Dota 2's automated mute system - Valve's most prominent stuff up

[VladG]

Surprising, usually Valve is ahead of the curve with the auxiliary systems of Dota 2. I personally am a strong supporter of the Tribunal, which is actually a VERY good system (not perfect, nothing is). Though considering how much Riot actually invests in player behaviour, it makes sense that they have a better system in place.


Hopefully it's something they are trying out and will either drastically improve or phase out. Valve tends to listen to player feedback (as long as you don't mention HL3). Overall, I think it's beneficial to try out different systems and hopefully come up with an even better solution.

 

[ResonanceSD]

"Oh no, now other people are selling tickets on to other gamers for 4x the price, if only we could have predicted this".

10 times the price today evening bro. If you can find them at 4 times, buy and resell IMO.

As for the tournament itself, last one was often called the best organized tournament in the history of e-sports by various pro casters, mainly from SC, that went there. I am not sure you can blame reselling tickets on Valve, personally don't see how making them not tradable would solve anything as making a steam account and getting dota are both free in practice, but might be missing something.

Not tradeable = only the account that buys the ticket can use it. As if you'd go around creating multiple accounts for that. And then you'd have to go about buying and selling steam accounts, which valve take a dim view of.

 

[Daystar Clarion]

Finally, Jugg is barely a carry, certainly not a hard carry. He is a good mid game dominator and tempo controller. Sadly he also won't be used almost at all, his chances of being picked are even lower than enigma's IMO.

I'm not listening, la la laaaaaaaaaaaa!

It's Okay Jugg, I still love you, shhh, it's okay.

 

[endtherapture]

People are getting week long chat bans now, and we only have 2 reports a week.

volvo u dun goofed

Finally, Jugg is barely a carry, certainly not a hard carry. He is a good mid game dominator and tempo controller. Sadly he also won't be used almost at all, his chances of being picked are even lower than enigma's IMO.

Juggernaut is used REALLY often in pro games. Enigma is basically trash tier now, he's a terrible version of Magnus.

 

[ResonanceSD]

People are getting week long chat bans now, and we only have 2 reports a week.

volvo u dun goofed

Finally, Jugg is barely a carry, certainly not a hard carry. He is a good mid game dominator and tempo controller. Sadly he also won't be used almost at all, his chances of being picked are even lower than enigma's IMO.

Juggernaut is used REALLY often in pro games. Enigma is basically trash tier now, he's a terrible version of Magnus.

You know who needs a Nerf? Phantom Motherfucking Lancer.

 

[endtherapture]

PL needs a nerf. Nerf his nuke, nerf juxtapose illusion chance, nerf his insane stupid aglity growth.

 

[Ryank1908]

As for the graphical style, it surprises me that people struggle with LoL. I know it's a lot more vibrant but for me that really helps me distinguish what's going on. This may well be because I'm colour-blind and I struggle with a lot of the colours that DotA uses - earthy colours like brown-greens, and darker shades like certain blue/purple shades. I find LoL uses a lot more contrast and stands out a lot more. I've never felt that, if a skill shot hits me in LoL, that it hasn't been my own fault, or that there wasn't something I could have done to escape it -- bar the few perfect trap shots. Particles always stand out distinctly for me, possibly because LoL uses a lot of bright primary colours that I don't have any colour-blindness issues with.

Im not quite sure what colourblindness is like, but your definition of contrast is kind of skewed.

You're saying the contrast on a map consisting of bright green, yellows, reds and purples, overlayed by skill effects that are also bright yellow, white, red and so on...

have more contrast than

bright colors overlaying a darkey brown, green, grey map.

con·trast [v. kuhn-trast, kon-trast; n. kon-trast]
the relative difference between light and dark areas

Don't begin a sentence saying 'I don't know what it's like for you' and then say something where you presume to be objective about the topic.

 

[ItsNotRudy]

As for the graphical style, it surprises me that people struggle with LoL. I know it's a lot more vibrant but for me that really helps me distinguish what's going on. This may well be because I'm colour-blind and I struggle with a lot of the colours that DotA uses - earthy colours like brown-greens, and darker shades like certain blue/purple shades. I find LoL uses a lot more contrast and stands out a lot more. I've never felt that, if a skill shot hits me in LoL, that it hasn't been my own fault, or that there wasn't something I could have done to escape it -- bar the few perfect trap shots. Particles always stand out distinctly for me, possibly because LoL uses a lot of bright primary colours that I don't have any colour-blindness issues with.

Im not quite sure what colourblindness is like, but your definition of contrast is kind of skewed.

You're saying the contrast on a map consisting of bright green, yellows, reds and purples, overlayed by skill effects that are also bright yellow, white, red and so on...

have more contrast than

bright colors overlaying a darkey brown, green, grey map.

con·trast [v. kuhn-trast, kon-trast; n. kon-trast]
the relative difference between light and dark areas

Don't begin a sentence saying 'I don't know what it's like for you' and then say something where you presume to be objective about the topic.

The definition of 'contrast' remains. Even if the field were black and white, a light skill effect on a black layer is still more of a contrast than white on white.

 

[Tanakh]

I'm not listening, la la laaaaaaaaaaaa!

It's Okay Jugg, I still love you, shhh, it's okay.

I am not saying he is a bad hero, he is a great one, fun, ballsy and useful. But his chances of being picked in the TI or the qualifiers should be around 10% and if you try to play him as a hard carry chances are he will disappoint you.

Also 10% is really not bad at all, some of my favourite heroes like axe or slark should be around 1%. His weakness if he had one is that LS can do the strong mid game into carry role much better, if with less control and utility, and girls like TA or QoP can do the mid game dominators just better.

 

[Tanakh]

Not tradeable = only the account that buys the ticket can use it. As if you'd go around creating multiple accounts for that. And then you'd have to go about buying and selling steam accounts, which valve take a dim view of.

Yeah, I have been thinking about that... here's the thing, when I buy something I like to think I own it unless I knew beforehand I didn't. Let me give you an example, when I buy a videogame from valve I know I won't be able to resell it, and I am only fine about it because I knew the terms; if I buy a ticket to a concert I do expect to be able to do whatever I want with it, that's I would have had a problem with ticket blocking after the selling.

Now, I do see your point, however for my taste Valve only had 2 ways to go about this that I would find morally sound, either bound them before the sell and telling you that you would need to present an ID that was consistent with the steam account info (kinda totalitarian but whatev) or just do what they did. It was a bit of an oversight for sure, but I would keep the pitchforks in the closet for this one, I am more annoyed at them for releasing collections on sale and then not allowing me to gift the games that I already had before buying the bundle.

 

[Tanakh]

You know who needs a Nerf? Phantom Motherfucking Lancer.

You do realize he has a win rate lower than 50% in the current pro scene right? I can see the argument being made that he is a boring hero, and that he bring back the old boring farm that made infamous the eastern scene back in warcraft DotA. However OP? He has almost the same games played and win rate as the current Jakiro, hardly remarkable. He does get better in pub games where people think it's a good idea to drool instead of think and leave him solo farming for 50 mins.

Now, wisp or batrider? Those guys are scary motherfuckers in capable hands.

 

[Tanakh]

Juggernaut is used REALLY often in pro games. Enigma is basically trash tier now, he's a terrible version of Magnus.

I am not saying you are lying, but numbers tell me you really don't know what you are talking about.

I would suggest you to visit http://www.datdota.com/ , because reality and your perceptions do not match.

 

[Trinab]

Phantom Lancer is easily countered by good AoE and stealth detection from the other team. Problem is most PuG games do not have people basing their choice of character and build on countering the enemy, making Phantom Lancer sometimes scary.

Countering Riki though, is an utter joy. So many Riki players seem to rage quit after dying a few times because the other team, gasp, placed a few sentry wards. How dare they?!

 

[endtherapture]

Juggernaut is used REALLY often in pro games. Enigma is basically trash tier now, he's a terrible version of Magnus.

I am not saying you are lying, but numbers tell me you really don't know what you are talking about.

I would suggest you to visit http://www.datdota.com/ , because reality and your perceptions do not match.

The pro games I've watched recently see Juggernaut picked up fairly often, not as a carry, but as an off-laner and a roamer. Don't care about your numbers, I've seen pros pick him with my own
eyes very often.

EDIT: Got the numbers to back it up now. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1G9Yk1S_AR1xBwiKJq46usASxgVBBlCwihjlhATNFCOM/pub Juggernaut picked 132 times in pro games in April, giving him more picks than Storm Spirit, Templar Assassin, Chaos Knight, Jakirio, Tinker and Undying.

 

[5ilver]

Hey, at least you're not getting banned. I've seen people getting banned via the Tribunal without having done anything even remotely ban-worthy.

Example: The guy that made AP Tryndamere popular got banned because he tried playing jungle Mordekaiser at high Elo. I'm not even kidding, that's ALL he did and he got banned for it.

 

[5ilver]

Repeatedly using multiple accounts to get someone in trouble while using the same IP sounds like a really good way to get banned from DOTA 2 permanently if not losing your entire steam account. You don't think they log that shit? This is valve we are talking about.

NOBODY is going to watch the potentially MILLIONS of players for this sort of thing. Maybe if at some point reporting a person has a chance of getting him banned, someone will check into the reports. But for a mute? Ain't nobody got time for that.

 

[ItsNotRudy]

Phantom Lancer is easily countered by good AoE and stealth detection from the other team. Problem is most PuG games do not have people basing their choice of character and build on countering the enemy, making Phantom Lancer sometimes scary.

Countering Riki though, is an utter joy. So many Riki players seem to rage quit after dying a few times because the other team, gasp, placed a few sentry wards. How dare they?!

Pub players don't buy wards huehue.

 

[Mycroft Holmes]

NOBODY is going to watch the potentially MILLIONS of players for this sort of thing. Maybe if at some point reporting a person has a chance of getting him banned, someone will check into the reports. But for a mute? Ain't nobody got time for that.

Are we talking about potential or are we talking about reality? Because reality says there is only around a million players playing DOTA 2 at this point. And your argument is that absolutely every single one of them is going to make 15 separate accounts using presumably 15 separate CD keys just to frame someone for a minor crime in a videogame to get them muted? Yeah I don't think so. I think there would be maybe a few thousand people who would attempt such abuse. And that's likely being generous.

Statistics are easy to track. And it's one of the things Steam/Valve does well. You think tracking a a million IPs and 15 million accounts is difficult? Go check l4d2 statistics. Forbes reported 4 million sales in retail alone, ignoring the digital copies purchased. For every single one of those people, for every single game they have ever played: steam has cataloged and uploaded hundreds of statistics. I can look up the damage ration between shells and bullets. Valve is the company that knows I have killed 59,776 infected zombies. It knows that I have swung a golf club 4 times and killed 0 zombies with it. It knows I have done 58777 damage with a tactical shotgun at 18% accuracy. It knows that 19.48% of all kills were achieved with a katana. It ticked off a little counter every single time a bullet was fired so that it can know I fired 25,791 bullets out of my pixel AK-47.

And you think they are seriously going to have difficulty creating an automated system that logs what your IP is(which they already know) and what accounts belong to you? You don't think the company that knows I have played 97 hours 18 minutes and 51 seconds. seconds. isn't going to track the fact that 15 accounts happen to always be tied together when reporting players? That 14 of those 15 accounts haven't even played a game with the player they are reporting as a griefer/troll/whatever? And that all those accounts are from the same IP? Yeah good luck with that.

 

[Tanakh]

Juggernaut is used REALLY often in pro games. Enigma is basically trash tier now, he's a terrible version of Magnus.

I am not saying you are lying, but numbers tell me you really don't know what you are talking about.

I would suggest you to visit http://www.datdota.com/ , because reality and your perceptions do not match.

The pro games I've watched recently see Juggernaut picked up fairly often, not as a carry, but as an off-laner and a roamer. Don't care about your numbers, I've seen pros pick him with my own
eyes very often.

EDIT: Got the numbers to back it up now. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1G9Yk1S_AR1xBwiKJq46usASxgVBBlCwihjlhATNFCOM/pub Juggernaut picked 132 times in pro games in April, giving him more picks than Storm Spirit, Templar Assassin, Chaos Knight, Jakirio, Tinker and Undying.

That link is more or less the bans/picks from march-apr 2013, however I think you are reading the data wrong because if you see it says "bans/picks", jugg has been banned or picked more or less as often this year.

The data i have says he has been picked 9% almost every month this year, but even your link puts it at around 15% pick. Now we might have a different use of words and that might be the issue, but an event that happens 15% of the time I wouldn't call "very often" but "rare and situational".

In conclusion, from what I know, Jugg is a viable long laner, or even a viable mid if you drafted yourself into that corner, but a team will almost never want that and as such he is rare but usable.

 

[endtherapture]

Juggernaut is used REALLY often in pro games. Enigma is basically trash tier now, he's a terrible version of Magnus.

I am not saying you are lying, but numbers tell me you really don't know what you are talking about.

I would suggest you to visit http://www.datdota.com/ , because reality and your perceptions do not match.

The pro games I've watched recently see Juggernaut picked up fairly often, not as a carry, but as an off-laner and a roamer. Don't care about your numbers, I've seen pros pick him with my own
eyes very often.

EDIT: Got the numbers to back it up now. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1G9Yk1S_AR1xBwiKJq46usASxgVBBlCwihjlhATNFCOM/pub Juggernaut picked 132 times in pro games in April, giving him more picks than Storm Spirit, Templar Assassin, Chaos Knight, Jakirio, Tinker and Undying.

That link is more or less the bans/picks from march-apr 2013, however I think you are reading the data wrong because if you see it says "bans/picks", jugg has been banned or picked more or less as often this year.

The data i have says he has been picked 9% almost every month this year, but even your link puts it at around 15% pick. Now we might have a different use of words and that might be the issue, but an event that happens 15% of the time I wouldn't call "very often" but "rare and situational".

In conclusion, from what I know, Jugg is a viable long laner, or even a viable mid if you drafted yourself into that corner, but a team will almost never want that and as such he is rare but usable.

Well when you think about it, if he's picked 15% of the time, in every 10 games played he will appear roughly twice, statistically. That isn't rare. Rare is something that happens maybe in 1-5% of games.

He's a great pick if you want to dominate your tri-lane, or traditional offlaners such as Dark Seer and Bounty Hunter are unavaliable. More of a mid game orientated hero.

I'd argue a "rare and situational" hero is something like a Broodmother as opposed to Juggernaut who is merely "uncommon".