Don't like it, Don't buy it

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WhiteTigerShiro

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krazykidd said:
Wasted said:
Add-

"If you don't like it, lets see you make a game better."

-To the list of terrible dismisses of criticism.
I use this one a lot. Not necessarily for "games" but more for game design. People don't realise just how much work and effort goes into game design, it's a lot harder than people think. Just the fact that people think it's so easy show how talented the developpers are. Because they make it look easy.
The problem is that I'm not the one being paid to program. If I'm throwing money at a game, I expect the developer to be willing to put the work into making sure that the game runs properly and is fun to play. It's not a matter of knowing how much "work and effort" goes into it. If it's your job, it's your job. If it's a hobby and the game was free, then yeah I'll be a little more lenient. If I'm expected to pay for a game though, then the developer should be expected to earn the money I spent. If "it's too hard", then get the $%&@ outta the kitchen.
 

clippen05

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Captain_Heavy said:
When I want to buy a game on steam, I go to the forums to read other people's comments and reviews and concerns so that I can make an informed decision about my purchase.

Which is why it very much bothers me when I see "If you don't like it, don't buy it." plastered all over the forum.

People should be able to complain about a product that failed to meet their expectations if not for the sake of the community as a whole, for the sake of the developer who is angering a customer and probably losing money.
See, I was going into this thread assuming you were going to be arguing for the phrase 'Don't like it, Don't buy it.' But instead, you basically summed up what I was going to say in response...
 

zerragonoss

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PainInTheAssInternet said:
It's always people attempting to defend their chosen items of affection.


EDIT:
Also, just ceasing to buy a product isn't very helpful because it tends to throw out the baby with the bathwater. I've never come across an irredeemable product (yet) so it's better to give feedback which can come in the form of complaints. Then they know why their products might not be doing so well or might not have a secure future.
Yes this especially most people don't really take the time to complain about products they dislike, aside form its popular backlash, they complain about things they like or want to like as they want them to be better. Games have a lot going on and it may be worth the price to someone but their are things it could do better that they want to complain about so they can like future games in a series.
 

Smooth Operator

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Yes it seems plenty of people don't understand "Don't like it don't buy it" is the final statement to all other information, as in "These are the facts, if they are not satisfactory then do not buy."
Just saying the final part makes you look like an idiot, which I prefer actually because then I can quickly discern who amongst the crowd has nothing of value to say and filter them out.
 

Tyrant_Valvatorez

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The "Don't like it don't buy it" attitude can fall apart completely in some circumstances, for example Shin Megami Tensei IV in Europe is coming "Summer 2014" a whole year after the US release. It also is digital only and English only.... if all the European fans decided to not buy it then Atlus now has an excuse for not bothering about the Eu market, but at the same time if we do buy it we are supporting their poor publishing which is a very good example of "Don't like it don't buy it" not working or doing what it is supposed to.
 

Scarim Coral

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Agreed, sometime no matter how much reviews and opinions you had read or watched, at the end of the day what truely matter is how much YOU either liked or hated it when playing if YOURSELF!
 

josemlopes

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The hell? Since when is "dont like it dont buy it" used liked that?

The purpose of that is that if you are seeing something that you arent liking then dont buy it to then talk shit about it knowing that you werent on board with it in the first place.

It isnt for cases where someone was into it, bought it and found out it was shit, its for cases where even before buying the game the person constantly trashed the product already and for some reason (brand loyalty, got to have big games of the year, peer pressure of friends, etc...) he ended up buying it to then keep complaining about it.

From time to time you see these people that apparently have so much money they can spend on shit they dont like.
 

MeTalHeD

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josemlopes said:
The hell? Since when is "dont like it dont buy it" used liked that?

The purpose of that is that if you are seeing something that you arent liking then dont buy it to then talk shit about it knowing that you werent on board with it in the first place.

It isnt for cases where someone was into it, bought it and found out it was shit, its for cases where even before buying the game the person constantly trashed the product already and for some reason (brand loyalty, got to have big games of the year, peer pressure of friends, etc...) he ended up buying it to then keep complaining about it.

From time to time you see these people that apparently have so much money they can spend on shit they dont like.
Yeah but, that doesn't even make sense? Why pay for something just to complain about it? There are online reviews that will warn you before buying it.

I bought The Incredible Adventures of Van Helsing (1 and 2) and I am almost done with the first one. I say it deserved the 72/100 it got. It isn't perfect, but I liked it. If I absolutely hated it because it was a bad product, I would want to warn people beforehand, such as using an online review to do so. Steam and Metacritic offer the average Joe and Josephine this opportunity.

But buying the game JUST to trash it? Donate the money to a good cause, please! There are people starving and/or need new video games. Don't be selfish! Donate generously to a needy cause. My Steam account is always open to donations XD

But seriously, how can you know if you don't like it if you don't try it by actually buying it (unless someone donates it free)? It's a contradictory statement.
 

LaoJim

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Thinking about this "Don't like it, don't buy it" is seems like its rarely a good response to someone, simply because it's so obvious, shouldn't need to be said and comes across as rude. Its also a response that is designed to shut down the conversation and seems to imply that the original complainant doesn't have the right to complain.

Where this discussion gets a bit knotty is that it seems to me like there are a number of different forms of this.

1) The original complainant had done basic research on the game, was aware of the games flaws and bought it/is going to buy it anyway.
2) The original complainant had done basic research on the game, but found that it was worse (objectively/subjectively) than they had been led to believe.
3) The original complainant hadn't done basic research on the game and bought something terrible as a result.
4) The original complainant hasn't played the game, has done basic research on the game and presenting a reasonable argument of why he isn't going to buy the game.
5) The original complainant hasn't played the game, isn't going to buy it, and hasn't done basic research on the game but is complaining anyway.

For number 1:
Random Argument Man said:
It's mostly for people who tend to over-exagerate their criticism and probably needed to tone down their ALLCAPS mode.
Zhukov said:
Someone says, "This DLC is overpriced! $10 for two hours of content! What a rip off!"

Now it seems to me that the obvious response to something you consider a rip-off and one which you can see coming is not to partake.
So really what is happening is people are implying that the price was a disadvantage, but the game/DLC had enough advantages that they wanted to buy it anyway (or they have the mentality that because they liked the original game they need to have every sequel/DLC available). In this case you should maybe point out that there must be some advantages to the game or they wouldn't still be buying it, or to ask more directly at what price point they would stop buying it.

For number 2 and 3:
SUPA FRANKY said:
Eh, you should be able to tell if you will enjoy a game by watching gameplay, reading reviews, word of mouth
The point here is that the complainant IS providing "word of mouth" for other people. For 3 this word of mouth might not be very useful in the sense that all the information was already there and the complainant might be late to the party but it might still be useful for someone somewhere.

For number 2 I can probably gain something useful if the poster is able to express well what he knew before buying the game and why that lead him to make a wrong purchase. For example a few months back a poster on this site mentioned that he hadn't liked NFS Most Wanted (the new one) and after I asked directly he said the main reason was that there was little sense of making progress through the game. As a result I held of buying the game until it was a little cheaper as I find that having clear progress though a game influences my motivation to play it (while it matters much less to others). While I'm sure reviews mentioned this disadvantage it didn't jump out at me in the same way it did when it was expressed by complainer and so I found it useful.

For both of these, instead of just saying you shouldn't have bought it, a better way is tell the poster how you specifically knew not to buy it (i.e. link to a review or point out that licenced games are rarely worth buying) assuming you didn't buy/like the game, or to explain why you liked it if you did. In any case try and present your argument with a bit of sympathy to the complainant, even if you secretly think they're a bit of an idiot for not doing the research. "Sorry you didn't like this game, but I had a lot of fun with it" creates a much friendlier atmosphere that "DLI,DBI".

For number 4 and 5:
"Don't like it, don't buy it" isn't quite the phrase as clearly the complainer isn't going to buy it. It's more like "Don't like it, don't complain here, this is a thread for people who like the game". It does lead to this:

PainInTheAssInternet said:
Person A: I won't buy this product because the community is saying it's shit.
Person B: Don't knock it until you try it.
Person A: But it's near-unanimous.
Person B: You haven't played it so you can't judge it.
For number 4 if you feel like the poster is wrong you can engage with them and explain why you think they are overvaluing the disadvantages or undervaluing the advantages of a game using your own experience if you've played the game or referring to reviews/word of mouth otherwise. For number 5 you can just politely say that plenty of other people disagree (objectively/subjectively) with the information the complainant is presenting and leave it there.

Smooth Operator said:
Yes it seems plenty of people don't understand "Don't like it don't buy it" is the final statement to all other information, as in "These are the facts, if they are not satisfactory then do not buy."
Except the long version still comes across as being quite abrupt and still something that shouldn't need to be said.

If you are involved in a long argument with someone who is unreasonable and consistently ignoring facts, then you might want to sign off with such a response. I think the OPs point was that people tend to pull out DLIDBI immediately after the complainants first post without really engaging with might be reasonable points (or genuine concerns that turn out not to be true).

In any case there are nicer ways of finishing the conversation. You mention that its "the final statement", but this seems to assume that someone on the thread has the right to declare the matter finished and settled. If you've argued with someone for a while and you still disagree with them, the nice way of bowing out of the conversation would be something like "I understand your concerns with the game and I don't really have anything more to say about them except that I personally (enjoyed they game)/(am excited about buying it) and would recommend it to anyone who likes [this kind of game]" (or alternatively "I still don't quite understand you concerns because (my experience)/(a lot of what I have heard about the game) says the opposite but I'm not sure there is anything more I can say to convince you") Here you've put your point across as clearly as you can (to both the original complainant and anyone else reading the thread), you've not insulted the person and you let other people continue the discussion if they want, and the other person can't continue to argue without appearing an ass.
 

josemlopes

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MeTalHeD said:
josemlopes said:
The hell? Since when is "dont like it dont buy it" used liked that?

The purpose of that is that if you are seeing something that you arent liking then dont buy it to then talk shit about it knowing that you werent on board with it in the first place.

It isnt for cases where someone was into it, bought it and found out it was shit, its for cases where even before buying the game the person constantly trashed the product already and for some reason (brand loyalty, got to have big games of the year, peer pressure of friends, etc...) he ended up buying it to then keep complaining about it.

From time to time you see these people that apparently have so much money they can spend on shit they dont like.
Yeah but, that doesn't even make sense? Why pay for something just to complain about it? There are online reviews that will warn you before buying it.

I bought The Incredible Adventures of Van Helsing (1 and 2) and I am almost done with the first one. I say it deserved the 72/100 it got. It isn't perfect, but I liked it. If I absolutely hated it because it was a bad product, I would want to warn people beforehand, such as using an online review to do so. Steam and Metacritic offer the average Joe and Josephine this opportunity.

But buying the game JUST to trash it? Donate the money to a good cause, please! There are people starving and/or need new video games. Don't be selfish! Donate generously to a needy cause. My Steam account is always open to donations XD

But seriously, how can you know if you don't like it if you don't try it by actually buying it (unless someone donates it free)? It's a contradictory statement.
You would be suprised by the amount of people that buy stuff they dont want, and then there is also the "I want the game to be what I think it should be" with people complaining before the game is released that most of it needs to be different, and yet they still buy it and act all suprised that no, they didnt change the game based on their comments.
 

Elementary - Dear Watson

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Evonisia said:
It's the same with films, and music. If you unfortunately look down to the comments section on any blog or YouTube you'll often see responses to criticisms be "don't watch it/listen to it if you don't like it".
On YouTube I think it is different though. Quite often you find people who actually go out their ways to watch and heavily criticise videos of a particular genre or artist that they don't like. They know they don't like it, and seek to upset the community who do by negatively posting on multiple videos. You see it a lot on Ambient/Drone music, or on big YouTube stars by just being relentless and watching the videos just to point out corrections and the like.

Here, however, someone saying 'if you don't like it, don't watch it' is just a polite version of 'just fuck off'.
 

happyninja42

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My issue with this subject is the frequency online to describe any criticism of a product as "whining" or "complaining". Sorry but that's just not accurate.

People make products, they make those products and then distribute them to the general public in the hopes that they buy them.

The general public spends their money on said products, in the hopes that it will be a good purchase. After getting the item, they can make an assessment of the quality of the item, and share that with other consumers to inform them.

This isn't a video game/movie specific thing. People have been criticizing products since people were making products to criticize. Consumer's Digest for example, is a published book for decades, that is entirely about this concept. Nothing is perfect, everything has flaws. Pointing them out isn't "whining" it's informing the rest of the community at large so they can make an educated purchase in the future.

Now if you point them out IN ALL CAPS WHILE FOAMING AT THE MOUTH ON YOUTUBE *blargle glarble froth* for example, then yeah, you probably need to chill out and construct your points about the product in a more calm and mature manner.

But if you are simply saying "I don't like this thing, because of *list reasons*" And you do it in a reasonable manner, with some effort to be logical and objective in your statements, then that's fine. Some people might have a similar opinion about the product as you, and will take your critique to heart and not buy the item.

I know personally I've found critiques by others to be highly informative when it came to how I spent my money on various things. From video games, to movies and other things. Even negative reviews, from a person who doesn't share my personal tastes about things were informative. They expressed "I didn't like X because of Y" and I was like "Oh! Well I actually LIKE it when X is because of Y! So I'll probably enjoy that game/movie! I'll go check it out!"

Bottom line:

Don't be an ass about your opinion when sharing it with others, you have every right to voice your views on a product, and you should, but do it in a reasonable manner.
 

Atmos Duality

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Anyone who is using "Don't like it, don't buy it" as a response to someone's buyer's remorse is an idiot. Period.
 

Captain_Heavy

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Yeah the don't like it don't buy it doesn't really fit into it. I can understand if you don't like a series, it makes more sense, but for a game one has never played it doesn't make sense. It makes sense for something like Justin Bieber, if you don't like his music, don't buy it or listen to it.

With video games it doesn't really work.
 

putowtin

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Question? How do you know you don't like it if you don't play it, therefore buying it?
Sarcastic Forum Answer: Read the reviews/ follow the game before hand... noob!
Question? What if I don't want the game spoiling? What if the reviewer has been paid off?
Sarcastic Forum Answer: Ohh f*@k off and go play your facebook games... noob!

My take on games is this, if you really want it you'll buy it
If your not sure, wait until someone you trust has played it and reviewed it or wait till it's cheap!
 

Dalisclock

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Scarim Coral said:
Agreed, sometime no matter how much reviews and opinions you had read or watched, at the end of the day what truely matter is how much YOU either liked or hated it when playing if YOURSELF!
So following this, how is one supposed to know which games are worth the time and money to play?

Becauase as I see it, Reviews exist for this reason. To give you an idea if something is worth buying.
 

Dalisclock

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Bremaine said:
Yeah the don't like it don't buy it doesn't really fit into it. I can understand if you don't like a series, it makes more sense, but for a game one has never played it doesn't make sense. It makes sense for something like Justin Bieber, if you don't like his music, don't buy it or listen to it.

With video games it doesn't really work.
So if a game comes out and 90% of the reviews say the game is shit and not worth the time to press the "buy" button on steam, I still have to play it just in case it might be good?
 

Scarim Coral

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Dalisclock said:
Scarim Coral said:
Agreed, sometime no matter how much reviews and opinions you had read or watched, at the end of the day what truely matter is how much YOU either liked or hated it when playing if YOURSELF!
So following this, how is one supposed to know which games are worth the time and money to play?

Becauase as I see it, Reviews exist for this reason. To give you an idea if something is worth buying.
Ok granted that is true but other times you end up loving a game despite what others has say or review about it like e.g. I loved Phantasy Star Zero, Phantom Crash and Gotcha Force but they got medicore reviews at best. Also those three games were bought AFTER I read the reviews!