Don't you sometimes feel that RPG genre is stupid?
- Thread starter Liquidlizard
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I don't know how to rate the story and/or dialogue, but I'm usually the RPG kind of guy, and I like Kingdom Hearts. Like, really, really much.cainx10a said:That's why there is a genre known as ACTION-RPG; hell, even in the Witcher, I wished there were more enemies to fight that run through the same empty territories over and over again > . >, because the combat was actually decent.Onyx Oblivion said:
Then again, most ACTION-Rpg lacks the ooomph in combat, Titan Quest for example, good game, good amount of combat, but -click * 1000*, get old fast sometimes, and while I have yet to beat the game, mainly because of the fact that the boss fights are as easy as mobs fight -click click pot click click pot-, it just doesn't feel right after a while.
But for one, I LOVE grinding in my games, that's why despite the cheesy, bad-voice acting, awful cutscenes of Phantasy Star Portable, I'm quite enjoying the combat, and looting
While I also play alot of games like Chrono Trigger (DS Remake), Dragon Quest etc that are more focused on story and character development, Kingdom Hearts to me, as a whole, was more memorable and more fun, meaning that is one game I could complete in one sitting, and not get bored, which isn't something I can say about other RPGs.
To be honest, I think your right - alot of RPGs end up in the trap of forcing a grind on people in order to achieve the minimum level of XP/Gold/loot, even in single player.Liquidlizard said:
I've begun to wonder if they can't start from first principles again - go back to the very concept of 'Role Playing' in a game, see what the fans actually what, and then build something new, preferably without the dull bits (not all cutscenes, it has to be said - Anachronox had alot of cutscenes, but they were all built in good places and so interesting that a machinima movie, mostly just the cutscenes themselves, was pasted together and is widely considered 'great').
Of course, the element of 'growth in power/abilities' is wedded to the RPG, so its a hard problem to fix that would remove the grind and keep the goods.
EDIT: That said, I enjoyed Mass Effect, but thats only one game.
I think it's just like with everything else in the industry, there seems to be some winning formula and people will be afraid to change it, at least not before someone notorious (say "Blizzard") does it and is successful.
On the other hand, if you manage you expectations, then you can still enjoy the game on its own terms.
On the other hand, if you manage you expectations, then you can still enjoy the game on its own terms.
I sometimes feel the rpg genre makers are stupid. Also, at times I think the rpg genre fans are stupid.
Then again maybe I'm the one who is stupid and Oblivion is the best game ever. Who can say?
Then again maybe I'm the one who is stupid and Oblivion is the best game ever. Who can say?
As far as I'm concerned, the RPG genre is always a waste of time, it's just that sometimes I actually have the time to waste. I've never found the gameplay particularly fun or amusing - addicting, yes, but more like crack rather than candy. And personally I've never been impressed with the stories in RPGs; usually they're either generic or convoluted, or both - either way it's all a good reason for me to hit the "skip scene" button as fast as possible.
RPG combat is no more a grind then shooting the same weapons at the same people on shooters. Combat is based around simple systems that are constantly repeated. The reason someone would prefer one grind over another grind is the tone and feel of the game. Tone, setting, atmosophere, etc, is why someone would choose one game over another. CoD4 and CoD5 is essentially the exact same thing, but people have there preferences. I loved CoD4. I should have loved CoD5. Essentially, it was the same, yet it did not have that flare. I totally disagree with the assumtion that RPGs, mostly MMOs, are any more repetitive then a shooter or strategy game. How a game feels too the player is what matters.
I think the bigger problem is that some RPG's have become complete grind fests I don't mind if I have to grind every once in a while but if every time I advance the story and move on to a new area I have to back track grind and then return it gets annoying. I think one game that hit the grind to story very well was Ar Tonelico 2 I never felt like I must grind to advance and even when I was technically grinding it was usually to advance another story or for some other side quest. Unlike Final Fantasy 12 where you would hit spots where you must backtrack and mindlessly grind to level up to be able to continue the story.
There is however one huge difference - strategy of action games are direct skill games, whilst RPGs more often than not more rely on your character improving rather than your own skills. Thus they are as one posted here more like something that you are addicted to not because of gameplay process, but character development (new items etc.).Gamer137 said:
I find it odd that so many people say JRPG's are grindy (these days they are) when WRPG's used to not even have stories. Seriously people! You are SPOILED! You would be in the JRPG camp too if you had to choose between Final Fantasy and the latest Dungeon Crawler in the Ultima series...
Seriously... Bioware got the idea to put in a heavy character based story FROM JRPG's, they thought hey, why can't that be done over here?
Seriously... Bioware got the idea to put in a heavy character based story FROM JRPG's, they thought hey, why can't that be done over here?
What they need to do is make the combat good instead of just a time sink. A central pillar of good game design is something repetitive and engaging. Not repetitive and trivially easy.
The RPG is sort of stupid in that it rewards you for doing easy things over and over. Good games reward you for doing things really well and improving your own abilities. It isn't normal for a modern CRPG to have a system to force you to push yourself instead of boring yourself. When they had things like time limits people complained as it added difficulty but games can be improved by adding a little challenge. Persona 3 has time limits but it still lets you grind until you get sick of the game, but maybe most JRPG fans have more tolerance for grinding.
The RPG is sort of stupid in that it rewards you for doing easy things over and over. Good games reward you for doing things really well and improving your own abilities. It isn't normal for a modern CRPG to have a system to force you to push yourself instead of boring yourself. When they had things like time limits people complained as it added difficulty but games can be improved by adding a little challenge. Persona 3 has time limits but it still lets you grind until you get sick of the game, but maybe most JRPG fans have more tolerance for grinding.
As a JRPG fan with little tolerance for grinding, I was going to rip into you... but then I realized you make a good point...More Fun To Compute said:
Why doesn't RPG combat reward you more for cleverness than repetition? Why can't evading an enemy effectively grant you experience as well as defeating them in a protracted and unecessary battle?
This is something addressed slightly better in WRPG's but it still needs some work (ex. Fallout 3, where you can't just sneak, you have to sneak AND kill)
Only JRPGs, really?Patrick_and_the_ricks said:
Do the massive Oblivion and Fallout 3 actually give you much in the way of stimulating gameplay?
Or, heck, look at Mass Effect. That game has a bunch of pretty tedious side missions that involve a lot of same-y driving, a lot of fighting cookie-cutter enemies (using cookie-cutter tactics), and a lot of so-cookie-cutter-it-hurts scenery.
-- Alex
I am an RPG fan, and while I play the game for the story the majority of the time, the game has to have something enjoyable about it that I can keep doing. Random battles suck. They are very repetitive when you are trying to go somewhere. I want an option to turn random battles on and off.
In tons of RPGs, the story is bland and cliche. A lot of RPGs these days (especially JRPGs) tend to have this. The combat is usually lack luster too.
So now that I think about it, the RPG genre is kinda stupid. I'm still gonna play them though.
In tons of RPGs, the story is bland and cliche. A lot of RPGs these days (especially JRPGs) tend to have this. The combat is usually lack luster too.
So now that I think about it, the RPG genre is kinda stupid. I'm still gonna play them though.
I was impressed with Oblivion and Fallout 3, but I got bored, because the combat wasn't very enjoyable, and it took to long to get started. The size of the games and the graphics were nice though. And for the people that toughed it out through the slow beginning, I hope you enjoyed the game.Alex_P said: