Dragon Age 2: not crap (spoilers aplenty)

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mrbonzai211

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****THIS WHOLE THING CONTAINS SPOILERS, RUN NOW IF YOU CAN****

I literally just finished dragon age 2... I loved it. I've been playing for 3 days straight and just finished it and every single side quest available. At times, I actually kind of hated it. The story didn't make sense, and I felt like an errand boy retracing the same maps over and over and over and over again. I couldn't really see how everything fit. It just felt like a bunch of smaller games and stories all shoved into one game... that is, until the end. All of the sudden everything made sense; all of the pieces fit. I will admit, the gameplay isn't the greatest, but I don't play games like this for the mechanics, I'm a story whore. This was, in fact, a great story.... so long as you played it out to the end.

What really made me love this game, aside from the good story, was the fact that I actually became emotionally invested in the characters. I believed in Andris and it literally hurt when he betrayed me. Hawks family felt like I, as the player, was part of it. My choices caused Hawk's sister to die, and the guilt from that dictated the decisions I made for the rest of the game. I genuinely felt guilty I took her with me to the deep roads. I usually hate romances in games, but I went out of my way to get Merril to fall in love with Hawk because.... it just seemed right for some reason. I believed in the cause of the mages and freedom, I wanted to start a rebellion. Even though Mass Effect and other games rely more heavily on interpersonal relationships in games, I never actually bought into any of it until I played this one.

If I could tell you just one reason to play this game, it's that YOU FEEL THE CONSEQUENCE OF THE DECISIONS YOU MAKE IN THIS GAME. Everything you do carries weight and effects the world. One selfish choice can cause your family to dissolve, or people to get murdered. Very few games make you feel so responsible. So many times I thought I was doing the right thing, or supporting a friend, only to find out my good intentions caused mass death or suffering. This element of responsibility immersed me in the game like I have never been before.... I hate that it's over right now.

Preface: I am severely drunk off of an IPA beer with 9% alcohol by volume, but at least half of this game I played sober. Never-the-less, this was a much better game than I expected due to all the hate on this forum. I'm actually mad that everyones negative opinion made me wait so long to get it.

I apologize for my intoxicity... just wanted to express my love for this game, both sober and drunk... please play it. You probably wont like it until you reach the end (like so many movies ive seen), but it's worth giving time to. Don't believe the elitist hype, this was a good game. I myself was the biggest hater of all until I actually played it TO THE END.
 

Sniper Team 4

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See, some things you can control the outcome in that game (brother/sister's fate in the Deep Roads) and other things are ultimately decided for you (You mother dies, you kill both Knight Commander and First Enchanter). Some consequences have no weight because of the fact that they will happen regardless. Still, the ones you do have a choice in can hit pretty hard. Merrill's final quest comes to mind for me.
I too greatly enjoyed Dragon Age 2, but it has one serious flaw. Areas are recycled over and over. It's the same cave, same dungeon, same house. This screwed me up the first time I played because I was constantly going, "It's on the map, why can't I get to it?" All the other 'flaws' are matters of opinion and different tastes--and by that I mean I don't consider them flaws (I say this because I am well aware of the fact that my one flaw is exactly what I just said above).
 

Shio

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That's not a recommendation you want to make; "It's terrible until the end... But boy, what a great ending!"
 

Mr. Omega

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Jul 1, 2010
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And the Witcher 2 fanboys will come in going "YOU'RE OPINION IS WRONG THIS GAME SUCKS AND WITCHER 2 IS BETTER!" in 3...2...1...

Serious: As I said before, I didn't play Origins, but whatever expectations it made, they must have been fucking monumental for the Escapist to have such pure seething hatred for a game that, while very flawed, is not that bad. It's not earth-shattering or revolutionary, but it was an ok game.
 

ultrachicken

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My enjoyment of DA2 would have been quadrupled if they had introduced a decent variety of maps. You visit the same city, the same three or four dungeons, and the same few outskirt areas repeatedly for the entire game. That is it. The trees looked awful, the Dalish camp should have looked more like a forest, and while Kirkwall's quirky architecture was interesting to look at, the sea of brown crippled the geometric beauty of the city.

As for the story, they needed to make MORE decisions carry weight. If there had been a way to save your mother, or the First Enchanter, or Meridith, or convince the Qunari to leave peacefully, then I would buy into the "your decisions matter" sales pitch. However, they didn't, at least not often. Alpha protocol is the only game I've played that actually got this right.

I did enjoy Dragon Age 2, quite a bit actually, but I'm not blind to its flaws.
 

NightlyNews

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Mr. Omega said:
And the Witcher 2 fanboys will come in going "YOU'RE OPINION IS WRONG THIS GAME SUCKS AND WITCHER 2 IS BETTER!" in 3...2...1...

Serious: As I said before, I didn't play Origins, but whatever expectations it made, they must have been fucking monumental for the Escapist to have such pure seething hatred for a game that, while very flawed, is not that bad. It's not earth-shattering or revolutionary, but it was an ok game.
I think I'm a fairly objective source and I can say witcher 2 on the easiest setting is more fun and better story driven than da 2.

Source:
I was a huge fan of da: origins. I personally thought it was better than the mass effect games, but I'm pretty lonely in that belief.

Then they made the second one. The story in my opinion was much worse. I didn't feel like I was moving up or actually accomplishing anything. The classes seemed to be even more unbalanced than in the first (2 rouges, 2 mages never change party autowin game). The mage vs Templar hadn't changed and now just seemed played out and the romance options felt weird.

I was fine with zerzevan hitting on me btw because it felt right with the character. When Anders hit on my I felt uncomfortable because it just seemed out of place and forced. I mean was Justice hitting on me or some random grey warden. Either way didn't seem very normal. Didn't they say in the first game somewhere that grey wardens couldn't mate with non wardens because of the taint or some shit?
 

ryushi612

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Jul 27, 2010
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I can't help but dissagree a bit. Dont get me wrong the "game" is great, the mechanics are a polished upgrade to the Dragon age origins system (hell combat was fun which is a step up from the almost tedious if not epic combat in Origins) And the graphical update and style were beautiful but there are a few issues that I can't reconcile.

First of all, no matter how great a game DA2 was, we were not playing it for the gameplay, I can assure you that everyone on this board played it for the story, to see where the world without the blight would go. It was a big chance for new directions and I really think they phoned it in.

Confining the player to one city made the game feel small. No matter how much time passed it was still a small area that was difficult to break away from.

Other than that, they spent such a large time building the story of the blight and yet dragon age 2 is barely touched by it, it seems like something that large deserves something more than a prologue and a cameo by the King (or queen)

And my biggest issue of the actual in game feel was the lack of conversational options with your party, it made me feel really detached from the people in my group. With the exeption of issabella and anders most of the characters just felt two dimensional, and ander's third dimension only comes from his role in Awakening.

But my biggest problem, the only one I can't over look was the fact that the game just felt like a prologue. It just felt too shot, as if the entire game was just a set up for some grand third installment. I think it was a cheap move, Dragon age: Origins could stand alone, after that game you felt like you accomplished something, like you had done a great quest. After DA:2 I couldnt help but feel that I hadn't accomplished anything because the story was already building up to something even more incredible that would happen in the near future.
 

kayisking

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mrbonzai211 said:
****THIS WHOLE THING CONTAINS SPOILERS, RUN NOW IF YOU CAN****

I literally just finished dragon age 2... I loved it. I've been playing for 3 days straight and just finished it and every single side quest available. At times, I actually kind of hated it. The story didn't make sense, and I felt like an errand boy retracing the same maps over and over and over and over again. I couldn't really see how everything fit. It just felt like a bunch of smaller games and stories all shoved into one game... that is, until the end. All of the sudden everything made sense; all of the pieces fit. I will admit, the gameplay isn't the greatest, but I don't play games like this for the mechanics, I'm a story whore. This was, in fact, a great story.... so long as you played it out to the end.

What really made me love this game, aside from the good story, was the fact that I actually became emotionally invested in the characters. I believed in Andris and it literally hurt when he betrayed me. Hawks family felt like I, as the player, was part of it. My choices caused Hawk's sister to die, and the guilt from that dictated the decisions I made for the rest of the game. I genuinely felt guilty I took her with me to the deep roads. I usually hate romances in games, but I went out of my way to get Merril to fall in love with Hawk because.... it just seemed right for some reason. I believed in the cause of the mages and freedom, I wanted to start a rebellion. Even though Mass Effect and other games rely more heavily on interpersonal relationships in games, I never actually bought into any of it until I played this one.

If I could tell you just one reason to play this game, it's that YOU FEEL THE CONSEQUENCE OF THE DECISIONS YOU MAKE IN THIS GAME. Everything you do carries weight and effects the world. One selfish choice can cause your family to dissolve, or people to get murdered. Very few games make you feel so responsible. So many times I thought I was doing the right thing, or supporting a friend, only to find out my good intentions caused mass death or suffering. This element of responsibility immersed me in the game like I have never been before.... I hate that it's over right now.

Preface: I am severely drunk off of an IPA beer with 9% alcohol by volume, but at least half of this game I played sober. Never-the-less, this was a much better game than I expected due to all the hate on this forum. I'm actually mad that everyones negative opinion made me wait so long to get it.

I apologize for my intoxicity... just wanted to express my love for this game, both sober and drunk... please play it. You probably wont like it until you reach the end (like so many movies ive seen), but it's worth giving time to. Don't believe the elitist hype, this was a good game. I myself was the biggest hater of all until I actually played it TO THE END.
It's a great game, it's just not as good as it's predecessor. That's why it's hated so much.
 

Sjakie

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NightlyNews said:
Mr. Omega said:
And the Witcher 2 fanboys will come in going "YOU'RE OPINION IS WRONG THIS GAME SUCKS AND WITCHER 2 IS BETTER!" in 3...2...1...

Serious: As I said before, I didn't play Origins, but whatever expectations it made, they must have been fucking monumental for the Escapist to have such pure seething hatred for a game that, while very flawed, is not that bad. It's not earth-shattering or revolutionary, but it was an ok game.
I think I'm a fairly objective source and I can say witcher 2 on the easiest setting is more fun and better story driven than da 2.

Source:
I was a huge fan of da: origins. I personally thought it was better than the mass effect games, but I'm pretty lonely in that belief.

Then they made the second one. The story in my opinion was much worse. I didn't feel like I was moving up or actually accomplishing anything. The classes seemed to be even more unbalanced than in the first (2 rouges, 2 mages never change party autowin game). The mage vs Templar hadn't changed and now just seemed played out and the romance options felt weird.

I was fine with zerzevan hitting on me btw because it felt right with the character. When Anders hit on my I felt uncomfortable because it just seemed out of place and forced. I mean was Justice hitting on me or some random grey warden. Either way didn't seem very normal. Didn't they say in the first game somewhere that grey wardens couldn't mate with non wardens because of the taint or some shit?
seconded.
Witcher 2 has better story/gfx/gameplay, but worse dialog/tutorial.
And if the OP gets to start a flammable topic about how much he liked DA2, we get to whine about what we like also!
 

Daniel Janhagen

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NightlyNews said:
Didn't they say in the first game somewhere that grey wardens couldn't mate with non wardens because of the taint or some shit?
I think they said that mating at all when you have the taint is risky (I guess they reckon chances are you won't have a healthy baby, or a baby at all), and it's even worse when both (prospective) parents have the taint. Or something like it.
 

MisterShine

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Mar 9, 2010
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NightlyNews said:
Didn't they say in the first game somewhere that grey wardens couldn't mate with non wardens because of the taint or some shit?
They just can't have kids. Or rather, a warden pairing up with a normal person means the odds are very low to conceive a child, if it's two wardens together it is nearly impossible. This is brought up with Alistair

If you romance Alistair, he will dump you if he is made the king because it is his duty to have an heir to the throne, and he knows if he tries to have one with you, it will be far more difficult. If you're human you can talk him into giving it a shot, if you're not human... you're screwed :( and not in a good way
 

Smooth Operator

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Mr. Omega said:
And the Witcher 2 fanboys will come in going "YOU'RE OPINION IS WRONG THIS GAME SUCKS AND WITCHER 2 IS BETTER!" in 3...2...1...

Serious: As I said before, I didn't play Origins, but whatever expectations it made, they must have been fucking monumental for the Escapist to have such pure seething hatred for a game that, while very flawed, is not that bad. It's not earth-shattering or revolutionary, but it was an ok game.
Well imagine it like this, you go to a restaurant where they serve one huge delicious steak dinner, and you say this is awesome I will come here every time, but the next time they serve you only 1/4 of what you got before, yet charge you the same price.
How do you react to that?
 

LittleBlondeGoth

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Daniel Janhagen said:
I think they said that mating at all when you have the taint is risky (I guess they reckon chances are you won't have a healthy baby, or a baby at all), and it's even worse when both (prospective) parents have the taint. Or something like it.
From what I read, there's just little chance of conceiving if you carry the taint. The sex isn't a problem, which is lucky since my Warden spent the majority of the game boinking Alistair every chance she got...

But in all seriousness, DA2 is a good game, I enjoy playing it. It's not a clone of Origins, so everyone who was expecting the same game again just new story would have been disappointed. There were things in it I think were an improvement, and things I didn't like so much (reused environments, no autoattack), but overall it wasn't a bad game. Certainly it's good enough to have me doing a couple of playthroughs as different Hawkes.
 

NightlyNews

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MisterShine said:
NightlyNews said:
Didn't they say in the first game somewhere that grey wardens couldn't mate with non wardens because of the taint or some shit?
They just can't have kids. Or rather, a warden pairing up with a normal person means the odds are very low to conceive a child, if it's two wardens together it is nearly impossible. This is brought up with Alistair

If you romance Alistair, he will dump you if he is made the king because it is his duty to have an heir to the throne, and he knows if he tries to have one with you, it will be far more difficult. If you're human you can talk him into giving it a shot, if you're not human... you're screwed :( and not in a good way
Even if they do conceive a child it is automatically a grey warden so can't live past 30 anyway.

At the ending of origins morrigans' fetus thing can absorb the archdemon, so apparently all babies are born with the taint if they are conceived. You could say since they didn't go through the joining they wouldn't make it past 5 though 0.o
 

DustyDrB

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Jan 19, 2010
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Shio said:
That's not a recommendation you want to make; "It's terrible until the end... But boy, what a great ending!"
I'd it's backwards. I think it's great until the ending, but what a shitty ending.
 

Wilcroft

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I'll agree that DA2 was a good game, but it was by no means amazing, without even comparing it to it's predecessor.

For a relative comparison, I've put at least 250 hours into DA1, with several characters, the DLCs and whatnot. If the computer I was using wasn't dead right now, there's a chance I'd play some more.

With DA2, I beat it once, doing every quest, and it took me a bit under 40 hours. At this point, I'm not really interested in replaying the game. Part of it was the recycled terrains, but the world also got to me. DA1 had a 5 cities, each with many sub-levels and quests. DA2 had 14 or so areas, plus any small, temporary ones. Everything in DA2 just felt smaller.
 

RedEyesBlackGamer

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Mr. Omega said:
it was an ok game.
That IS my problem. It was average, mediocre. Compared to Origins, a game I really liked and beat several times, it really shows. The lack of polish (wave spawning, reused areas), lack of choices, and the overall game was just disappointing after the first game.
 

Frotality

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so you hated it while drunk but loved the sober ending? perhaps nothing made sense because you were drunk...

i actually enjoyed the 1st act, but it fell apart after that. the ending to me, was actually complete bollocks. i lost what little interest i had in the so-called characters, the story was disjointed and poorly presented, and the final boss was so hilariously over-the-top that it finally shattered my suspension of disbelief.

the combat was repetitive, the plot non-existent, the characters unlikeable, the player was a non-entity and hawke didnt do anything productive for anyone. i cant fathom how you felt responsible for your choices, because i felt like nothing i did mattered at all; not just the common complaints of choices having no impact, but when choices DO have consequences the game pulls a shroedinger's failure and makes your decision seem wrong no matter what you choose; hawke is an incompetent mass of misfortune and failure no matter how you play him/her. the whole story reeks of "why do i bother doing anything" and from what developers have said since, was basically a bad excuse to get mages and templar fighting. merrill is an idiot who deserves whatever she gets, anders is a one-trick pony and i was devastated when he turned out to have plot importance of any sort, isabela stole my book, and fenris is an anime character.

so apart from the first act where you at least had a damn goal and reason to do stuff, i did not enjoy this game, and it is not good by any reasonable standard; it is mediocre at best. i thought origins was good; not great, not bad, just good; but whatever expectations it might have set, not living up to the original is a poor excuse for a shoddy and mediocre game.

i find it very odd how some defenders of DA2 try to claim those who didnt like it never played it all the way through; i beat the whole game; every sidequest; beat the main game 3 times. i still think it sucks. if you like the game, fine, but dont make shit up about the opposing opinion.