Dr Who Deep Breath

[xaszatm]

I'm curious about the Robot in Paradise. Was that future Clara? Or was he just tripping?

Whatever it is, I am sure we will find out what it is about 3 seasons down the line .

OT: I kind of liked it, though I still had some problems. Mainly around Peter Capaldi's weird direction at the beginning, though since he has finally conformed to his own doctor, I think that will go away.

 

[spartandude]

Ok, I couldnt get a feel for Capaldi as he spent most of the episode either off camera or doing the whole "who am i?" thing rather than being the Doctor... as for the writing, it was terrible. Seriously can we please just get rid of Moffat? He's the Matt Ward (warhammer 40k) of Doctor Who.

Please not the Russell T Davis/ Moffat debate again. He isn't going anywhere because he gets the viewers and whatever you or I think doesn't matter as long as he gets bums on seats.

I didnt even mention RTD.... and while a may prefer RTD to moffat i just think Moffat is a bit shit and want some one to replace him. His first season was pretty good actually but after that he just fucked up. The only reason i watched was because i thought Matt Smith was brilliant.

And while my opinion may not matter in the grand scheme of things i am still going to express it on this thread because thats what this thread is for.

 

[Baron von Blitztank]

The Positives:
New titles are awesome.
Love the look of the new TARDIS
Drax, hilarious as always.
Loved Capaldi after he got over the whole Post-Regeneration Madness thing. Looking forward to seeing more from him.
Follow up to 'Girl in The Fireplace'? YES!
The bit with the robot in Heaven. Interesting enough to leave me wanting to see more.

Spoiler: An Episode where...

The Doctor killed the villain? YES!
(I know it's vague, not explicitly mentioned that The Doctor killed him and will most likely be the case that the robot jumped out himself, but I like to imagine.)

The Negatives:
That CGI...
Clara was unbelivably irritating throughout.
FPS Clara. What?

Spoiler: The bit at the end with...

Matt Smith. Just, why?

Overall, not bad as far as post-regeneration episodes go and I certainly look forward to seeing more from Capaldi. And Daleks next week? YES!

 

[LaoJim]

As usual Doctor Who was the usual eclectic mix, trying to appeal to hardcore fans, children, the general public all at the same time and ending up with something that is ricochets constantly between being wonderful and awful and occasionally wonderfully awful.

I like Peter Capaldi as an actor and think he could be a good doctor. I'm not sure that having a darker doctor (if indeed this is the way the character goes as everyone seems to be assuming) is going to work if they still keep the same fast paced, gag laden script and the comedy stylings of Strax et al. This is more up to the writing team than Capaldi though.

Please not the Russell T Davis/ Moffat debate again.

I generally prefer Moffat to RTD (but kudos to RTD for getting the show started again). I do feel like it might be time to have a new show-runner; the set up for another Moffat style series arc we had this episode doesn't really excite me. I have the feeling we going to have a villian dies and goes to "Paradise" at the end of every episode?

I'm curious about the Robot in Paradise. Was that future Clara? Or was he just tripping?

Funnily enough I had the same thought, though I'm not sure the theory holds up to much scrutiny (Though with Dr Who's typical plot holes maybe it doesn't need to)

I really like Capaldi as The Doctor but I do have one problem with the episode and that is Clara. I don't know what it is but she bored me to tears in this episode.

Agreed, the whole set up with her being somehow "connected" to the doctor that was the main story arc last series (see point above) has left her as a companion without any kind of real background or character at the moment. Rose, Martha, Amy were all fit the "young female companion" mold, but had at least enough that was unique about them that they weren't completely interchangeable.

The Doctor ... ? YES!
(I know it's vague, not explicitly mentioned that The Doctor ... and will most likely be the case that..., but I like to imagine.)

Spoiler

It could be argued that its not murder to "kill" a robot. By saying that the view was beautiful (and that the robot had absorbed the memory of the people it had used to repair itself, the show seemed to imply that the robot was sentient enough for it to not to be okay for the Doctor to destroy him. (It then went onto another tangent by having the Doctor say that the people down below were never small etc, but that maybe a piece of misdirection in a way). Normally the show is good about explaining these things to younger viewer, unless its going to come back as plot point later. So I suspect that it is more than simply the robot killed itself. (Watching while a sentient being commit suicide also isn't morally okay, Doctor-wise) But I also don't think the Doctor could have killed it. So not sure what the story is here...

 

[Suhi89]

Spoiler: I'm just gonna put everything in here because... well I need to

I guess I'm in the minority, but I thought the episode was a disappointment. It definitely had its moments (pretty much every scene where Strax opened his mouth). It was a pretty smart move to place the first episode with Madame Vastra and company as it provided a way to ease into the new Doctor.

Unfortunately, it didn't work for me. Between the running around figuring out who he is, the scene where he fake-abandons Clara, and the oh-so-important question of whether he threw a cyborg out a balloon, I don't feel like I got to know the character in any depth. I get that that was probably the point - they leave it up in the air whether the Doctor is willing to kill or not for the entire season to a big reveal at the end - but it just felt forced to me.

Even the call back to a great Tennant-era episode just felt like they were hoping to feed the Tennant fans, not anything natural. The same can be said of the Smith fans with the call at the end. Felt like a ploy to just buy the show time to get into something with substance.

Clara and Team: Vestra are all that held the episode together in my opinion because at least Clara's reaction made some sense and Vestra, Jenny, and Strax make everything better.

Personally, I hope all I'm feeling is new-doctor jitters and not a sign of a new normal, but my gut doesn't tell my anything good.

I agree with most of this but I didn't like Clara's reaction. She knows all about the Doctor's previous incarnations and even met them all. I didn't buy her distrust of the new Doctor.

Overall, I thought the episode has its good moments but too much of it was disappointing. I really didn't enjoy the first 20 minutes or so. The dinosaur effects were rubbish and the dinosaur pointless in the plot. I like Vestra and Jenny's relationship but in this episode it's just so in your face. We get it Moffatt, you're ok with gay marriage and people who aren't are bigots. We got it the first 4 times.

I also thought much of the humour fell flat. Strax is hilarious and Capaldi show's signs of having great comic timing quite apart from the Malcolm Tucker and I enjoyed the Scottish jokes. Other than that I just cringed.

Still, the episode showed enough promise that I'll keep watching for the time being. Still not a huge fan of Clara (I miss Amy too Doctor). I'm curious to know who the woman at the end is, was she the one who put the ad in the paper? Does anyone remember Clara's first real episode. Did we ever see the woman who gave Clara the Doctor's number?

 

[Thaluikhain]

Eh. Started off rubbish, but got mostly un-rubbish.

And we end with a generically mysterious woman for the arc story. Goddamnit Moffat. I agree with the Matt Ward comparisons.

 

[Zantos]

Spoiler: I'm just gonna put everything in here because... well I need to

I guess I'm in the minority, but I thought the episode was a disappointment. It definitely had its moments (pretty much every scene where Strax opened his mouth). It was a pretty smart move to place the first episode with Madame Vastra and company as it provided a way to ease into the new Doctor.

Unfortunately, it didn't work for me. Between the running around figuring out who he is, the scene where he fake-abandons Clara, and the oh-so-important question of whether he threw a cyborg out a balloon, I don't feel like I got to know the character in any depth. I get that that was probably the point - they leave it up in the air whether the Doctor is willing to kill or not for the entire season to a big reveal at the end - but it just felt forced to me.

Even the call back to a great Tennant-era episode just felt like they were hoping to feed the Tennant fans, not anything natural. The same can be said of the Smith fans with the call at the end. Felt like a ploy to just buy the show time to get into something with substance.

Clara and Team: Vestra are all that held the episode together in my opinion because at least Clara's reaction made some sense and Vestra, Jenny, and Strax make everything better.

Personally, I hope all I'm feeling is new-doctor jitters and not a sign of a new normal, but my gut doesn't tell my anything good.

Unfortunately I think some of the throwback to Tennant and Smith was based on that a lot of the fans haven't seen any old Dr Who so aren't really accustomed to having an older Doctor. I don't know if it's exactly the right idea to have gone with, but at least they kept it fairly brief. Then again I am just wildly speculating.

There were the jitters that came with any new Doctor, but I certainly thought it was interesting enough to keep watching and see how it goes. Once Capaldi found his feet there was definitely something about him that I'd like to see evolve through the further episodes. Maybe we'll get another McCoy-esque "Screw this I'm going to C4 that Dalek's face in the face." I'd be up for that, I always liked McCoy.

 

[Albino Boo]

I agree with most of this but I didn't like Clara's reaction. She knows all about the Doctor's previous incarnations and even met them all. I didn't buy her distrust of the new Doctor.

Overall, I thought the episode has its good moments but too much of it was disappointing. I really didn't enjoy the first 20 minutes or so. The dinosaur effects were rubbish and the dinosaur pointless in the plot. I like Vestra and Jenny's relationship but in this episode it's just so in your face. We get it Moffatt, you're ok with gay marriage and people who aren't are bigots. We got it the first 4 times.

Clara has not met every incarnation of the doctor. An incarnation of Clara has met them all but they are not the same person. Oswin Oswald is not Clara Oswald yet they have both met the same regeneration of the Dr.

 

[chocolate pickles]

Honestly?

I haven't seen an episode of doctor who written this bad since the Christmas special where it turned out the tree's were the enemy or something. I'm not really sure about this doctor - didn't get to see enough of him to make a real judgement, but from what i saw, wasn't really impressed overall. Still, it was nice to see Vastra, Jenny and Strax again.

 

[Darth Marsden]

Wasn't a fan.

There was a semblance of a good story there, but unfortunately it failed to form into a cohesive whole because Mr Moffat is utterly incapable of just writing a story. Instead he has half a dozen ideas, and then writes something to connect all of those ideas together instead of actually sitting down and writing a proper story that properly contains those ideas.

Spoiler: Shh... Spoilers

So we get a T-Rex that is written out of the story within minutes, a Pasternoster gang who do nothing, some police who are dropped for no reason, a robot story that is mostly pointless, a link to The Girl in the Fireplace that didn?t need to be there, a villain who?s motivations barely even get explained, a new Doctor who only really gets one scene to establish his regenerative woes and a script that jumps all over the place.

I get that with a new Doctor comes a new way of doing things, but it?d be so much better if they didn?t whiz through everything at such a breakneck speed. I think the show?s afraid of slowing down and actually taking the time to focus on stuff because HEY NO TIME GOTTA GET TO THE NEXT IDEA MOFFAT THREW IN BECAUSE NO-ONE SAYS NO TO HIM.

It?s not as if I don?t WANT to like the show - I really do want to! - but when you throw so much at us and then just explain it all in a bunch of throwaway lines because we can't stop for even a second to properly explain anything... well, how am I supposed to care about anything?

I have absolutely no hope for the Dalek episode, which is basically ?The Fantastic Voyage? with Daleks!? - not that you'd pick that up from the 'Next Time' bit, but yeah, they're shrinking themselves and going inside a Dalek, that's not gonna be silly at all - but I REALLY don?t want them to screw up the Robin Hood one.

 

[Gabanuka]

Snip

Snip

Snip

Snip

Missy
Mistress
Master

The garden might be her TARDIS but last I checked The Master's hasn't reapeared in New Who

 

[laggyteabag]

The first half of the episode was just insufferable and boring. I was excited for the new episode, but during the first half of the episode, I spent most of my time looking at my phone and scrolling through Twitter as opposed to actually watching the thing. The jokes weren't funny, Peter Capaldi's Doctor was looking to be more of an older looking Matt Smith than the darker Doctor that we were originally promised. The only character that I was actually enjoying so far was Clara, and that was because the dialogue between everybody else was just dreadful, so much so that it sounded more like it was written by Homer Simpson than a critically acclaimed writer. HAHAHAHA HE THREW A NEWSPAPER AT HER HEAD! SHE FELL OVER! HAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHA

It was only when they first entered the restaurant that things started to pick up, but I still was not overly invested in the story. But the point where the Doctor seemingly abandoned Clara really did catch me off guard, although his inevitable return did not. The first person Clara was... odd and it looked like someone had used MS Paint to show that she was out of breath, but the overall premise was cool, and kinda scary. Another thing that irritated me was the whole Lady Vastra x Jenny thing. WE GET IT. YOU ARE LESBIANS. YOU DON'T NEED TO CONSTANTLY REMIND US THAT YOU ARE TOGETHER IN EVERY GODDAMN SCENE!

Capaldi's Doctor really did shine when there was the "I am either going to push you, or you are going to jump off. I have a feeling that neither of us want to do what we have to" conundrum, and if there is more of this kind of stuff, then I can really get behind this version of the Doctor.

It was a good episode, with a VERY poor beginning. I am interested to see where Capaldi takes the Doctor, and if Clara has more screen time, because she really did carry the episode during the less... good parts.

 

[Thaluikhain]

I get that with a new Doctor comes a new way of doing things, but it?d be so much better if they didn?t whiz through everything at such a breakneck speed. I think the show?s afraid of slowing down and actually taking the time to focus on stuff because HEY NO TIME GOTTA GET TO THE NEXT IDEA MOFFAT THREW IN BECAUSE NO-ONE SAYS NO TO HIM.

It?s not as if I don?t WANT to like the show - I really do want to! - but when you throw so much at us and then just explain it all in a bunch of throwaway lines because we can't stop for even a second to properly explain anything... well, how am I supposed to care about anything?

To be fair, that was part of NuWho since the beginning, IIRC, can't just blame Moffat for that one.

Might have gotten worse under his watch, though.

 

[Wereduck]

Missy
Mistress
Master

The garden might be her TARDIS but last I checked The Master's hasn't reapeared in New Who

Clever wordplay.
That also sounds extraordinarily cool but for the record The Master has already appeared in New Who.
He conquored the Earth for a year back in Dr. 10's run...and he had robots then too. When he was defeated he claimed that he was refusing to regenerate just to spite 10 but, of course, it's not like The Master would ever lie.

Aside: my 420th post and I made no mention of weed? Screw that:
"cannabis"

 

[Thaluikhain]

Clever wordplay.
That also sounds extraordinarily cool but for the record The Master has already appeared in New Who.
He conquored the Earth for a year back in Dr. 10's run...and he had robots then too. When he was defeated he claimed that he was refusing to regenerate just to spite 10 but, of course, it's not like The Master would ever lie.

He also came back for 10s finale, and disappeared at the end with a lot of other people, including a mysterious woman that was brought in and never explained any further, cause hell with that.

 

[AliasBot]

I'm curious about the Robot in Paradise. Was that future Clara? Or was he just tripping?

Whatever it is, I am sure we will find out what it is about 3 seasons down the line .

The list of the season's episode titles leaked at one point, and the finale had "Heaven" in the name. Odds are at least decent that this arc gets tied up pretty neatly in one season. Or at least, that's the hope.

(Same goes for how Clara got the Doctor's number in the first place, hopefully, since that finally got brought up again after being forgotten entirely for half a season.)

Anyway, I enjoyed the episode. I've never been particularly skeptical of the show, so even despite the sheer amount of time since the Christmas special and a few miscues during the episode itself (Clara being so wary of the new Doctor even though she knows all about regeneration, as well as some pretty blatant green-screening), I'm excited for the next episode (even though it's Daleks). Once the whole "is he still the Doctor" thing finally got settled, I actually enjoyed the Twelve-Clara dynamic, and I'm at least intrigued by the overarching plot for the season so far. Mainly, this is my first full season that I'm starting live, so I'm just glad to not already know what's coming due to getting spoilers from outside sources. Looking forward to the unknown is a good feeling.

 

[MasterOfHisOwnDomain]

I'm curious about the Robot in Paradise. Was that future Clara? Or was he just tripping?

Wasn't that Mother Superiorus without the eye makeup? It would make sense since she's a religious type & also a pseudo-human robot. I also got the distinct impression that she was flirting with 11 which suggests why she might call a man she's never spoken to her boyfriend.

Was it Tasha? I wasn't sure, because I kept noticing little mannerisms that made me think of Clara. Time of the Doctor was on right before this one, too.

Wasn't it The Rani? The whole android stealing people's parts fits in with her ethos and it would make sense that a Time Lord would be provide the 'Paradise' that was hidden away in time.

 

[Darth Marsden]

I get that with a new Doctor comes a new way of doing things, but it?d be so much better if they didn?t whiz through everything at such a breakneck speed. I think the show?s afraid of slowing down and actually taking the time to focus on stuff because HEY NO TIME GOTTA GET TO THE NEXT IDEA MOFFAT THREW IN BECAUSE NO-ONE SAYS NO TO HIM.

It?s not as if I don?t WANT to like the show - I really do want to! - but when you throw so much at us and then just explain it all in a bunch of throwaway lines because we can't stop for even a second to properly explain anything... well, how am I supposed to care about anything?

To be fair, that was part of NuWho since the beginning, IIRC, can't just blame Moffat for that one.

Might have gotten worse under his watch, though.

It's gotten much more noticeable under his watch, if nothing else.

 

[Thaluikhain]

Wasn't it The Rani? The whole android stealing people's parts fits in with her ethos and it would make sense that a Time Lord would be provide the 'Paradise' that was hidden away in time.

I thought the androids were totally unconnected with her, she just popped in at the end to say "arc plot".

Also, not seeing how it fits the Rani, though. I mean, yeah, harvesting humans, sure, but androids harvesting humans for ages for no good reason to no real goal beyond the androids surviving, not really.

It's gotten much more noticeable under his watch, if nothing else.

Now that you mention it, yeah, though not seen RTD's stuff for a bit.