Dragon Age 2... WTF???

[MetallicaRulez0]

Having multiple races for the main character guarantees that BioWare can't do full voice acting for the player character. That takes away from immersion, and honestly Dragon Age felt bland and lifeless compared to Mass Effect for this sole reason. As long as they keep the semi-interesting combat and great story from the first game, and add voice acting for the main character, DA2 will be a great game. Hopefully they don't dumb it down quite as much as they did between ME1 and ME2.

I feel the opposite. I can't get very immersed if my character has a voice, because then there is a very clear and very visible delineation between me and the character. Without a voiced protagonist, that line between me and the character is blurrier and I'm better able to take on the role of a Grey Warden and otherwise get into the game.

Perhaps that's true for those of you who really enjoy the role-playing portion of RPGs. For the vast majority of gamers who play RPGs though, we're just looking for a great story with great characters and deep customization features. I do understand what you're saying though, I just don't really agree with it (or any deep role-playing for that matter).

 

[Da_Schwartz]

yea.... not for nothing but it's probably a good idea to wait till the actual game coems out..and you play it.. and you have ALL the facts before blabbing your mouth. Or are you sir are just as guilty as the ppl u point fingers at that hate games just because they are popular.

 

[StarCecil]

Having multiple races for the main character guarantees that BioWare can't do full voice acting for the player character. That takes away from immersion, and honestly Dragon Age felt bland and lifeless compared to Mass Effect for this sole reason. As long as they keep the semi-interesting combat and great story from the first game, and add voice acting for the main character, DA2 will be a great game. Hopefully they don't dumb it down quite as much as they did between ME1 and ME2.

I feel the opposite. I can't get very immersed if my character has a voice, because then there is a very clear and very visible delineation between me and the character. Without a voiced protagonist, that line between me and the character is blurrier and I'm better able to take on the role of a Grey Warden and otherwise get into the game.

Perhaps that's true for those of you who really enjoy the role-playing portion of RPGs. For the vast majority of gamers who play RPGs though, we're just looking for a great story with great characters and deep customization features. I do understand what you're saying though, I just don't really agree with it (or any deep role-playing for that matter).

But the deep customization features are being lost with this next installment.

 

[darth gditch]

Well, it was Dragon Age: Origins. Emphasis on the Origins. I was under that impression that was a one time deal. The origins story would only be part of that game.

 

[MetallicaRulez0]

But the deep customization features are being lost with this next installment.

I don't mean customization of the appearance of your character (although that's nice and all), I mean stats, talent specializations, armor and weapons, that sort of thing. All of those are much much more important to me than whether I play as an Elf or a Human. The first Dragon Age was SORELY lacking in gear customization especially. I found a dagger for my rogue at level 5 or so that was literally the best in the game. That's very sad.

 

[StarCecil]

Well, it was Dragon Age: Origins. Emphasis on the Origins. I was under that impression that was a one time deal. The origins story would only be part of that game.

Yet the game leads into Awakening, which ends on a cliffhanger no matter what. In fact, doubly so if you do the Dark Ritual.

EDIT: Sorry, that was kind of vague. What I mean to say is why would the Origins be a one time thing when A) They were much beloved and seen as the single best feature of the game, and B) every ending, no matter what, ends in a cliffhanger. The fact the nature of the cliffhanger lends itself well to different "Origin" type starter-stories would easily lead one to believe that there was more to the story of the Warden and plenty of room for more origin tales.

 

[StarCecil]

It was the origin stories that started Dragon Age on the right track.

I liked both Mass Effect games and I disliked Dragon Age: Origins because it had a weird learning curve which reminded me of a cliff face then a brick wall.
I did like the origins stories but notice that's what it was called: Origins.
They've done that bit, so they can do other things now.
So that's probably why they're taking a new direction with Dragon Age 2

Yet as I said above the Origins were not only the single most unique thing about the game but were also seen by fans and critics to be one of the best things about it, and DA:O ends on such a cliffhanger-y note it makes no sense to suddenly introduce a new character with a separate plot.

 

[brodie21]

Yeah, considering the original allowed for a lot more customization and creativity in that regard. It's a huge step backwards for BioWare to literally be reducing the amount of things you can do in a sequel, especially considering that the DAO fanbase has a lot of people for who that feature was a huge plus.

how is it reducing the amount of things you can do? did you not read my reply? they could make all the story as varied as the origin stories, not have 6 different starting sequences followed by a fairly linear plot, in which the only choices you have are which order to do them in and whether to be good or bad. (whoops! almost forgot that you could choose which character to bone)

for me the downfall of the game was that aside from the beginning there was not really much difference whether you played a human or a dwarf except for height.

 

[StarCecil]

Well, the three races, the six origins all added to the depth of the game. By decided both those for you, it does limit the level of customization. Even within the game you were allowed a lot of leeway in how you established a sort of personality for your character. And the origins did have an impact on later interactions.

Just (a few) from my Human Noble game:

Ser Perth at Redcliffe asks how to address you and I told him that I was a Teyrn's son, and to call me "my Lord".

Arl Howe having almost completely different dialogue with me.

Banns Alfstanna and Sighard, and Arl Wulff all recognizing me as a Cousland and having different dialogues.

King Cailan promising to turn the army on Howe after Ostagar.

Telling Alistair that my home was taken from me by Howe.

Telling Alistair that my entire family was murdered just recently.

The ability to marry Anora.

 

[Nimzabaat]

What I was actually referring to, was how allot of people were complaining about aspects of the game before the game came out. However, once the game was finally released the amount of complaints about the game dropped drastically once everyone was able to see that ME2 was a very well made game.

I don't remember many people commenting before it's release (on the mechanics that is) but I do remember aot of people complaining at the simplification of ME2. Look at this thread for example. I know people who were die-hard Bioware fanboys who found ME2 so a bad they didn't want to buy any more games from them ever again if they continued in that direction.

I am starting to become one of those people. ME2 was good, just a big drop in quality and quantity from ME (I found more glitches in ME2 than Alpha Protocol). I don't recall the number of complaints dropping about ME2 at any point and it's in the bargain bin now. I didn't lose faith in Bioware because there was still Dragon Age: Origins which was awesome. It is starting to look like they have something against sequels though. I do know that I learned my lesson (I pre-ordered ME2) and I won't be pre-ordering anything Bioware does again.

And... after the first few screenshots (I know very preliminary!) I'd have to say that Bioware just remade Elder Scrolls: Redguard. Once again, I really, really, really want to be proven wrong (not just shouted down as wrong, it's cute but proves nothing). I'll have to wait a few months after DA2 is out... and in the bargain bin.

 

[Sephychu]

The people who liked Mass Effect and hated Mass Effect 2 were a very vocal minority. I loved both.

Dragon Age 2 will make changes, probably for the better, possibly for the worse.
Full voice acting makes for a far more immersive game.
I'd very much like some variety in the sequel. They already released the same game with newer plot, it was called Awakening. Changes are welcome in my book.

 

[StarCecil]

The people who liked Mass Effect and hated Mass Effect 2 were a very vocal minority. I loved both.

Dragon Age 2 will make changes, probably for the better, possibly for the worse.
Full voice acting makes for a far more immersive game.
I'd very much like some variety in the sequel. They already released the same game with newer plot, it was called Awakening. Changes are welcome in my book.

Well, that's the thing. Many fans of DA:O liked not having a voice because it was more immersive. Having my character speak for me is not immersive. All they would have to do is make the character emote in context to a scene, which they had to a limited extent in Origins.

And a return to the Warden wouldn't necessarily have the same plot. Just because he's a Warden doesn't mean he can only fight Darkspawn. In fact, the epilogues state he just up and leaves with no explanation, Darkspawn not withstanding.

Let's look at the facts: ME1 was much loved. ME2 was also much loved. However, ME2 had some major changes from ME1, and the fandom cried foul. ME3 is announced to return to those RPG elements left out of ME2. DA:O was a record-setting blockbuster. DA2 is changing everything that made DA:O different from the other RPGs. The fandom cries foul. What are the chances that DA3 will be a return to those RPG elements left out of DA2?

 

[Sephychu]

The people who liked Mass Effect and hated Mass Effect 2 were a very vocal minority. I loved both.

Dragon Age 2 will make changes, probably for the better, possibly for the worse.
Full voice acting makes for a far more immersive game.
I'd very much like some variety in the sequel. They already released the same game with newer plot, it was called Awakening. Changes are welcome in my book.

Well, that's the thing. Many fans of DA:O liked not having a voice because it was more immersive. Having my character speak for me is not immersive. All they would have to do is make the character emote in context to a scene, which they had to a limited extent in Origins.

And a return to the Warden wouldn't necessarily have the same plot. Just because he's a Warden doesn't mean he can only fight Darkspawn. In fact, the epilogues state he just up and leaves with no explanation, Darkspawn not withstanding.

Let's look at the facts: ME1 was much loved. ME2 was also much loved. However, ME2 had some major changes from ME1, and the fandom cried foul. ME3 is announced to return to those RPG elements left out of ME2. DA:O was a record-setting blockbuster. DA2 is changing everything that made DA:O different from the other RPGs. The fandom cries foul. What are the chances that DA3 will be a return to those RPG elements left out of DA2?

I didn't like not having a voice in DA:O. I identified more with Jennifer Hale's Commander Shepard than my DA:O character which I modelled after myself.
I guess different people respond to different things.

Also, they'd be mad to go all the way back to Mass Effect 1's style. Mass Effect 2 shifted far more units.

 

[Snarky Username]

While I agree that taking away character customization is a retarded idea, there's one thing you said that irks me a bit.

(Don't mention ME2, the people that hated ME liked ME2 which means it failed as a sequel, but succeeded as a game, which isn't the same thing)

Isn't the point of a sequel to improve on the original, not just do exactly what the original did? I mean you can say the same thing about Assassin's Creed 2. Many people who hated the first AC loved the second AC because it took what made the original good and took out what made it bad, In my eyes, AC2 is one of the greatest successes when it comes to sequels because it does exactly what sequels are meant to do.

That being said, I've never played ME or ME 2, so I could be misinterpreting what you mean. I took it as "ME 2 was a terrible sequel because people who didn't like th first one loved the second" but feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Kyuubi Fanatic]

Playing the human was fine in ME and ME2 because you were representing your race among the intergalactic community. You weren't just a generic human, you were a human that mattered, and your actions had intergalactic diplomatic consequence. As a new space faring race all the alien species and tech were as new to the player as it was (by and large) for the character.

In DAO it wasn't about representing a single race and it's political standing, but representing a community of races and ideals and preserving that thru the coming storm. As such it didn't really matter which race you chose because every race was an integral part of DA's world, they were already an integrated community. This allowed you to explore your characters origins and discover your races' standing in the community while also giving your character a personal stake in the fight (I for one loved the City Elf origin, really set the tone for just what I would set out to protect)

I'm not against playing the hero with it's already preconfigured backstory in DA2, what I'm against is that after how great DAO is, and how integrated all the races and their stories are to the greater world, Bioware is now going to suddenly limit us to some prefixed nobody? And we're supposed to care? What about our custom character? The hero who defeated the fucking Blight for christ sake, and his colorful companions and romantic interests? A sequel would be perfect for answering all those questions in an engaging and colorful way, but instead we get some random fuckwit from Whocaresville who we're supposed to believe will be an even greater and important character than the Hero of Fereldan?!

No sir. Fuck that.

 

[StarCecil]

Playing the human was fine in ME and ME2 because you were representing your race among the intergalactic community. You weren't just a generic human, you were a human that mattered, and your actions had intergalactic diplomatic consequence. As a new space faring race all the alien species and tech were as new to the player as it was (by and large) for the character.

In DAO it wasn't about representing a single race and it's political standing, but representing a community of races and ideals and preserving that thru the coming storm. As such it didn't really matter which race you chose because every race was an integral part of DA's world, they were already an integrated community. This allowed you to explore your characters origins and discover your races' standing in the community while also giving your character a personal stake in the fight (I for one loved the City Elf origin, really set the tone for just what I would set out to protect)

I'm not against playing the hero with it's already preconfigured backstory in DA2, what I'm against is that after how great DAO is, and how integrated all the races and their stories are to the greater world, Bioware is now going to suddenly limit us to some prefixed nobody? And we're supposed to care? What about our custom character? The hero who defeated the fucking Blight for christ sake, and his colorful companions and romantic interests? A sequel would be perfect for answering all those questions in an engaging and colorful way, but instead we get some random fuckwit from Whocaresville who we're supposed to believe will be an even greater and important character than the Hero of Fereldan?!

No sir. Fuck that.

This^

Really, if my Warden's tale were concluded it would be whatever to me. But the fact that I took time to establish my Human Noble and watch him evolve, much as I did, to someone willing to do whatever it took to save the world, and at the end he was very much like an extension of me. All his endings left him hanging, without a horrible fate or a happy end in store, it really feels like they screwed him. This Hawke guy comes out of left field after they took the time to set up plot hooks and cliffhangers and establish a heroic character in the Warden.

Why would I want to play as Hawke, a character who has been very set to a great degree, when my Warden is already in the hero business and still has shit to do?

 

[Chancie]

Hm...I haven't heard a whole lot about Dragon Age 2 (haven't been keeping up) but this has kinda killed my excitement for it. Customizing your character was an awesome feature and I loved it, so it's a shame to see it go away now.

Well, I'm not going to be completely turned away by it just yet, but I'll stay skeptical. :/

 

[Booze Zombie]

I'm expecting Dragon Age 2 to be quite fun, but there'll probably be some features we're all going to miss from the original.