Don't hit a girl?
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There is no reason to hit anyone, it solves nothing. There are, however, situations like self defense, where there is a reason to kill someone. In those situations, I don't think you should discriminate based on gender, I wouldn't let myself die of become seriously injured for not wanting to hurt a female.
I know its different than hitting someone, but like I said, there is never a reason to hit or injure someone. Non-lethal violence inflicts pain an never solves anything.
I know its different than hitting someone, but like I said, there is never a reason to hit or injure someone. Non-lethal violence inflicts pain an never solves anything.
I believe no one should hit anyone if it can be avoided. Words should always come first, even when a punch is thrown. Trying to talk someone down should be the first plan of action. Of course, if you really do need to defend yourself in a situation that may be life threatening, then I say do what you need to in order to get out alive.
As for the gender of the assailant? Well frankly it wouldn't really matter to me. If a man or women puts me in a situation where there is no other choice, than I will do what I need to. That point however would be quite dire, so violence is a last resort.
As for the gender of the assailant? Well frankly it wouldn't really matter to me. If a man or women puts me in a situation where there is no other choice, than I will do what I need to. That point however would be quite dire, so violence is a last resort.
If I feel my life is threatened, I will kill before I'm killed.
I don't know why people think women can't fight. I know my girlfriend presently can kick my ass, she's a black belt with real fight experience. I've never been a real fight.
I don't know why people think women can't fight. I know my girlfriend presently can kick my ass, she's a black belt with real fight experience. I've never been a real fight.
You know there's a lot of value to the saying "if you don't have anything nice to say don't say anything at all".BloatedGuppy said:
If you can't reply to something that I said positively, constructively or with any sort of value don't do it just to insult me. This is not a pissing contest.
Seriously? So what you're basically saying is that because the majority of cases do not go like this it's not worth considering, discussing or talking about. In 8/10 cases a man will be physically superior to a woman, so it's not worth considering the remaining 2/10. These events don't matter? The very idea of entertaining an even slightly less probable version of events is this horrifying to you?BloatedGuppy said:
Why do you have such a strong dismissive reaction?
And could you be MORE condescending please? It's not quite annoying enough yet.
BloatedGuppy said:
BloatedGuppy said:
So I somehow misinterpreted the phrase "I don't believe in hitting women" as "I don't believe in hitting in women". Mind explaining what you actually meant then?BloatedGuppy said:
The problem is that you DID state that you, as a man should not hit women and most of your reply is you pretending that you somehow didn't.
Look, if you honestly don't think that there's an objective difference between men attacking women outside of pure strength levels and possibility of hurting one another, and you don't see a necessary difference between one gender attacking another one, then that's fine and we agree completely.
But repeatedly you feel the need to state that this is the "exception" that it's not worth considering, that the very idea of taking it into account is somehow foolish, boring or stupid. This makes me very seriously sceptical that you actually have an unbiased view of violent interactions between genders, that you actually consider gender to be just another factor. It seems very heavily to me that your view of people in terms of strength is split into the categories "men" and "women".
You are treating a woman being stronger then a man as an event of such absurdity and profound improbability that it's comparable to a comic book origins story.
People often attack each other. Sometimes they're of different genders. Most of the time one of them is stronger than the other one. Strength is influenced by gender, with men being stronger than women. So assuming no other variables, and the man being exactly average and the woman being exactly average, the man will be stronger then the woman.
This does not tell us what percentage of the time a man will be stronger than a woman.
You admitted that you have basically no info
And yet your concluding that this event is so improbable it's "exception hunting", not worth considering. Do I need to explain why this suggests that you're biased? Your view of the probabilities is completely out of touch with the amount of confirmed data you actually have. You're making assumptions, to the degree that you feel any argumentation on the probability you're assuming to be extremely low is irrelevant BECAUSE it's so low!
Which REEKS of excuse anyway since the benefit of discussion is not defined as x information gained times probability of event discussed. People don't talk or argue about hypothetical events because those events have a strong chance of occurring, we talk about them because of the factors IN those events and how much they interest us, and we can easily gain valuable information by considering how it would play out and what one should do completely regardless of whether or not it will EVER happen.
"It's not probable" is not a valid reason to dismiss an argument, nor a valid reason to not want to talk about it if you have human values (curiosity).
Did I say that? No.
What the hell was there to misunderstand here? I found it a disturbing analogy because you were comparing the difference between a man and a woman between the difference of an adult and a child. Yes, a child is ALSO weaker than you, thank you for the obvious but doesn't in any fucking way dismiss my point, that there are other MORE IMPORTANT factors between an adult attacking a child, such as the child being mentally undeveloped!
The fact that there's a shared factor doesn't make the disturbing factor in the comparison any less disturbing!
The additional reasons are what I fucking pointed out, they're WHY it's a disturbing analogy, and the shared factor that makes it an analogy in the first place is not a counter argument.
Yes thank you for the completely unnecessary and insulting condescending comment that doesn't actually address the argument.
If you think that I'm wrong, just explain how you think I'm wrong. This is not a pissing contest. Neither of us gain anything if you insult me, and if you find satisfaction with insulting people on the internet you can do it on another site.
I did not "insult you". I expressed exasperation with you. People taking insult when their arguments get rebuked, or when someone acts exhausted with the position they are taking, is really very wearying.Use_Imagination_here said:
There's something we need to get to very quickly before addressing anything else.
See this?
This is not me you are quoting. This is a DIRECT misquote. This is a Topsider quote (you originally respond to it in post #87), yet now you are attributing it to me. Perhaps because I had the unspeakable temerity to respond to a rhetorical question you asked Topsider, and you've spent the entirety of this absurd debate conflating things he said with what I've said.Topsider said:
Of course, I DON'T believe in hitting girls, much as I believe in not hitting anyone. I never got to the point where I thought "I should extend my hitting policy to include men AND women, because equal rights!". I just don't have a hitting policy. I'd need to feel EXTREMELY threatened and/or without retreat, or I'd need to feel someone was in serious danger and required immediate physical assistance, before I'd throw a punch.
I think I've made it pretty clear I consider exception hunting to a general "don't hit" rule inane, and somewhat worrisome when it's limited to a specific gender. I don't run around thinking up reasons why it would be cool for me to start hitting people, and I certainly don't limit those reasons to women just for lulz.Use_Imagination_here said:
As a product of your continued assumption that Topsider and I are the same person, yes.Use_Imagination_here said:
And now you know WHY I keep insisting I didn't. Hurray! You still shouldn't hit women though. You shouldn't hit ANYONE.Use_Imagination_here said:
Good! Good to know.Use_Imagination_here said:
No I think exception hunting for reasons to hit someone...anyone...is "foolish, boring or stupid". It's a waste of everyone's time. If you're being mugged, and feel you need to strike to defend yourself, are you going to stop and think "That guy on the forum said I shouldn't hit"? Exceptions are obvious. If a woman is hulking and violent and posing an imminent threat to you or your loved ones well beings and you see no resolution to the situation beyond cutting loose, you need to do what you need to do, but these situations should be obvious.Use_Imagination_here said:
There's the obvious grim specter of female on male domestic abuse where the waters get muddy, but since we are having this conversation in a thread where a staggering number of men have taken the "I'll smack any ***** or 80 year old man or 5 year old child who steps to me hurr hurr hurr!" perspective on the issue it hardly seems necessary. Nevertheless, if you are a man, and you are reading this, and you have a girlfriend or wife or female family member who physically abuses you, and you are being stalwart because of gender reasons and just taking your beatings, go get help.
Yes, and the level of INTEREST on the subject of "When is it okay for me to hit girls!" on this forum can be a little squirm inducing. This community has shown it has...how to put this..."women issues" at the best of times. That a statistically significant demographic feels the need to constantly hold court on the bracing topic of beating women...women specifically...for the purposes of gender equality is mildly unsettling.Use_Imagination_here said:
Now do you understand why I consider hypothetical exceptions pointless? Because of this. Because of "thank you for the obvious".Use_Imagination_here said:
And we have come full circle! That was not "insulting". It was sarcasm, to express my exhaustion with your leap from me saying "don't hit anyone" to finding my obviously tossed off analogy "disturbing", unless you find all mediocre analogies "disturbing".Use_Imagination_here said:
Which is why I haven't insulted you.Use_Imagination_here said:
Seriously and to anyone reading this, having your argument dismissed, or even ridiculed, or having someone speak to you in a sardonic tone of voice...these are not "insults".
YOU ARE A MORON - Insult. (no, I am not calling you a moron, this is an example)
THAT IS A MORONIC ARGUMENT - Not an insult.
I have not insulted you. I have not even particularly vigorously insulted your argument, other than to say that exception hunting is "boring", at which point you went nuclear, before later saying "THANKS FOR THE OBVIOUS", thus expressing you also find pointing out the obvious to be really boring and unnecessary.
The closest anyone came to insulting anyone is when you read the "don't hit a child analogy" and got all "hoo hoo hoo, how disturbing!", knowing full well what the implication of that was, but even that's not really an insult, it's just unnecessary dramatics. Probably because you've spend 85% of this discussion being confused about who I am and arguing with me about things I never said.
I personally could not bring myself to hit a woman. As a child growing up, i witnessed domestic abuse in my home in many forms, including physical abuse towards my mother. She is one of the most important people in my life, so to see myself hitting a woman, i would instantly think of the abuse my mother suffered.
False equivalence? Probably, but it is how im wired.
False equivalence? Probably, but it is how im wired.
My philosophy is just don't fight ever. Unless you are backed in a corner and have to fight for you life, just avoid fighting. I've been in fights and might have once said if you hit me first I'll hit you back but when I really think about it it's just not worth it. No matter the gender, if you get hit and you can just back away just do it.
Fighting is stupid and uncivilized unless it's for sport between consenting adults.
Fighting is stupid and uncivilized unless it's for sport between consenting adults.
I'm sorry for mistaking you for someone else, but it was an honest mistake and you could've just pointed it out.BloatedGuppy said:
And no, you didn't technically insult ME, but you replied to basically everything that I said with condescension and disrespect. Believe it or not it's possible to make counter arguments without calling my arguments names, and neither of us gained anything when you "expressed exasperation".
A general rule is that if the way you're phrasing will piss someone off, phrase it differently.
I could make a long post against everything else you said that I didn't completely agree with but the topic of the thread was female-male violence and we agree with everything there so what's the fucking point.
If you really wanna argue the value of considering and discussing low probability hypothetical situations then PM me or whatever because this stopped being relevant to the thread when I mistook you for topsider.
It's all good. I'm sorry if you felt I was being a bit snarky with you. This is the 7th or 8th manifestation of this discussion over the last couple of years, and I feel like the "...but what if..." scenarios have been done to death. That's not your fault, of course.Use_Imagination_here said:
And honestly, listening to a thread full of machismo about how guys would "Totally smack some ***** if she deserved it no one steps to me " has left me with a perma-frown.
That has less to do with attitudes towards women and more to do with overly internet "manly" testosterone fueled teenage idiots who think espousing the values of violence will make them look cool.BloatedGuppy said:
I don't know why that would make you feel better but it's true.
And this site has got this really weird atmosphere where people have such strong counter reactions to perceived unfairness, especially when it's generally accepted that discrimination goes the other way around and ESPECIALLY with women that they overblow it the other way around like some weird accelerating discrimination pendulum.
Well as a former class mate of mine said in the past "If she hits like a man, she can take it like a man". Everyone laughed but I see where he is coming from. Some girls would start a fight and hit you but if you fight back, YOU are to blame apparently and the contradicting line of "You can't hit me, i'm a girl", even though she lay the first punch.
Try growing up in East and South of London where in some cases girls are way more violent than boys and would start a massive fist fight if things don't go their way. Where everyone has a story about being held up by a fool with a knife. Yes i've had a knife pointed at me before by two guys and unfortunately that shit happens a lot in this area. Hope that answered your question.ellers07 said:
If somebody's assaulting you, then I don't think it's particularly unreasonable for you to act in self defense. That said, my dad pretty firmly brought me up on the 'you don't hit girls' line of thought from a fairly young age, so if I was ever in a situation where a girl was trying to hit me, then I'd just try to restrain them as unless they happen to be a kick-boxer or something I shouldn't have too much trouble holding them off. In addition to that, if I, a 6'4" 230lbs dude start wailing on a 5'6" girl then I'm well aware that I'm going to look like the villain to anyone watching in that situation regardless of who/what instigated it. At any rate, I'm not exactly living in fear of this scenario playing out, I've managed to survive 21 years thus far without anyone of either gender attempting to lamp me and in the long run I'd really rather not have to hit anybody. Whilst I can't say I have any sympathy for a girl who tries to start a fight with a guy and subsequently gets smacked down, my personal rule is that I don't hit girls, with the exception to the rule being a circumstance such as this:
Dude, if somebody's coming at you with a knife, I think you're well within your rights to floor them. A girl attempting to slap or feebly punch or something is one thing, but I'm not going to fuck about when they're wielding something that can kill me.Feral said:
I never claimed to be a perfect person. I would remind, though, that I did say "If anyone is even a minor threat to me." By which I don't mean a potential threat, but an immediate one, as in they are trying to attack me.Steve Waltz said:
I dont care about gender in that regard, but well I am taller and have more mass as lots of girls and some guys I guess, so I just hesitate more to hit someone who is physically weaker than me. you know, like I wouldnt hit a child either (unless its really necessary)
btw, op, what has being trans to do with anything about this?
btw, op, what has being trans to do with anything about this?
I will and have restrained girls from hitting me but I haven't hit or hurt any.
If it came to it though I would slap a girl if they are hurting me and I can't restrain them.
If it came to it though I would slap a girl if they are hurting me and I can't restrain them.
Well, back in my secondary, and to a degree, in my college, there are people who think that self defense only applies in male v male or a female v male/female situation.
I think it's because people are a little bit too PC nowadays, so they associate any violence towards women, regardless of context as abuse, or a hate crime.
Fuck's sake, I am so tired of Political Correctitude, to paraphrase Croshaw, it
"should drink a bucket of paint and retard itself out of existence"
I think it's because people are a little bit too PC nowadays, so they associate any violence towards women, regardless of context as abuse, or a hate crime.
Fuck's sake, I am so tired of Political Correctitude, to paraphrase Croshaw, it
"should drink a bucket of paint and retard itself out of existence"