Dragon Age 2 Dialogue - Does it fall flat?

[HonestJoe]

While I was playing the demo for DA2, one of the things I was most interested in was the change in the conversation mechanics compared to Origins. I must say I was slightly disappointed by what little I saw in the demo.

I'm the type of person who goes for the comedic option every time, so each conversation had me going for the smiling mask in the centre of the wheel. I found that all the one-liners spouted by Hawke seemed to fall flat. Compared to Origins, which had a very Joss Whedon like sense of humour; the dialogue in the demo didn't quite measure up.
Also, the short description given with each option rarely resembled what eventually came out of Hawkes mouth.

Now I'll admit that I have always been against the change from text based to fully voiced PC ever since it was announced all those months ago. I have been accused by friends who are proponents of the new system, that I am letting my personal bias against this new mechanic colour my opinion of the demo.

That's why I've posted this topic, so I can get the opinion of a neutral third party. Did anyone else find the new conversation options in the demo as disappointing as I did?

 

[Soviet Heavy]

I was a little disappointed by the Sister's dialogue.
"There's no end to them" She says completely monotone.

Bioware is adopting the Obsidian style "attitude" wheel instead of dialogue. One thing that they really should take from Obsidian is the timer. The main problem when working with the dialogue wheel is that it makes the conversation very stilted if you take too long to respond.

Obsidian countered that perfectly by putting a timer on decision, making conversations flow much more naturally. It also makes the dialogue wheel more of a gameplay mechanic as well. You need to choose what to say, and say it fast. It adds a sense of challenge to your decisions.

 

[theComposer]

The thing I hated the most was that BioWare trapped themselves in the Good, Bad, Neutral conversation options, like in Mass Effect, instead of simply taking the diverse and ambiguous options from Origins and wrapping them in a circle with icons.

I also noticed that there were some wide gaps between the text and the actual spoken dialogue, but that didn't bother me quite as much.

 

[PlasmaFrog]

Terribly disappointed, the demo really didn't grip me at all.

 

[Audemas]

I actually enjoyed the demo a lot enough to make me want to get it. I played the first Dragon Age and I got about half-way through before quitting the game all together. When it comes to the dialog though, I didn't hate it, but the speech choices didn't seem a broad as they did in the first one.

 

[Caiti Voltaire]

You have much less direct control in this way. The game in general feels more like a choose-your-own-adventure book than an actual interactive experience. But given ME2, I more or less saw it coming. It seems like its taking the FF route where each game is becoming close and closer to a movie.

 

[gmaverick019_v1legacy]

eh i still enjoyed it nonetheless, and i'm sure in it's own way DA2 will be pretty good, sadly i think it will be like me2 where it doesn't follow up its predecessor as well as it probably should have.

still, enjoyed that demo alot, and really looking forward to seeing what kind of story and stuff they dish out in the full game.

 

[Fr]anc[is]

That's always been the ME wheels problem, I have absolutely no idea why they can't make the preview text actually match the dialog. But as to the actual impact on the game, its about the same. In origins you can call Alistair an asshole or be nice to him, and it will be exactly the same result 2 lines later anyway. And the big decisions were obvious in ME anyway, and now with the little symbols changing its even more obvious when you're choosing between those 3 choices that don't matter and when it does matter.

 

[Flying Pilgrim]

It is only a demo and with many games they tend to change things (like dialogue and sometimes even voice actors) in the full version; for all we know this demo could've been finished half a year ago.

 

[spartan231490]

While I was playing the demo for DA2, one of the things I was most interested in was the change in the conversation mechanics compared to Origins. I must say I was slightly disappointed by what little I saw in the demo.

I'm the type of person who goes for the comedic option every time, so each conversation had me going for the smiling mask in the centre of the wheel. I found that all the one-liners spouted by Hawke seemed to fall flat. Compared to Origins, which had a very Joss Whedon like sense of humour; the dialogue in the demo didn't quite measure up.
Also, the short description given with each option rarely resembled what eventually came out of Hawkes mouth.

Now I'll admit that I have always been against the change from text based to fully voiced PC ever since it was announced all those months ago. I have been accused by friends who are proponents of the new system, that I am letting my personal bias against this new mechanic colour my opinion of the demo.

That's why I've posted this topic, so I can get the opinion of a neutral third party. Did anyone else find the new conversation options in the demo as disappointing as I did?

I think the game isn't out yet, and the demo had approximately 1/1000 of a percent of the dialogue that will be in the game. You are counting your chickens in my opinion. That said, i hate the dialogue wheel. I am perfectly capable of deciding which comments are good, evil, and funny, labeling them is insulting. Also, origins usually had more options because they were just putting up possible answers, not filling their three predetermined dialogue options.

 

[Flying Pilgrim]

Is it just me or is Hawke kinda like Shepard from the first Mass Effect game? With his whole blank slate, and undeveloped personality.

 

[ace_of_something]

Did anyone else notice that in the Demo in areas where there was an echo in the dialog (like the interrogated dwarf and orlesian templar.) That the echo would cut off suddenly after their line. It was really weird and kept pulling me out.

I like the dialogue wheel, it's not saying exactly what you say, just the gist of it. Makes what they say have at least a little surprise before they say it. Rather than "I read it, now you repeat it" I remember back in adventure game days many would play dialog like that and sometimes it'd make you skip the characters delivery (especially if you'd been thru the game once before)
Though I hope that there's not always exactly 3 options. That'd be kind of odd.

 

[HonestJoe]

While I was playing the demo for DA2, one of the things I was most interested in was the change in the conversation mechanics compared to Origins. I must say I was slightly disappointed by what little I saw in the demo.

I'm the type of person who goes for the comedic option every time, so each conversation had me going for the smiling mask in the centre of the wheel. I found that all the one-liners spouted by Hawke seemed to fall flat. Compared to Origins, which had a very Joss Whedon like sense of humour; the dialogue in the demo didn't quite measure up.
Also, the short description given with each option rarely resembled what eventually came out of Hawkes mouth.

Now I'll admit that I have always been against the change from text based to fully voiced PC ever since it was announced all those months ago. I have been accused by friends who are proponents of the new system, that I am letting my personal bias against this new mechanic colour my opinion of the demo.

That's why I've posted this topic, so I can get the opinion of a neutral third party. Did anyone else find the new conversation options in the demo as disappointing as I did?

I think the game isn't out yet, and the demo had approximately 1/1000 of a percent of the dialogue that will be in the game. You are counting your chickens in my opinion. That said, i hate the dialogue wheel. I am perfectly capable of deciding which comments are good, evil, and funny, labeling them is insulting. Also, origins usually had more options because they were just putting up possible answers, not filling their three predetermined dialogue options.

While it is possible that I'm being premature in my judgement, it seems unlikely to me that Bioware would hand pick these conversations to showcase in their demo if they had so many better ones just lying around; from a marketing standpoint it doesn't make much sense. While there may be better dialogue in the completed game, I think it is safe to say that what you see in the demo is indicative of what you'll see in the full version.

Also, I don't think the labelling of the dialogue is meant to be insulting. Most of the descriptions that accompany each dialogue choice are ridiculously short and nondescript; and in no way represent what Hawke will actually end up saying. Without that little comedy mask I would have had no idea the comment was supposed to be funny.

That being said, I agree the conversation wheel majorly sucks.

 

[MisterShine]

I liked the dialog wheel change myself. I suffered terribly from the Origins plague of having characters wildly misinterpret my tone and intent for some of my snarky remarks.

That's why I've posted this topic, so I can get the opinion of a neutral third party. Did anyone else find the new conversation options in the demo as disappointing as I did?

The dialog during the opening sequence with Varric telling the legend was overdone, but judging by how the conversations during the "true" portions sounded, I'm guessing that is intentional in order to emphasize that Varric is talking bullshit. Also like how Hawke's sister gains a cup size or two when he's telling the story

The thing I hated the most was that BioWare trapped themselves in the Good, Bad, Neutral conversation options, like in Mass Effect, instead of simply taking the diverse and ambiguous options from Origins and wrapping them in a circle with icons.

This always irks me. Sorry to single you out on this issue, but dammit you posted it first.

At no point does Mass Effect break down into Good v. Bad. Paragon is not good, Renegade is not evil. Only at a small small handful of events does Paragon do something that is solid good without some ulterior motive or diplomatic intention, and as equally rare will Renegade be a jackass or spiteful simply because its amusing. There is always a purpose, even if you don't necessarily agree with it, and this widespread misrepresentation of how the game works annoys the crap out of me.

Also if you (general you) go back and play Origins, you'll notice that 90% of all issues are solved with 1 diplomatic choice, 1 aggressive/objectivist choice, and 1 neutral/snarky/middle of the road choice. Also Bioware has stated that many decisions in the game will not be labeled as Aggressive/Diplo/whatever, but will be blank on the wheel.

Phew. Good to get that out. Sorry again to make it look like I'm singling you out on this theComposer, its just a common attitude I see and I'd like to address it and your post fit the bill.

edit:

While it is possible that I'm being premature in my judgement, it seems unlikely to me that Bioware would hand pick these conversations to showcase in their demo if they had so many better ones just lying around; from a marketing standpoint it doesn't make much sense. ..

I disagree. I think the demo was mainly to address the complaints/concerns about the new combat system, and teasing the beginning portion of the game. Though I think they should've put in the other difficulty settings so all the people talking about how the new combat isn't tactical could play on nightmare and say that with a straight face.

 

[StrykeFyre]

yea that was extremely disappointing. mass effect fantasy edition. at least it's not a third person shooter and is therefore several million times better than ME2 right off the bat. still a huge letdown for me :/

 

[HonestJoe]

At no point does Mass Effect break down into Good v. Bad. Paragon is not good, Renegade is not evil. Only at a small small handful of events does Paragon do something that is solid good without some ulterior motive or diplomatic intention, and as equally rare will Renegade be a jackass or spiteful simply because its amusing. There is always a purpose, even if you don't necessarily agree with it, and this widespread misrepresentation of how the game works annoys the crap out of me.

Maybe not good or evil exactly; perhaps more like liberal or conservative, idealist or pragmatist, nice guy or jackass. Regardless of what you call it, you're pigeon holed into one of two possible choices with no real wiggle room between the two. Granted this is not unique to Mass Effect, most games that offer choice seem to limit it between two options; but at least in origins there was some small effort made to make some choices morally ambiguous. The conversation wheel removes some of that ambiguity.

While it is possible that I'm being premature in my judgement, it seems unlikely to me that Bioware would hand pick these conversations to showcase in their demo if they had so many better ones just lying around; from a marketing standpoint it doesn't make much sense. ..

I disagree. I think the demo was mainly to address the complaints/concerns about the new combat system, and teasing the beginning portion of the game. Though I think they should've put in the other difficulty settings so all the people talking about how the new combat isn't tactical could play on nightmare and say that with a straight face.

I must confess that I'm not sure what the developers initial intention was when developing the demo. However the changes in the dialogue mechanics was also a topic of great concern to many people. And even if it wasn't I would think they would want every aspect of the demo to show off the best parts of the game. If they had better dialogue they probably would have shown some of it.

 

[MisterShine]

Maybe not good or evil exactly; perhaps more like liberal or conservative, idealist or pragmatist, nice guy or jackass. Regardless of what you call it, you're pigeon holed into one of two possible choices with no real wiggle room between the two. Granted this is not unique to Mass Effect, most games that offer choice seem to limit it between two options; but at least in origins there was some small effort made to make some choices morally ambiguous. The conversation wheel removes some of that ambiguity.

I understand where you're coming from, I just feel referring to it as a moral choice or good.v.bad or what have you is just inaccurate, and misleading about the nature of the game. I agree with the post in terms of "pigeon-holing" up to the bolded part. While Mass Effect is almost always drawn to either a Paragon or Renegade decision (though you can play as a mixture of the two, and there are some "3rd options", but generally your statement holds true), we have no evidence that this will be the case for DA2. The dialog wheel can hold 5 solutions, and while there are 3 dominant tones Hawke can take, his options in dealing with these things is not necessarily limited to those. And as I said above, I'd remind you that in Origins there were usually only 3 real responses to each issue, aggressive/diplomatic or jackass

And even if it wasn't I would think they would want every aspect of the demo to show off the best parts of the game... If they had better dialogue they probably would have shown some of it.

I'd say most people would agree that the best parts of Bioware games tend to be the big choices dotted throughout the game that have large impacts on the in-game universe, even if we don't necessarily see the outcomes first hand or right away. And the romantic scenes. And the endings. Huge spoiler scenes, is what I'm trying to say here I don't think Bioware would be too keen on showing those things off in a demo.

After these past few posts (and my posts on this issue in the past) it may sound like I think Bioware and this demo could do no wrong, but I don't, I'm just responding with my opinions on these specific issues.

 

[realslimshadowen]

I would say that some of it does and some of it doesn't. This isn't any different from the original.

I'm really impressed by that Seeker, Cassandra, for example (who quite aside from everything else that's attractive with her has an intensity in both body language, appearance, tone, and dialogue that is very consistent), while one's siblings are...meh.

 

[adrian_exec]

The thing I hated the most was that BioWare trapped themselves in the Good, Bad, Neutral conversation options, like in Mass Effect, instead of simply taking the diverse and ambiguous options from Origins and wrapping them in a circle with icons.

So very true. I prefer the traditional conversation system for this exact reason.

For an example in Dragon Age: Origins you could have multiple "good" answers or "bad" ones, but with the wheel it's pretty much clear: one good answer, one neutral and one bad .. making the dialogue much less diverse.