Do's and Don'ts of a Dungeon Master?

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Mangod

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Ratty said:
FrozenLaughs said:
Min/maxing is (i believe) the point buy system where you can basically max a couple stats at the expense of everything else "not needed" being a 10.

And if your system doesn't already give max Hit Dice at level 1, do your players a favor and give them it. 3hp Wizards are bullshit.
Yeah, your stereotypical minmaxer is a Barbarian with insane STR etc. but with INT so low they couldn't tie their shoes. A good DM will make them RP as that to.
Meet Minmax the Barbarian.

Great at fighting (+1 to hit, Improved Unarmed Strike, Weapon Proficiency: Furniture); can't write, can't read, can't intentionally rhyme, can't wink, can't dress himself...

Diddy_Mao said:
Work with your players prior to character creation and give them a basic understanding of the kind of story you're wanting to tell and any character/class limitations you might be setting.

If you are limiting character options be prepared to defend it.

"No magic users because the game is set in an Imperial city where magic has been outlawed" is an understandable limit.
"No magic users because magic is dumb and I hate it" ...not so much.


Also, talk with your players to get an idea of what they want their character to accomplish. Adding plot elements to your game that will help them achieve their desired character arc can do wonders for keeping your party on track.
Alternatively, explain to them that they can roll a mage, or sorcerer or whatever, but literally the moment someone sees them use a spell, they're outlaws and the entire city is gonna be looking for them to arrest, kill or worse.
 

LordLundar

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Best advice I can offer is twofold. First off, treat the game as a story, leave the mechanics take a backseat and don't make it the front and center. You will have your players to entertained to worry about whether the sword is a +1 or a +2. Rule of fun, rule of cool, and rule of sadism trumps all.

Second, though it is a story, it is a story the players write. Your role as the DM is to handle stuff that the players do not directly control, like major events in the world not relevant to the players goals or a monster shooting a ranged weapon to see if it hits. When it comes to events that the players are directly involved in, it's their show. It's your show to tell them after the fact how badly they screwed up. :p
 

Therumancer

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Professor Idle said:
I'm playing a Dungeons & Dragons game with my friends online at the moment, and it inspired me to host my own D&D game in the real touchy-feely world!

I've noted a few problems the current Dungeon Master seems to have when creating his world of make-believe, and it got me thinking. Any really obvious traps new Dungeon Masters fall into? Any life-saving advice that totally sparked off your saga as a Dungeon Master?

Even if you have nothing to add, feel free to mention any really sucky stuff that happened to you while playing D&D. It might teach me something and it should provide me with a laugh or two at any rate.
I'll give you a few bits of advice, some of it seemingly contradictory from a very experienced GM (me).

1. Above and beyond everything else remember people are there because they want to play, they aren't going to jump on you for making mistakes or not being the universe's best, most flawless, GM, so relax. Confidence comes with time.

2. Come up with a game theme before the game begins, in terms of the general style of game you want to run, and communicate this to the players. One mistake a lot of GMs make (which is something others encourage people to make) is setting no real guides during character creation. This means you might wind up with a bunch of outright contradictory character types that play tug of war with each other and perhaps even your own campaign concept. Diverse characters and skill sets DO complement each other but only with some forethought. It's very easy to say wind up with a game where you have some "kill everything" battle rager character whose idea of social graces is to not blow his nose on his sleeve in front of a dignitary, and someone else who is a complete diplomat with no combat skills at all. While such a team might be amusing in a novel, in an actual game you can easily wind up with a situation where one or the other's player gets bored and winds up doing something else while the game focuses on a style of game for one that the other cannot participate in much at all. What's more non-combat characters rapidly wind up becoming baggage when you get down to the nitty gritty of the heroic fantasy stuff, and it can be annoying for a GM to literally be put into a position of somewhat arbitrarily killing someomes "deep RP character" because they are just not suited for the inevitable rigors
of dungeon crawling. Some players will argue "well I RP, and am based around this awesome personality so I should be immune" and a few GMs get behind that but it ultimately winds up castrating the game.

When your developing characters I recommend getting everyone together in one room, as opposed to doing them one at a time, or having people make characters on their own. Tell the players what you have in mind for a game theme, whether it's at it's center going to be Viking like, based around using one village or city as a headquarters, roving from place to place, or whatever else. Then let everyone come up with their characters, and you as GM can make suggestions and steer things in directions that will create a party that will be to the likings of the players, but also be able to co-exist peacefully in of itself, and will be able to survive in the environments your setting up.

When it comes to making characters I've gradually arrived at a sort of "F@ck it" conclusion, and generally tend to let the players create what they want without worrying too much about die rolls for attributes and stuff. While there CAN be some fun in random rolls for attributes and such it leads to a lot of problems. For one there is no way to guarantee a functional party, it's very possible in many systems that nobody will even qualify for all the basic adventuring skills a party needs, with say nobody rolling high enough in wisdom to be a healer, or high enough in dex to be a thief. What's more random roll systems can lead to player dis-satisfaction when say someone who wants to play a fighter for example winds up rolling a high intelligence and being stuck as an apprentice mage. For every story about people coming to love their unexpectedly awesome random characters, there are probably ten that end differently. This is why I tend to favor games that have a "point buy" system which I can adjust for my game's power level, and also why so many PnP RPGs are moving in similar directions. When it comes to games that are based around random mechanics I typically will let players set their own attributes and negotiate with them based on the power level of the campaign. I have never really run into a player who say in a old school D&D game will hear this and immediately set all attributes at 18 or anything like that, and of course as GM I'm not going to approve that anyway.

At the end of the day ideally each player should be happy with their character and have something they want to play, the GM should be happy with the characters fitting into his campaign theme, and ideally all of the characters should be able to co-exist and cooperate within the plot. As fun as it might be in a novel or whatever to have infighting, I as GM tend to disallow PCs with some "deep dark secret" that nobody else in the party could possibly know, characters defined as "sociopaths", and shit magnets (oftentimes linked to a secret) that pretty much mandate I throw a constant stream of character oriented bad guys at the party and inconvenience everyone in ways I wouldn't do otherwise specifically for that one PC. One of the quickest ways to drive a wedge in a party I've found is that if everyone seems to spend all their time protecting another PC against backround-inspired weirdos rather than being able to focus on their own stuff. Again, what works in a fantasy novel, does not always work in a PnP RPG.


3. While some GMs will thrive off of ad libbing or "letting the party make their own adventures" that fails as much as it succeeds. In part because a lot of players are going to show up and expect some adventure or plot to be presented and a goal to generally work towards. At least to begin with being a GM takes a lot of work, and planning, and you can never expect the players to take the brunt of the campaign's direction and creativity, though that might at some point happen.

While an Anathema to some, if your interested in GMing, especially for the first time, I actually recommend checking out and using a few adventure modules, of which there are literally thousands out there. Heck there are entire sites full of out of print PDF copies of old adventures, and PnP sites where GMs have been known to put up their own tested creations. Running something like say the ancient "Keep On The Borderlands" or "Isle Of Dread" or perhaps for the more ambitious the truly classic "Temple Of Elemental Evil" or "Night Below". Simply reading modules for ideas and advice isn't the same as actually running them and seeing how the encounters play out, especially in the long "campaign length" ones which escalate the encounters along with carefully programmed PC growth. Something like TOEE has been a GM boot camp for generations of D&D players nowadays, in part because it works, you can learn a LOT from running that where it starts out very easy for both players and GMs but gradually becomes more complex on both ends until the level 15 finale.


4. Be consistent, remember that part of what makes this a "game" as opposed to a collaborative creative writing exercise are the game rules. Feel free to change and modify the rules and make what judgement calls you will (confidence sells it, but when you do stick to your own rulings and be fair about it. If you wind up waffling back and forth over the same kinds of situations constantly that's when your going to run into problems and things will degenerate into a mess of rules lawyering.

Also in terms of being fair, remember also that you need to be fair to the players as well. Case in point, let's say a player comes up with a combination of abilities that is constantly allowing him to grandstand and make a mess out of the campaign to the point where it's ruining game flow and also bugging the other players. For example perhaps some kind of swashbuckler bard build that has him parrying and counter attacking every melee battle to death with minimal risk, which he starts using to pick unlikely and unreasonable fights. What's more the party fighter, who is supposed to be the party's primary melee muscle (with the bard as his backup, given the bard does other things as well) has largely become irrelevant, especially considering the galling point that all he does is fight melee and the Bard could probably trounce him in a straight fight as well as having tons of other skills aside. As a GM you probably want to step in here, but in doing so you don't just want to strip the bard of all of his abilities or make him ineffective, or punish the player for simply using what he had up until that point. If you say reduce the Bard's melee abilities, you should not do so right before putting him in a death match against the king's champion, a guy he never would have challenged if his fighting ability was so much less, or have a bunch of previously trounced opponents show up to curb stomp him now that he can't fight back as well. In extreme cases it's probably best to allow someone to re-build a character, or simply replace the character in mid-game (say the original bard decides to elope with the princess, where a new character is then introduced to the party). The key point here is that as a GM you need to be careful to avoid being vengeful in your rulings and their results even when something annoys you.


5. "It's that unfinished part of the dungeon we feel strangely compelled to avoid"... while rare, sometimes as a GM it's best to do the unheard of, and just explain outside of game why someone can't do something. If say your running an adventure of your own creation and the party is blowing through content much faster than you intended and winds up getting beyond anything you intended for that session... well sometimes it's better to just explain that, than it is to make mistakes in trying to ad-lib it's continuation without planning ahead.

As a GM even when creating my own stuff, I like to have a few modules I'm familiar with handy just in case things go wrong. Sometimes a needed adventure hook doesn't work out quite as planned (the hump backed old man crawls up to the party's table in a bar and immediately falls dead with a treasure map in his hand, and the party ignores it, or charitably has the local temple collect the body and covers his raise dead fees), or the party finishes what I had ready for that session (perhaps cleverly bypassing some stuff) early, it's nice to have something to pad things out while I catch up.

The point is that out of game communication with the players, and pointing out your only human (even if you do it a lot) tends to work out better than trying to play super-GM and imitate the other GMs you "hear about" online and such and cover everything smoothly is in many cases the better option. Many GMs (including me) have GMed themselves into some awkward corners trying to compensate for things they weren't ready for.

6. Once you become more experienced and comfortable that's when you can start doing things like people using characters created for other campaigns, however in doing so it's important to both make especially careful note of what these characters can do and what they are about, and understand that when you are doing something like this your also taking on a bit of extra baggage. However in most cases simply by bringing an old character to a new GM the player is expecting to make changes and work with the new GM. In such cases however if such a character winds up not working out, it's always wise to give them a respectful departure from the game.

The important bit, which also goes for advice on character generation for your own campaign, is that above and beyond the numbers (you can always miss things, especially when it comes to combinations of abilities) is to ask flat out how
a character plays, especially in combat and what their basic strategy and mechanics wind up being like. This is how you avoid problems like the Swashbuckler bard example I mentioned above, and avoid "surprises" like someone say having an apparently crappy armor class, but actually being built around using highly enhanced block/trap actions from the combat and tactics books to override aspects of the usual combat system and outright deflect/parry attacks by forcing enemies into a contest of Dex with a character with maximum Dex and additional skill based modifiers as well (the GM say missing that a +4 on parries does not simply mean 4 extra points of AC). When asked directly most players are honest, and really they can't hide something like this, if someone lies to you, you can always flat out say "it will work as previously discussed".
 

Comic Sans

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While I have never DMed personally, as a player something important to remember is to mix up the encounters a bit. Having all combat can make the utility characters feel useless, and having all role play can make the combat oriented characters without utility skills feel bored. Give the players a chance to interact with the world and do things, then give them some scraps, then some down time where they can do what they will as per their character skills. I like the DM of my current game, but I've been bored these last few sessions because my character has been useless thanks to the situation we are in. We are on a boat headed to a cursed island, a several day journey, with dice rolls every day for random encounters. This means that until we get to the island, there is no chance for role play or any sort of support, just fighting whatever comes at us. I am playing an Alchemist (Pathfinder) of the Mindchemist archetype, I am a utility character who fights with explosives and other splash weapons. On the ship there is not way for me to use my skills, and my combat abilities cannot be used on the boat since throwing bombs, acid flasks, or alchemist fires on a boat is suicide. So almost every fight I cannot do anything but pitifully plink away at the enemy with my crossbow. If you see that a character has very little to do in your situation, adjust it. If I was DMing in my example, I would have done something like lowering the random encounters so we reach the objective faster, so everyone can shine more.

In general, be aware of your party's strengths and plan accordingly. If a player in the party has a unique skillset, try and make situations where it is useful and they can be the ones to lead the way. If one guy put a lot of points into the various Knowledge skills, give them chances to use them. If someone speaks a lot of languages, maybe put some writings into things only they will understand, or talking their way out of fights by having encounters against people who also speak these obscure languages. It rewards people for not just focusing on hitting harder and encourages people to play smarter. Make it more than just fighting and token checks.
 

LadyLightning

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Ultratwinkie said:
This wasn't D&D, it was a game that was in "beta" and was looking to get published. The principle is the same. We started playing the game and the dungeon master gimped me from the start.

I couldn't drive any vehicle, especially any flying vehicle.

Why? He thought I would pull a 9/11 and crash the plane/helicopter/airship into a town or tall building. Killing us all. he also made sure that all the bad stuff happened to me so I couldn't ruin their RP with my comic relief character named "chicken wing."

So let people have their fun, its a game. It ultimately doesn't matter.
Sorry, but you're wrong. Your DM was wrong too - gimping a player is not the right way to deal with problem players. But you fail to realize that your ridiculous character may be ruining the other players' fun. Maybe they want a more serious, roleplay-heavy game, and you're absolutely murdering their suspension of disbelief?

What your DM should have done was take you aside after the session and ask you to create a character that meshes with the setting, and, if you refuse, simply not invite you to play anymore.
 

LadyLightning

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Comic Sans said:
While I have never DMed personally, as a player something important to remember is to mix up the encounters a bit. Having all combat can make the utility characters feel useless, and having all role play can make the combat oriented characters without utility skills feel bored. Give the players a chance to interact with the world and do things, then give them some scraps, then some down time where they can do what they will as per their character skills. I like the DM of my current game, but I've been bored these last few sessions because my character has been useless thanks to the situation we are in. We are on a boat headed to a cursed island, a several day journey, with dice rolls every day for random encounters. This means that until we get to the island, there is no chance for role play or any sort of support, just fighting whatever comes at us. I am playing an Alchemist (Pathfinder) of the Mindchemist archetype, I am a utility character who fights with explosives and other splash weapons. On the ship there is not way for me to use my skills, and my combat abilities cannot be used on the boat since throwing bombs, acid flasks, or alchemist fires on a boat is suicide. So almost every fight I cannot do anything but pitifully plink away at the enemy with my crossbow. If you see that a character has very little to do in your situation, adjust it. If I was DMing in my example, I would have done something like lowering the random encounters so we reach the objective faster, so everyone can shine more.

In general, be aware of your party's strengths and plan accordingly. If a player in the party has a unique skillset, try and make situations where it is useful and they can be the ones to lead the way. If one guy put a lot of points into the various Knowledge skills, give them chances to use them. If someone speaks a lot of languages, maybe put some writings into things only they will understand, or talking their way out of fights by having encounters against people who also speak these obscure languages. It rewards people for not just focusing on hitting harder and encourages people to play smarter. Make it more than just fighting and token checks.
Or your DM can simply realize that the Alchemist's Bomb class feature is NOT Alchemist's Fire the item, it does NOT deal lingering damage, and thus does NOT have the napalm-like sticky qualities of the item. Thus, on a ship that's CONSTANTLY SOAKED IN SEAWATER, as long as you aim your bombs away from the sails, you should be fine.

If you REALLY need to push the issue, you could simply refer to the fact that, unless an ability explicitly says that it damages scenery/terrain/objects, it generally does not. Remember, spells like Lightning Bolt have to specifically state that they can destroy metal objects with low enough melting points.

And if your DM still persists in saying "You can't throw alchemist bombs on a boat because reasons," then you take the cold damage bomb discovery and use that for a while. It comes with a nice stagger effect too, which adds some nice crowd control effects to your combat, allowing you to be a utility character that uses utility abilities in combat that just happen to also cause damage :p
 

Comic Sans

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LadyLightning said:
Comic Sans said:
While I have never DMed personally, as a player something important to remember is to mix up the encounters a bit. Having all combat can make the utility characters feel useless, and having all role play can make the combat oriented characters without utility skills feel bored. Give the players a chance to interact with the world and do things, then give them some scraps, then some down time where they can do what they will as per their character skills. I like the DM of my current game, but I've been bored these last few sessions because my character has been useless thanks to the situation we are in. We are on a boat headed to a cursed island, a several day journey, with dice rolls every day for random encounters. This means that until we get to the island, there is no chance for role play or any sort of support, just fighting whatever comes at us. I am playing an Alchemist (Pathfinder) of the Mindchemist archetype, I am a utility character who fights with explosives and other splash weapons. On the ship there is not way for me to use my skills, and my combat abilities cannot be used on the boat since throwing bombs, acid flasks, or alchemist fires on a boat is suicide. So almost every fight I cannot do anything but pitifully plink away at the enemy with my crossbow. If you see that a character has very little to do in your situation, adjust it. If I was DMing in my example, I would have done something like lowering the random encounters so we reach the objective faster, so everyone can shine more.

In general, be aware of your party's strengths and plan accordingly. If a player in the party has a unique skillset, try and make situations where it is useful and they can be the ones to lead the way. If one guy put a lot of points into the various Knowledge skills, give them chances to use them. If someone speaks a lot of languages, maybe put some writings into things only they will understand, or talking their way out of fights by having encounters against people who also speak these obscure languages. It rewards people for not just focusing on hitting harder and encourages people to play smarter. Make it more than just fighting and token checks.
Or your DM can simply realize that the Alchemist's Bomb class feature is NOT Alchemist's Fire the item, it does NOT deal lingering damage, and thus does NOT have the napalm-like sticky qualities of the item. Thus, on a ship that's CONSTANTLY SOAKED IN SEAWATER, as long as you aim your bombs away from the sails, you should be fine.

If you REALLY need to push the issue, you could simply refer to the fact that, unless an ability explicitly says that it damages scenery/terrain/objects, it generally does not. Remember, spells like Lightning Bolt have to specifically state that they can destroy metal objects with low enough melting points.

And if your DM still persists in saying "You can't throw alchemist bombs on a boat because reasons," then you take the cold damage bomb discovery and use that for a while. It comes with a nice stagger effect too, which adds some nice crowd control effects to your combat, allowing you to be a utility character that uses utility abilities in combat that just happen to also cause damage :p
Valid points. However, he is well aware of how my bombs work, and I did find a workaround of crafting Liquid Ice in my downtime and throwing that in fights when I can. The problem being that it's not a big sailing ship we're on. It's a barge. A very small barge with no below decks, it's essentially almost flat. Even my gnome can hoist himself back onto the deck if he was to fall overboard. As such, the worry is that a bit of an explosive force, or a bit of acid or whatever, could damage the deck and cause us to start taking water in a fight. It's less about lighting things on fire (except for Alchemist Fire) and more about not taking the ship apart and causing more issues. I won't press the issue in any case, we are going to reach our destination pretty quick into our next session. We were meant to hit it last section but alas, we had a random encounter with a ghost that none of us were prepared for. That was an interesting one.

Frost bombs are something I plan to take on my next Discovery. I always take precise bombs first to avoid friendly fire, and took strafe bombs because I read it and it sounded awesome. I have no idea how it works in a literal, physical sense, but dammit shooting forward a 40 foot wall of flame is awesome and I wanted it. lol
 

LadyLightning

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Mangod said:
Ratty said:
FrozenLaughs said:
Min/maxing is (i believe) the point buy system where you can basically max a couple stats at the expense of everything else "not needed" being a 10.

And if your system doesn't already give max Hit Dice at level 1, do your players a favor and give them it. 3hp Wizards are bullshit.
Yeah, your stereotypical minmaxer is a Barbarian with insane STR etc. but with INT so low they couldn't tie their shoes. A good DM will make them RP as that to.
Meet Minmax the Barbarian.

Great at fighting (+1 to hit, Improved Unarmed Strike, Weapon Proficiency: Furniture); can't write, can't read, can't intentionally rhyme, can't wink, can't dress himself...

Diddy_Mao said:
Work with your players prior to character creation and give them a basic understanding of the kind of story you're wanting to tell and any character/class limitations you might be setting.

If you are limiting character options be prepared to defend it.

"No magic users because the game is set in an Imperial city where magic has been outlawed" is an understandable limit.
"No magic users because magic is dumb and I hate it" ...not so much.


Also, talk with your players to get an idea of what they want their character to accomplish. Adding plot elements to your game that will help them achieve their desired character arc can do wonders for keeping your party on track.
Alternatively, explain to them that they can roll a mage, or sorcerer or whatever, but literally the moment someone sees them use a spell, they're outlaws and the entire city is gonna be looking for them to arrest, kill or worse.
^ This. Having played numerous mages in sort of historically-accurate witch hunt type of settings, I can honestly say that wracking my brain to figure out how to be a contributing party member, while not letting any of them discover that I'm a witch, is so much fun. It really highlights the "spell disguising" metamagic feats Silent Spell and Still Spell, which previously only had debuff mitigation purposes, and, with a good DM, it really gives the magician's social skill ranks a chance to shine. Perhaps disguising that Bull's Strength spell you just handed your party's zealous witch-hunting Paladin as an encouraging pat on the shoulder, or building a spellsword type of character which focuses on very subtle self-buffing magic.

It really put me in the mindset of the BBC Merlin series, where my character had to hide her magic from the party, and eventually was able to convince them and, afterwards, the realm as a whole, that there actually are "good witches" and "bad witches."
 

LadyLightning

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Makes sense, Comic, but truth be told, the explosive force thing is another assumption that people make about any magical effect(or quasi-magical, in your case) that ~looks~ like an explosion must ~behave~ like a real-world explosion. In fact, at least in Pathfinder, an ability that does not include any sort of knockback mechanic or deal Force damage does not have any explosive force. A wizard's Fireball spell is not an explosion ~ it does not knock things off of pedestals. It is simply a flash fire. I would imagine that an Alchemist's bombs would work the same way, up to the point where you choose to take a discovery that changes the damage type to Force or adds any sort of knockback mechanic.

EDIT: Also, the liquid ice thing is only a viable workaround at 1st and 2nd level. The moment you hit 3rd level and your bombs get bumped up to 2d6, your DM is gimping you by making you use them instead of your class feature.
 

TheCaptain

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Hey, I'm a little late to the party and everything really important has already been said I think, but there's two publications I'd like to recommend. "Robin's Laws Of Good Game Mastering" and "Hamlet's Hitpoints", both written by game designer Robin D. Laws and available digitally. "Robin's Laws" deals directly with the challenges a Pen & Paper DM might face; I found the sections on how to reconcile different player types and their needs within the same campaign especially helpful.

That's one of my most dreaded pitfalls, by the way: As a player, the most important part to me is the storytelling and character development, and I got some players in my group who feel the same way, so it's awfully easy to forget about the part of the group who are more into the procedural side of the game.

Anyway, "Hamlet's Hit Points" is about how to pace a story and how to balance problems and solutions both in more character-oriented and procedural setting by analyzing three well-known stories beat-for-beat.

At the end of the day, there's nothing new in the publications - it's all stuff you probably already know, at least subconciously. But it's always been very helpful for me to conciously go through kind of a mental checklist before charging into the fray.
 

Silverfox99

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I only have one rule to follow as a GM. My only job is to apply consequences to the actions of the characters. To have the characters makes their choices and have the GM react to them the GM needs a world for that to happen in. Beyond that the characters will tell their own story, if you are good about thinking and applying consequences. The actions of the characters will guide you in the best direction for the character development. I rarely start off a game with any plans for plots. What I do have is things going on in the world. (a evil mage trying to raise the dead in the catacombs under the church, unhappy dwarves trying to fight for more political power, rumors of a magical sword forgotten and lost...etc) I tell the players what is going on when they start to wonder and question. If they don't question I will allow those things to increase based on the heroes not being heroes. (Undead start to attack the town, dwarves are battling the town guard shouting about fair treatment, someone at the bar wonders if they should try to find the sword or tells a sad story of a friend dying because they tried to get it...etc) The adventure can mostly take care of its self and this style allows me to thinking more and work less as a GM. Which is the most enjoyable part for me.
 

FrozenLaughs

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LadyLightning said:
Makes sense, Comic, but truth be told, the explosive force thing is another assumption that people make about any magical effect(or quasi-magical, in your case) that ~looks~ like an explosion must ~behave~ like a real-world explosion. In fact, at least in Pathfinder, an ability that does not include any sort of knockback mechanic or deal Force damage does not have any explosive force. A wizard's Fireball spell is not an explosion ~ it does not knock things off of pedestals. It is simply a flash fire. I would imagine that an Alchemist's bombs would work the same way, up to the point where you choose to take a discovery that changes the damage type to Force or adds any sort of knockback mechanic.
"A fireball spell generates a searing explosion of flame that detonates with a low roar and deals 1d6 points of fire damage per caster level (maximum 10d6) to every creature within the area. Unattended objects also take this damage. The explosion creates almost no pressure."
~Pathfinder


People don't read all the descriptions to their spells 9/10 times. This is another great piece of advice for a new DM.

"Explosive bomb*:
The alchemist's bombs now have a splash radius of 10 feet rather than 5 feet. Creatures that take a direct hit from an explosive bomb catch fire, taking 1d6 points of fire damage each round until the fire is extinguished. Extinguishing the flames is a full-round action that requires a Reflex save. Rolling on the ground provides the target with a +2 to the save. Dousing the target with at least 2 gallons of water automatically extinguishes the flames."
~Alchemist Discovery


This is what you're referring to. Again, you've illustrated a perfect example of using real world interpretation for terms like "blast" and "fire damage".

"Blast" only means "rapidly expanding" unless the description specifically includes reference to force.

"Fire damage" only means "intense heat" unless the description specifically states it adds damage over time or ignites flammable objects. Scorching Ray, for example, is Fire descriptor; nowhere does it say it ignites objects.
 

Cerebrawl

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Alakaizer said:
DO NOT let other players do your job. Earlier in the World of Darkness game, our group was plotting an infiltration of a corporate office when one of the characters mentions "My boss is gay," to attempt to stonewall our femme fatale. OK, that might have made it more challenging, but that shouldn't have come from another player during the planning stage. It should have been dropped on us by the GM during the mission.
Actually letting the players do your job is an excellent way of keeping the game flowing in a more free-form games. Heck you only need a hook at the start to get them going, then you can just make the story up as you go along, responding to what the players are doing. It helps to have a solid setting and some background plots, but letting your players get themselves in trouble and just responding logically at every turn can lead to some really fun adventures.

Urgency: Try to instill the players with a sense of urgency, of being in trouble, have them make powerful enemies they have to avoid, or a superior/authority they have to fear and obey give them tasks they must complete, or get them in trouble with the law, or have a powerful individual or organization blackmail them. Urgency means never having the problem of boredom. Even the "what do we do now?" question turns into one tinged with desperation rather than boredom. It keeps them IMMERSED.
 

Blunderboy

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sanquin said:
Very important one: Do not, under any circumstance, expect the players to follow the story you thought about. They are not you. They might do things in a way you didn't even think about, or might want to do something different altogether. Just...always keep in mind that your players can very quickly stray from the path you gave them.
This.
In my current game of Mage Noir (nWoD 1940's Mages) we had to reclaim a magical item from the vaults of a bank. He'd envisioned either an elaborate heist or us taking it on the move. Instead, one of us was a cop, one of us was impersonating an FBI agent, and I could turn invisible.
The cop and the fake agent walked it and tried to claim it as evidence, when that failed I strolled in and took it while they distracted the bank manager.
It took about 15 minutes. Luckily our GM is awesome and always has several stories planned.

Also, it's worth repeating, let the players have their fun. Don't be a dick. Don't force them to solve a puzzle or resolve a situation 'your way'. If they come up with another way that makes sense, embrace that.
 

Comic Sans

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FrozenLaughs said:
LadyLightning said:
Makes sense, Comic, but truth be told, the explosive force thing is another assumption that people make about any magical effect(or quasi-magical, in your case) that ~looks~ like an explosion must ~behave~ like a real-world explosion. In fact, at least in Pathfinder, an ability that does not include any sort of knockback mechanic or deal Force damage does not have any explosive force. A wizard's Fireball spell is not an explosion ~ it does not knock things off of pedestals. It is simply a flash fire. I would imagine that an Alchemist's bombs would work the same way, up to the point where you choose to take a discovery that changes the damage type to Force or adds any sort of knockback mechanic.
"A fireball spell generates a searing explosion of flame that detonates with a low roar and deals 1d6 points of fire damage per caster level (maximum 10d6) to every creature within the area. Unattended objects also take this damage. The explosion creates almost no pressure."
~Pathfinder


People don't read all the descriptions to their spells 9/10 times. This is another great piece of advice for a new DM.

"Explosive bomb*:
The alchemist's bombs now have a splash radius of 10 feet rather than 5 feet. Creatures that take a direct hit from an explosive bomb catch fire, taking 1d6 points of fire damage each round until the fire is extinguished. Extinguishing the flames is a full-round action that requires a Reflex save. Rolling on the ground provides the target with a +2 to the save. Dousing the target with at least 2 gallons of water automatically extinguishes the flames."
~Alchemist Discovery


This is what you're referring to. Again, you've illustrated a perfect example of using real world interpretation for terms like "blast" and "fire damage".

"Blast" only means "rapidly expanding" unless the description specifically includes reference to force.

"Fire damage" only means "intense heat" unless the description specifically states it adds damage over time or ignites flammable objects. Scorching Ray, for example, is Fire descriptor; nowhere does it say it ignites objects.
Might I ask where that bomb description comes from? We were working out of what it says in the Advanced Players Handbook, which is as follows:

In addition to magical extracts, alchemists are adept at swiftly mixing various volatile chemicals and infusing them with their magical reserves to create powerful bombs that they can hurl at their enemies. An alchemist can use a number of bombs each day equal to his class level + his Intelligence modifier. Bombs are unstable, and if not used in the round they are created, they degrade and become inert?their method of creation prevents large volumes of explosive material from being created and stored. In order to create a bomb, the alchemist must use a small vial containing an ounce of liquid catalyst?the alchemist can create this liquid catalyst from small amounts of chemicals from an alchemy lab, and these supplies can be readily refilled in the same manner as a spellcaster's component pouch. Most alchemists create a number of catalyst vials at the start of the day equal to the total number of bombs they can create in that day?once created, a catalyst vial remains usable by the alchemist for years.
With this description it's quite easy to see how we could come to the conclusion that hurling these on the deck of a flat wooden boat while out on a monster infested lake would not be considered a good idea. It seems we were working off different sources, with yours being more specific than the source book we were working out of.
 

FrozenLaughs

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Comic Sans said:
"Explosive bomb*:
The alchemist's bombs now have a splash radius of 10 feet rather than 5 feet. Creatures that take a direct hit from an explosive bomb catch fire, taking 1d6 points of fire damage each round until the fire is extinguished. Extinguishing the flames is a full-round action that requires a Reflex save. Rolling on the ground provides the target with a +2 to the save. Dousing the target with at least 2 gallons of water automatically extinguishes the flames."
~Alchemist Discovery


Might I ask where that bomb description comes from? We were working out of what it says in the Advanced Players Handbook, which is as follows:

In addition to magical extracts, alchemists are adept at swiftly mixing various volatile chemicals and infusing them with their magical reserves to create powerful bombs that they can hurl at their enemies. An alchemist can use a number of bombs each day equal to his class level + his Intelligence modifier. Bombs are unstable, and if not used in the round they are created, they degrade and become inert?their method of creation prevents large volumes of explosive material from being created and stored. In order to create a bomb, the alchemist must use a small vial containing an ounce of liquid catalyst?the alchemist can create this liquid catalyst from small amounts of chemicals from an alchemy lab, and these supplies can be readily refilled in the same manner as a spellcaster's component pouch. Most alchemists create a number of catalyst vials at the start of the day equal to the total number of bombs they can create in that day?once created, a catalyst vial remains usable by the alchemist for years.
With this description it's quite easy to see how we could come to the conclusion that hurling these on the deck of a flat wooden boat while out on a monster infested lake would not be considered a good idea. It seems we were working off different sources, with yours being more specific than the source book we were working out of.
The Explosive Bomb discovery is listed in the standard list of Alchemist Discoveries. I was illustrating that people equate "bomb=explosive" when reading the standard description of the ability. They assume a level of pressure, displaced air, heat, flash and fire. The standand bomb isn't much more than a firework; an M80 or smaller, if you will. It doesn't cause a lot of pressure displacement, it doesn't ignite objects, but hold it in your hand as an average level 1 commoner and lose your hand. Throw it at a CR3 Walrus and the effect is a bit less intimidating.

It's the Discoveries that turn it into effects like "C4" "Napalm" and "Liquid Nitrogen".


I'm trying real hard to explain it in real world terms to illustrate the differences between what people perceive by overlapping reality views with fantasy concepts. They aren't perfect examples, but I hope you get what I'm saying. :)
 

chozo_hybrid

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Question!

Everyone has been saying that you have to allow the players to do what they want, be respectful to them etc. All makes sense. My question is, as the GM/DM, all the work you put into stuff (my group is fine) is it reasonable to expect some respect for the time and effort put into running a campaign? I hear stories all the time about how players screw up a whole campaign in some unfathomable way and the word is that the GM/DM just has to deal with it. That comes across as a bit unfair, why is that the general consensus?
 

FrozenLaughs

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chozo_hybrid said:
Question!

Everyone has been saying that you have to allow the players to do what they want, be respectful to them etc. All makes sense. My question is, as the GM/DM, all the work you put into stuff (my group is fine) is it reasonable to expect some respect for the time and effort put into running a campaign? I hear stories all the time about how players screw up a whole campaign in some unfathomable way and the word is that the GM/DM just has to deal with it. That comes across as a bit unfair, why is that the general consensus?
In pick up games at a store, it can be a crap shoot whether the players respect your efforts or not. In a group of friends, you should already know how a player will treat you. Generally, any experienced player will respect your work. Anyone who has tried (successful or not) at running their own will respect you more. It's 10x harder than it looks.
 

ShadowStar42

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chozo_hybrid said:
Question!

Everyone has been saying that you have to allow the players to do what they want, be respectful to them etc. All makes sense. My question is, as the GM/DM, all the work you put into stuff (my group is fine) is it reasonable to expect some respect for the time and effort put into running a campaign? I hear stories all the time about how players screw up a whole campaign in some unfathomable way and the word is that the GM/DM just has to deal with it. That comes across as a bit unfair, why is that the general consensus?
No, as the GM/DM you don't just have to deal with it, as the GM you can always say no. It's a tricky situation though, some players may drop your game if they feel that any restrictions are being placed on their actions. Those players often aren't worth fighting for IMO but if they're friends or if the game will fall apart without them it can be a tricky situation. As the GM you have the responsibility of creating a fair and interesting story that focuses on the player's characters. As players they have the responsibility of taking the role of protagonist in the story set before them. If they aren't holding their end of the bargain tell them that.