, film or play. Halo, Call of Duty, Mass Effect, all those incredibly popular titles may as well be thrown away because "it's like something else." Almost everything is based on an already existing idea.
If the creators can take those pre-existing ideas and improve them, make them fun, maybe even reimagine them, then I'll be satisfied.
This doesn't go for shallow rip-offs, mind you. I'm talking about games that refresh those ideas and make them something enjoyable, even if it is familiar.
 

Smooth Operator

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Well we all derive our new ideas from old concepts we learned from our surroundings, the question is if the stuff you present as new is really worth it.
It get's bad when you stay too close to the original and it just looks like you are repacking other peoples stuff, but give enough of a spin to it and it can become a whole new thing.
 

MrShadowzs

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to an extent, no but if it really just feels like the same game with new wallpaper then yes, but i think as long as its fun then it shouldn't matter
 

WayOutThere

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No, the execution of a game's ideas count for more than if those ideas are new or not. Myself, really like Killzone 2. Although it does nothing new, it's a modern FPS done right. The bigger problem with derivativeness is that when gamers* buy little but derivative games they choke off demande for anything new. A game being derivative IS something to get upset about in that, however, taken of its own terms being derivative alone does not make a game bad.

*I should note the same, of course, applies to any medium.
 

Shameless

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I see your points gentlemen, but I still do not understand reviewers derivative games lower scores simply because they are derivative, a game should be measured on it's own merits.
 

Ekonk

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FortyPercent said:
rileyrulesu said:
Not as long as you integrate it well.

See what I did there?
Math jokes are never funny.
I disagree.
http://quarterlifestyleblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/be-rational-get-real_design.png
 

WayOutThere

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baddude1337 said:
If games did not take each others ideas the industry would have never evolved beyond Pong.
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GiantRaven said:
No. The very idea is stupid. Most games these days are in some way taking something from another game.
I don't think anyone is saying games should never take ideas from other games. The question is if a game doing little or nothing new inherently makes it bad, not whether a game taking anything from another game makes it bad.

Erana said:
It is something to complain about.

People Love complaining.
While that's probably true, I hardly think such a dismissive comment does the topic justice.


Vern5 said:
People said that about Fallout New Vegas, too.

I think, when it comes down to it, a lot of games are very reminiscent of each other. How they manage to stand apart is in little distracting details that make you think you're playing a different game.

Hell, one day I had this weird epiphany. I was playing Psychonauts and thought, "huh, this platforming reminds me a bit of Super Mario 64 and Banjo Kazooie" But then the thought was swept out of my mind when I accidentally set a squirrel on fire and ate it.
+
FortyPercent said:
My response to both these comments is the same:

 

Zaik

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In the end, if it's fun, it's not bad, if it's not fun, it's bad.

If a game is exactly like a game I already enjoyed and played until I was tired of it, chances are it's not fun for me anymore.
 

rsmssnpdr

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It ultimately depends on the game. Being a little bit derivative would be fine, even a substantial amount would be acceptable as long as it incorporates some of it's own ideas or flavor. I mean, all fps games have the same control method which in a way is derived from a previous game, but this is fine since it works and it helps the game. But if a game can't add its own ideas, if it is just another copied game then it is being too derivative.

And people complain because they like to and because some people feel that every game should never use a mechanic or idea presented in another game which is lunacy.