Donald Trump's Captain America?

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Scarim Coral

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That would be interesting how Marvel will tackle this since Obama did appear in the comic one or two times. Will Trump appear in it or what Steve stance will be if they want to mention the politics (before you mention, I'm not up to date with Marvel comics).
 

bastardofmelbourne

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Scarim Coral said:
That would be interesting how Marvel will tackle this since Obama did appear in the comic one or two times.
Grant Morrison took it to eleven and made Obama into Superman [http://superman.wikia.com/wiki/Calvin_Ellis].

Fox12 said:
Thaluikhain said:
Wasn't the Comedian from Watchman based on Captain America, or am I misremembering?
I think he's essentially just a deconstruction of all the heroes that carry that mantle. Captain America, sure, but probably people like superman too. I think Alan Moore was being an idiot when he wrote that character, though. As if the American people would ever try to defend a rapist/molester, and then label him a hero...
He's a deconstruction of Peacemaker [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peacemaker_(comics)], a Charlton Comics character that migrated to DC after the latter bought out the former.

Watchmen started out when Alan Moore was hired to adapt the recently-acquired Charlton line-up into the mainstream DC universe. His script rapidly became too extreme for that, but it was also way too good for DC to pass on, so instead he replaced all the Charlton characters with expies (Captain Atom became Dr. Manhattan, the Question became Rorschach, Blue Beetle became Nite-Owl, and Peacemaker became the Comedian) and proceeded to deconstruct and/or kill them, creating the greatest comic book ever written in the process.

The Charlton characters were then assimilated in other ways - Question got really popular, Captain Atom and Blue Beetle have hovered at B-list popularity - and eventually revisted in an excellent issue of Multiversity by Grant Morrison, whose work I normally hate reading, but which in this case ended up being a neat little love-letter to Alan Moore.
 

Queen Michael

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burnout02urza said:
Hydra Captain America proves that Steve's staunch defense of 1940s values with a bit of modern liberalism is a lie. Like, every word from his mouth is now spoken in mockery, in a Nazi's sneer.
Nope. The comics make it quite clear that even though he now has a history of Hydra membership, he feels that --to oversimplify it a bit-- what Hydra should stand for is to make the world a better place for everybody and that its current fascism is a corruption of that. Basically, his true, goodhearted nature still shines through.

burnout02urza said:
Now, it's not clear if his backstory is being actively rewritten, or just his memories...
Well actually, the comics make it quite clear that it's his backstory that's changed, and not just his memories.
 

Johnny Novgorod

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altnameJag said:
burnout02urza said:
I'm saying they're going to have to replace Steve Rogers.

After all, they already turned him into a Nazi, didn't they?

I'm saying that this guy:



...is currently the embodiment of American values.

Yeah, it's not an alternate universe, and not a shoop. This is what's happening now.
That's time travel shenanigans/mind control. Two of the most easily forgiven or explained away maladies that exist in comic books. At most it means that Sam Wilson stays Captain America for the foreseeable future.
Is that wishful thinking or did they actually go with that explanation?
 

bastardofmelbourne

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Johnny Novgorod said:
Is that wishful thinking or did they actually go with that explanation?
Red Skull + Cosmic Cube. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmic_Cube]

It'll be undone in less than a year. Welcome to comics.
 

Johnny Novgorod

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bastardofmelbourne said:
Johnny Novgorod said:
Is that wishful thinking or did they actually go with that explanation?
Red Skull + Cosmic Cube. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmic_Cube]

It'll be undone in less than a year. Welcome to comics.
I'm not gonna plow through that. Did they officially explain it or are you just guessing?
 

bastardofmelbourne

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Johnny Novgorod said:
I'm not gonna plow through that. Did they officially explain it or are you just guessing?
Here, [https://www.inverse.com/article/17669-captain-america-hydra-nazi-fake-twist-fans-angry-anti-semetism] and also here. [http://screenrant.com/captain-america-steve-rogers-hydra-explained/]

tl;dr - The Red Skull got his hands on a Cosmic Cube (reality altering device 2-C) incarnated in the form of a girl named Kobik, and changed reality by reading her bedtime stories about how great Hydra was.

Just like Donald Trump did.
 

Azure23

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bastardofmelbourne said:
Johnny Novgorod said:
I'm not gonna plow through that. Did they officially explain it or are you just guessing?
Here, [https://www.inverse.com/article/17669-captain-america-hydra-nazi-fake-twist-fans-angry-anti-semetism] and also here. [http://screenrant.com/captain-america-steve-rogers-hydra-explained/]

tl;dr - The Red Skull got his hands on a Cosmic Cube (reality altering device 2-C) incarnated in the form of a girl named Kobik, and changed reality by reading her bedtime stories about how great Hydra was.

Just like Donald Trump did.
Wait really? That's fucking brilliant. I jumped ship on Marvel years ago for creator owned books but honestly that's hilarious. Say it with me now everybody!

COMICS. ARE. WEIRD!!!!
 

Kenbo Slice

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bastardofmelbourne said:
Scarim Coral said:
That would be interesting how Marvel will tackle this since Obama did appear in the comic one or two times.
Grant Morrison took it to eleven and made Obama into Superman [http://superman.wikia.com/wiki/Calvin_Ellis].

Fox12 said:
Thaluikhain said:
Wasn't the Comedian from Watchman based on Captain America, or am I misremembering?
I think he's essentially just a deconstruction of all the heroes that carry that mantle. Captain America, sure, but probably people like superman too. I think Alan Moore was being an idiot when he wrote that character, though. As if the American people would ever try to defend a rapist/molester, and then label him a hero...
He's a deconstruction of Peacemaker [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peacemaker_(comics)], a Charlton Comics character that migrated to DC after the latter bought out the former.

Watchmen started out when Alan Moore was hired to adapt the recently-acquired Charlton line-up into the mainstream DC universe. His script rapidly became too extreme for that, but it was also way too good for DC to pass on, so instead he replaced all the Charlton characters with expies (Captain Atom became Dr. Manhattan, the Question became Rorschach, Blue Beetle became Nite-Owl, and Peacemaker became the Comedian) and proceeded to deconstruct and/or kill them, creating the greatest comic book ever written in the process.

The Charlton characters were then assimilated in other ways - Question got really popular, Captain Atom and Blue Beetle have hovered at B-list popularity - and eventually revisted in an excellent issue of Multiversity by Grant Morrison, whose work I normally hate reading, but which in this case ended up being a neat little love-letter to Alan Moore.
May I ask why you hate Morrison? He's one of my favorites. Yeah not all his stuff is great (Nu52 Action Comics being a shining example) but his Animal Man and Doom Patrol runs are classics. I'm also quite fond of his run on Batman with Dick Grayson as Bats and Damian as Robin.
 

bastardofmelbourne

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Kenbo Slice said:
May I ask why you hate Morrison? He's one of my favorites. Yeah not all his stuff is great (Nu52 Action Comics being a shining example) but his Animal Man and Doom Patrol runs are classics. I'm also quite fond of his run on Batman with Dick Grayson as Bats and Damian as Robin.
Grant Morrison, for me, is a mixed bag. Some of his output I would rate as the best work I've ever read - All-Star Superman, JLA, Doom Patrol, We3, Wonder Woman: Earth One - but some of it isn't.

My major problem with him is that he has trouble keeping the narrative coherent. The Invisibles and The Filth are good examples of this; I had no fucking idea what was even going on, and didn't care enough to try and decipher it. He sometimes gets obsessed with "meaning", and seeds every panel and line with various esoteric references in ways that only a crazy person would think made sense; it ultimately only succeeds in making me think that he's a bit of a tosser.

Part of the problem is that Morrison rapidly became so popular in the mid-2000s that he was allowed to operate mostly unedited, with the end result that his stories rapidly became a rambling mess of conspiracy theories and pseudoscience. When Morrison restrains and focuses himself, the quality of his work increases dramatically. Unfortunately, his run on Batman was a case of the former, and so we had...

- Talia al'Ghul making an army of man-bats;
- Damian Wayne kind of hanging around and being a jerk for no reason;
- a weird poseur villain claiming to be Thomas Wayne with photoshopped pictures of Batman's parents having orgies with Alfred;
- a lady named Jezebel [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jezebel], who was - in a shocking twist! - untrustworthy!!!
- Batman having his psyche destroyed by...words, and then reverting to a back-up psyche placed by hypnotic triggers that just got retconned revealed;
- Zur-En-Arrh [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batman_of_Zur-En-Arrh#Modern_Age];
- Batman grabbing a gun [http://www.gothamcalling.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/Untitled-27.jpg];
- Batman dying, but not really, because he was sent back in time, but he left his flesh-stripped skeleton behind, but Darkseid had turned him into a time-bomb, and it was all part of his plan, or something.

You see what I mean? I find he's gotten much better recently, but during his protection-from-editors phase, he was unbearable. He's really good so long as he has someone around to slap him in the face every time he says "And then, it turns out the entire plot was the dying dream of a microscopic civilisation that lived in between the follicles of his pubic hair!"

[sub]And don't get me started on New X-Men.[/sub]
 

TheMysteriousGX

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bastardofmelbourne said:
Yeah, Morrison is on my list of "needs an experienced editor" along with Ellis and Ennis.

They can be brilliant as long as you boop them on the nose with a rolled up newspaper every now and again.
 

JUMBO PALACE

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altnameJag said:
bastardofmelbourne said:
Yeah, Morrison is on my list of "needs an experienced editor" along with Ellis and Ennis.

They can be brilliant as long as you boop them on the nose with a rolled up newspaper every now and again.
Add me to the iffy on Morrison fan club. I liked a lot of his Batman run but really did not enjoy Batman Inc. He's always dredging up obscure characters and weaving them into totally bizarre and nonsensical meta narratives. I'm reading JLA volume 1 right now and so far it's a bit better. It's much more comic-booky what with the white martians and all that.