Don't ask don't tell.

[Lightnr]

Why would you care to advertise your sexuality in the military anyway? Pretty sure the military frowns on any troops getting involved with each other in a sexual manner (This means men and women as well). Why would anyone want to know? Why couldn't the military just have a bylaw that punishes those who discriminate or harm others based on sexuality?

Uhhhh... filthy filthy rotten steamy anonymous military sex?? The main reason why people join to begin with. Have you SEEN GIJane? She shaved her head to attract more men who were into the filthy military sex with military women thing.

 

[Saltyk]

Why would you care to advertise your sexuality in the military anyway? Pretty sure the military frowns on any troops getting involved with each other in a sexual manner (This means men and women as well). Why would anyone want to know? Why couldn't the military just have a bylaw that punishes those who discriminate or harm others based on sexuality?

Uhhhh... filthy filthy rotten steamy anonymous military sex?? The main reason why people join to begin with. Have you SEEN GIJane? She shaved her head to attract more men who were into the filthy military sex with military women thing.

Okay, that is news to me. I've never heard anyone mention that. In fact, everyone I've ever known who ever expressed an interest in joining the military was for the money/school/training. Never once did I hear someone suggest they were after the steamy hot anonymous military sex. Though that does put them all in a new light...

And it's been a decade or so since I saw GI Jane, but I was pretty sure it was all about a woman trying to enter the Navy Seals and she shaved her hair to defeminize herself. I didn't see the uncut directors XXX version you apparently did.

Honestly, I think you're making that up.

 

[Iron Mal]

I never really saw the problem with 'don't ask don't tell' (it's not saying that you can't be in the military if you're gay, it's just asking that you keep it to yourself) but conversely there's no reason you shouldn't be allowed to be open about your sexuality (as long as we all have the same definition of being 'open').

The way I see it, you shouldn't be afraid or ashamed to admit that you're gay to a friend or if asked by someone but by the same token you shouldn't start displaying it like a badge of honour (obnoxious gay pride just makes you look bad and perpetuates the stereotype that you oppose).

 

[Avarith]

I never really saw the problem with 'don't ask don't tell' (it's not saying that you can't be in the military if you're gay, it's just asking that you keep it to yourself) but conversely there's no reason you shouldn't be allowed to be open about your sexuality (as long as we all have the same definition of being 'open').

The way I see it, you shouldn't be afraid or ashamed to admit that you're gay to a friend or if asked by someone but by the same token you shouldn't start displaying it like a badge of honour (obnoxious gay pride just makes you look bad and perpetuates the stereotype that you oppose).

Now this is interesting, but if you are ever caught with some one you like, of the same gender. kissing or what not, you get the major boot. So DADT being gone means more than just being open it means being able to stay in the military if you are gay.

 

[Iron Mal]

Now this is interesting, but if you are ever caught with some one you like, of the same gender. kissing or what not, you get the major boot. So DADT being gone means more than just being open it means being able to stay in the military if you are gay.

It was my understanding that fraternization in general was frowned upon? Not just that of a homosexual description.

So someone being kicked out for that would actually be violating the rules surrounding that raher than because 'we don't want no gays around when we're shooting people' which doesn't sound too unreasonable.

The reason they at one point discouraged women from frontline service was because they felt that men would get distracted at critical times or would be prone to doing stupid things and putting themselves at risk to 'protect' their female comrades, now apply that to someone who's a significant other (this isn't discrimination,it's trying to keep you focused and help you avoid coming home in a body bag).

 

[Avarith]

Now this is interesting, but if you are ever caught with some one you like, of the same gender. kissing or what not, you get the major boot. So DADT being gone means more than just being open it means being able to stay in the military if you are gay.

It was my understanding that fraternization in general was frowned upon? Not just that of a homosexual description.

So someone being kicked out for that would actually be violating the rules surrounding that raher than because 'we don't want no gays around when we're shooting people' which doesn't sound too unreasonable.

The reason they at one point discouraged women from frontline service was because they felt that men would get distracted at critical times or would be prone to doing stupid things and putting themselves at risk to 'protect' their female comrades, now apply that to someone who's a significant other (this isn't discrimination,it's trying to keep you focused and help you avoid coming home in a body bag).

Well, I understand this, but Fraternization here, is sleeping with an officer while you are enlisted, They do not care if you have sex with some one of the opposite gender as long as it does not effect your work.

Worrying that if some one found out that you were gay and them coming to kick your ass or even killing you for said fact is a very real and very scary threat and that is not gone because of this but it means that it is not as big of a threat as it could be.

Though I like what you are saying and it makes sense on a few levels, I am only going with what I see here and how it appears to me. You are right though and I am glad you are making an intelligent counter point.

 

[Iron Mal]

Well, I understand this, but Fraternization here, is sleeping with an officer while you are enlisted, They do not care if you have sex with some one of the opposite gender as long as it does not effect your work.

Worrying that if some one found out that you were gay and them coming to kick your ass or even killing you for said fact is a very real and very scary threat and that is not gone because of this but it means that it is not as big of a threat as it could be.

Though I like what you are saying and it makes sense on a few levels, I am only going with what I see here and how it appears to me. You are right though and I am glad you are making an intelligent counter point.

Fair enough, my understanding of the system was wrong and thank you for enlightening me.

As for the fear of personal safety because of your sexual orientation, this is sort of where the DADT thing came in.

Realistically, it's going to be a long, long time before gays/lesbians are truely accepted and viewed as equal in society (from what I hear it's even worse in the US), being able to be open about your sexuality is a start towards this although it is inherantly going to be putting people who actually engage in this at risk (even if just for the short term).

You may have the right to be open about your sexuality (and if you're comfortable about that then by all means feel free, it would be wrong of me to tell someone else how to feel or think) but this does not mean that exercising that right is always a good idea (by all means I have the right to go out into a local pub and openly announce that I am nerdy and don't like football but I shouldn't be too suprised if I get a few harsh names and perhaps violence in return).

With more rights and freedom comes the understanding and acknowledgement that there are always consequences and potential hazards attached. You're free to be open about your sexuality and express it any way you choose but at the same time you should understand the repercussions of such action and how not everyone will be accepting or undestanding of your choice (as unfortuneate as it is, there will likely never be a time when everyone will be completely understanding and tolerant of those different from themselves, it's just human nature).

So really it's a choice between the saftey of hiding that aspect of your personality and individuality in exchange for saftey from the judgement and hostility of others or the right and freedom of expressing yourself in exchange for the potential danger of not everyone being happy about that revelation.

 

[FoxxyFox]

Well if this builds further trust in the military and helps a minority group gain strength in the public eye YAY! It is about time we moved on to a new group to insult and exclude. I have gotten sick of the homophobia and anti immigrant things in my area. Let?s set a witch-hunt on magazines like People and all other magazines that sell false images of men or women.

Always nice to see when America goes back to our political roots and works on positive change rather than stagnant fear.

You are so absolutely riight, about everything. The Dont Ask Dont tell policy, in a way, is a minor ploy to get what the government wanted. People seem to feel that bunking, and shower rooms would be the biggest concern, but all the men have been taking showers with other soldiers for months, or years, and if they can't deal wiith one man actually being a tiny bit inclined to peek, not thatt many actually would, then they have no right to protect their country.

The witchunt? Also brilliant. Everyone says to us to trust ourseves, and love our bodies, but it's almost impossbile, no ones doing anything to help us!