Does Morrowind hold up?

[Fiad]

I tried getting into it before I even got Oblivion, so there isn't any like weird "I got used to Oblivion so Morrowind is unplayable" thing, I could not get into it. The main thing that bugged me were the constant invisible background rolls against your stats. Try to hit something with your sword, see it hit head on, nope missed. Mostly the good things that I have heard are always the same two things, the story and the open world. Those can only take a game so far. I will sit through some bad gameplay to hear a great story, but I just could not with Morrowind.

 

[BoTTeNBReKeR]

I remember buying it a few years ago and playing it. Modded the shit out of that game to make it playable. I can see why it would've been a great game back in the day, but I simply put it down after 10 or so hours.

So no. I can't say it holds up for people who never played it before.

 

[Starke]

Then again I am one of those extreme minority hated ones who actually likes good graphics in games.

I note the sarcasm but of course you realise its not liking good graphics that is the problem right? its placing graphics before gameplay that stokes the wrath of the nerd gamer.

Not really (strictly from a gameplay perspective). It's still great, and I prefer it to Oblivion, but the combat is absolutely terrible.

Nevertheless, the combat doesn't hold up in the fucking slightest. That includes the magic, which you can't mix with combat in any convenient way. I still love the game though, just because I'm the kind of RPG-fag that will forgive any game that gives me an adventure.

I'd just like to point out that a good RPG doesnt stand on its combat so combat alone should never be a reason to disregard an RPG. Too many gamers these days are weaned on bastard (in the literal sense) action-RPG hybrids (thanks Bioware) that they unfairly expect all RPGs to have a solid action core... thats just not what RPG is about.

But then i'm a crusty old-school gamer so just get off my lawn and all that...

Good thing you pointed that out, I was about to start white knighting about Bioware.

Then again, I do think Combat is far more important than that. But that's just me.

And actually, bollocks to bioware. Recently I've started noticing massive holes in their games, ME2 I liked but on reflection it was steadily sliding downhill when compared to ME1, most especially in terms of story.

And now that Bethesda has managed to put an entire country in a box in Skyrim, I pity them. TES isn't pulling any punches and it shows. I'm starting to develop unreasonable standards, because Bioware games are starting to feel pathetically small and aneamic to me just now.

I guess Bethesda just has practice at this sort of thing, and now that their tech and resources are shaping up it's starting to really show. I understand that other RPG's will still sell well, but I'm starting to pity other developers a little. What on earth can stand against something as massive as Skyrim?

The only recent Bioware game... since... gah, Baldurs Gate maybe? That really struck me as having really good writing was DA2. Mass Effect and Jade Empire were kind of serviceable in a slathered with cheese kind of way.

Anyway, on the subject of the importance of combat, strictly speaking, Continuity is correct. It isn't that important to an RPG under ideal circumstances. I can only think of a handful of CRPGs that really work at that level though. In pencil and paper, he's dead right, but for something like Morrowind, combat, be it stealth/magic/or a huge ass hammer, is the single most frequent method of interaction with an NPC, and to a huge extent carries the game. If the combat isn't interesting or engaging in some way, most players won't care. In the case of Morrowind nearly every action is controlled by rolling a die, so, other avenues of interaction aren't any better.

 

[ToastiestZombie]

Well the combat system in Morrowind does not hold up. Swinging your sword at a rat and missing 15 times out of 20 does not make a good combat system. Also, why the hell do you move so slow! It's like your in the mid of a battle and you decide to just have a casual stroll. Dont get me wrong Morrowind is a very good game, but for people who dont want to have to grind and die over and over again it is not a good game. In my opinion the perfect Elder Scrolls game would be Morrowind's skills, Skyrim's leveling and combat systems in a world similar to Morrowind's.

 

[legion431]

If Morrowind could hold up against these new games after all these years does that mean we haven't progressed as an industry?

 

[ToastiestZombie]

Then again I am one of those extreme minority hated ones who actually likes good graphics in games.

I note the sarcasm but of course you realise its not liking good graphics that is the problem right? its placing graphics before gameplay that stokes the wrath of the nerd gamer.

Not really (strictly from a gameplay perspective). It's still great, and I prefer it to Oblivion, but the combat is absolutely terrible.

Nevertheless, the combat doesn't hold up in the fucking slightest. That includes the magic, which you can't mix with combat in any convenient way. I still love the game though, just because I'm the kind of RPG-fag that will forgive any game that gives me an adventure.

I'd just like to point out that a good RPG doesnt stand on its combat so combat alone should never be a reason to disregard an RPG. Too many gamers these days are weaned on bastard (in the literal sense) action-RPG hybrids (thanks Bioware) that they unfairly expect all RPGs to have a solid action core... thats just not what RPG is about.

But then i'm a crusty old-school gamer so just get off my lawn and all that...

The weird thing about that post was that you said "put gameplay before graphics", then when someone said that the gameplay was crap you said that the world compensates for it. Having a good world is good and all, but when everything feels stiff and artificial (like in Morrowind) experiencing the world will always be hindered by the crap gameplay.

 

[Continuity]

The weird thing about that post was that you said "put gameplay before graphics", then when someone said that the gameplay was crap you said that the world compensates for it. Having a good world is good and all, but when everything feels stiff and artificial (like in Morrowind) experiencing the world will always be hindered by the crap gameplay.

Whoa there buddy, you just made the cardinal mistake of conflating gameplay and combat, they are not the same thing, a game with no combat at all still has gameplay.

 

[ToastiestZombie]

The weird thing about that post was that you said "put gameplay before graphics", then when someone said that the gameplay was crap you said that the world compensates for it. Having a good world is good and all, but when everything feels stiff and artificial (like in Morrowind) experiencing the world will always be hindered by the crap gameplay.

Whoa there buddy, you just made the cardinal mistake of conflating gameplay and combat, they are not the same thing, a game with no combat at all still has gameplay.

Yes but when the actual gameplay still is very bad, and the combat is bad. Just because there may be one gameplay feature that is good doesnt mean it excuses all the other bad gameplay features. Here's some example of bad gameplay that is not combat related.

.If you dont want to use the stamina bar much, you walk so slowly. In the middle of a battle you want to run about not have a gentle stroll.
.Barely any voice acting, which in an RPG with as many characters as Morrowind makes it much less immersive than it can be
.For new players there is almost no help whatsoever, no map, no compass, hard enemies right outside the first town and much more. I would rather have a game that was easy to old gamers but not so brutally hard to new players.

 

[Starke]

The weird thing about that post was that you said "put gameplay before graphics", then when someone said that the gameplay was crap you said that the world compensates for it. Having a good world is good and all, but when everything feels stiff and artificial (like in Morrowind) experiencing the world will always be hindered by the crap gameplay.

Whoa there buddy, you just made the cardinal mistake of conflating gameplay and combat, they are not the same thing, a game with no combat at all still has gameplay.

Then again, given this IS Morrowind, we're looking at a breakdown of gameplay around:

Combat: 55% (By game content), 15% (by time consumed)
Exploration (Also known as: getting lost due to deliberately vague quest directions): 25%, 75%
Building your character: 5%, 5%
Engaging in other interactions (reading books, talking to NPCs, completing quests, picking locks) 15%, 5%

 

[The-Epicly-Named-Man]

I'd just like to point out that a good RPG doesnt stand on its combat so combat alone should never be a reason to disregard an RPG. Too many gamers these days are weaned on bastard (in the literal sense) action-RPG hybrids (thanks Bioware) that they unfairly expect all RPGs to have a solid action core... thats just not what RPG is about.

But then i'm a crusty old-school gamer so just get off my lawn and all that...

Not really (strictly from a gameplay perspective). It's still great, and I prefer it to Oblivion, but the combat is absolutely terrible.

*Sigh. Please, could you possibly read the highlighted sections of my post, instead of giving me a lecture on RPGs "back in your days".

 

[Agayek]

I'm not talking about graphics as they don't matter too much to me, but is Morrowind so highly praised in a Deus Ex kinda way where it's mostly nostalgia holding it up, or a Painkiller kinda way where it actually is fun compared to modern games?

EDIT: OH GOD I'm not saying Deus Ex isn't fun!

Morrowind still holds up great. I would say Skyrim is slightly better, but not by a whole hell of a lot. The whole world is huge and there's all sorts of goodies with it, especially if you get into modding it a bit.

The only thing in Morrowind that doesn't hold up is the quest log/journal. That thing is incredibly confusing. If you can get used to that, the game is amazing.

 

[Deacon Cole]

All I can tell you is I didn't like it. I hated, hated, hated, hated, hated, hated, hated, hated, hated, hated, hated, hated, hated, hated, hated, hated, hated, hated, hated, hated, hated, hated, hated, hated, hated, hated, hated, hated, hated, hated, hated, hated, hated, hated, hated, hated, hated, hated, hated, the combat. I really didn't like it. I can't even remember what it was like anymore and I count that as a blessing. I had gotten it a year or two ago when Steam was having one of their sales. The graphic, particularly the character models and animation, were kind of primitive, but I can dig it. It's an old game. It was also a bit talky, but aren't they all? No big deal. So I finally got a mission to go to the next town or something. I really didn't care. I was just happy to finally be playing the damned game after all that pointless dialog. I was digging on the forest environments and beginning to realize why the game gets so much praise when some monster wandered up to me. I forget what. A blood worm or something and I found the combat to be horrible. I was actually taken aback at how much I hated it. But I soldiered on for a bit and another thing attacked me and the combat wasn't getting any better. I came to the realization that this was going to be the bulk of my playing experience. Wordy dialog and ass combat. The first I can handle, but I found the second to be no fun at all. It was a deal breaker, so I uninstalled and don't give it any thought except whenever this topic comes up every now and again. I understand there is a mod that makes the combat more tolerable, but nothing short of a complete rewrite of the entire game could make it good. Why should I play a game I didn't find fun?

So, that's my two cents. Take it for what it may be worth.

 

[TheCrapMaster]

Well morrowind will hold it place as among the best games i played when i first lay my youthfull eyes upon it. BUT gameplay wise i can say it is abit dated and probably its because of nostalgia i keep returning to it. But if you want to know what the fuzz is about and graphics arent important it sure is worth a try .

 

[DanielBrown]

I tried replaying it a few years ago when I got hooked again on Oblivion, but found it unbearable.
The outdated graphics(sorry, I'm a graphics whore), the entire world freezing when you spoke to someone and the lack of spoken dialogue was annoying enough, but I had also completely forgotten about the awful combat system. Magic might work great, but I've only played with one handed weapons and a shield in the Elder Scrolls games. The one time I actually got anywhere in Morrowind was when I cheated myself to awesome weapons and armor to be able to kill stuff.
If you want to go retro I think Oblivion would be the better choice.

 

[Adam Jensen_v1legacy]

I can understand why people wouldn't like Morrowind if they played it today for the first time. It's a very old school RPG. The combat is shit and it depends completely on your stats. Graphics are bad, there is no fast travel and the world is bigger than Skyrim and Oblivion. You can actually get lost in Morrowind. It's a hostile land. And you have to read everything.

But despite those flaws it's a damn good game. Best one in the series in my opinion. The world just feels so strange and real. You really get that "stranger in a strange land" vibe. It's the most atmospheric games I've ever played. And the rich history of Morrowind is captivating. I was a kid when I first played it, and I didn't mind that I had to read everything. In fact, I think it's a lot better. For some reason it adds to the immersion. It's better to have no voices than to have voices that break immersion when they repeat themselves. When you read NPC's lines you can imagine their personality and tone of what they said for yourself. That just adds to the freedom.

 

[Crazy Zaul]

It generally does, the only major problem is that you have to keep reading your diary for quest info and find places based on directions.

Also, Cliff racers!

 

[Custard_Angel]

The environments and story of Morrowind are still good and the variety is better, but graphics are pretty dated.

It's still fun, but I agree that alot of people may just give up on it.

 

[Zhukov]

No, not really.

Yeah, it's massive, but the minute-to-minute gameplay is balls, the interface looks like a parody of bad interfaces and the dialogue system is quite possibly the worst I have ever seen.