Dragon Age and Polygamy

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heyheysg

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So I guess Bioware is pretty open minded, between the inter-racial, different sexual orientations and inter species relationships that take place, one thing has always bugged me.

Why no Polygamy or Polygyny, depending on your character.

I mean, is it so wrong that 5 or 6 unique individuals could not all fall in love with each other and live happily in a relationship with everyone?

Other than that seriously, almost every form of relationships are supported or allowed except for polygamy, which is still pretty active now for Muslims, Mormons and other parts of the world.

Animals do it and humans have been doing it for the past few thousand years.

When did it become not ok to have more than 1 partner?

It seems that it causes more problems than it solves, people being sad or murderous over cheating spouses etc.
 

GroovyV

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One step at a time i guess? Not many people have broken any kind of ground (in video games) with this topic, and most politicians and women rights people and parents and regular cath/christ church goers, (the kind of groups that usually respond and complain about games that have things in them they dont like), would immediately get defensive.
 

Trolldor

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...because there's really not a market for it, and the writing and characterisation would be extreme? It would be a sub-plot all unto itself?
 

Hellsen

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Yea, the thought came across my mind before but i think Bioware just doesn't want to cross that line just yet, and if they do Furries and Loli might complain and ***** about it.
 

WolfThomas

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I think Polyamory is the correct term, polygamy means you are going to marry them all. I was actually thinking about this a while ago. In my mind my character from the first game lived happily ever after with both Leliana and Zehvran.
 

Monkfish Acc.

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It is very difficult to write that sort of thing without making it seem like some kind of wish-fulfilment fantasy.
Easier to stick with what you know. And most people only really know monogamy.

Plus, I imagine someone will get up in arms about it. Lots of gay dudes, suddenly it is saying gays are promiscuous. Couple of women, objectification. Bunch of lesbians, refer to gay dudes. Multiple dudes for one gal, probably some bitching about cock size or double penetration or whatever.

Big can of worms, either way, and not really something a medium still seen as glorified toys can tackle. Even movies probably wouldn't go there outside of the indie market.
 

TheBelgianGuy

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Doesn't every JRPG or other japanese 'games' have a secret 'get all the girls' ending?

Straying Bullet said:
heyheysg said:
Other than that seriously, almost every form of relationships are supported or allowed except for polygamy, which is still pretty active now for Muslims, Mormons and other parts of the world.
Just wanted to say, Polygamy isn't allowed in Islam. Thought you'd find it curious to know.

Also, it'd be bad-ass to have Morrigan and 'forcing' Leilana together in some polygamous relationship. Would be interesting~
You're right, it's one of those common misconceptions about Islam... just like every woman wears a Burqa, all Muslims are Arab,...
 

Wutaiflea

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I don't mind polyamourous relationships not being available as a general thing, but I will admit, this bothered me in the first Dragon Age.

I think, given Zevran's, and even to a lesser extent, Leiliana's, motivations, it does seem as though it should be possible to continue relationships with them simultaneously. I'd be happy for neither of them to fall head over heels for the main character, but just bimble along in an open relationship, just because it makes sense. Why would generally promiscuous characters have a problem with the idea?

I also wonder why you never have the ability to lie to your in-game partner, especially when you're playing a douchebag.
 

The Gnome King

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heyheysg said:
Why no Polygamy or Polygyny, depending on your character.

I mean, is it so wrong that 5 or 6 unique individuals could not all fall in love with each other and live happily in a relationship with everyone?

Other than that seriously, almost every form of relationships are supported or allowed except for polygamy, which is still pretty active now for Muslims, Mormons and other parts of the world.

Animals do it and humans have been doing it for the past few thousand years.

When did it become not ok to have more than 1 partner?

It seems that it causes more problems than it solves, people being sad or murderous over cheating spouses etc.
I'll try and answer your questions one by one as I see them because there's a lot going on here. I can't tell if you're asking a question or trying to make a point; or both.

1 - Why no Polygamy or Polygyny, depending on your character. I mean, is it so wrong that 5 or 6 unique individuals could not all fall in love with each other and live happily in a relationship with everyone?

Well, I don't think it's wrong but I'm a bisexual, polyamorous male who lives with his wife of 11 years and his male partner of approximately 9 years. We have lived as close to "happily ever after" as I think it is possible for people to live since we've been together. The reason WHY I don't think Bioware has done this is that people are still getting used to the idea of bisexuality and homosexuality in games. Springing polyamory on them as well might be a bit much to swallow all at once. (No pun intended.) Would I like to see this in a game as a romance option? Sure. But I'll take my same-sex romance options for now and enjoy that aspect of things.

2 - Other than that seriously, almost every form of relationships are supported or allowed except for polygamy, which is still pretty active now for Muslims, Mormons and other parts of the world.

I would say far more people are polyamorous and just rather closeted about it than polygamous Mormons exist. As far as Muslims go - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polygyny_in_Islam - there are various ways Muslim religions practice it, depending on the culture.

3 - I mean, is it so wrong that 5 or 6 unique individuals could not all fall in love with each other and live happily in a relationship with everyone?

Not at all, but let me tell you; at one point in time I had an active relationship going with my wife, my male partner, and my bisexual wife AND I had multiple relationships going on with other women; one of whom lived with us. At that point there was some jealousy; mainly from women who were jealous that my relationship with my wife was a "primary" one. Oddly enough, men seem to handle it better - from my own personal experience. I don't mean to paint all women with the same brush because some women handle it just fine.

Finding a long-term non-religious situation where 5 or 6 people cohabitate is quite rare. I see mostly quads (usually two couples) and triads, like what I live in.

4 - It seems that it causes more problems than it solves, people being sad or murderous over cheating spouses etc.

Well this would be an opinion. I haven't seen statistics on murders due to polyamorous situations but I'd wager that alcohol in bar fights leads to more deaths than polyamorous jealousy does. ;) Not everyone experiences jealousy in the same way.

SO in conclusion, why don't games feature it yet? Probably because it's simply complex enough when we have society just now beginning to accept gays. Blacks couldn't legally marry whites back in the 1950's, for example. Imagine trying to write a book about a black marrying a white woman in, say, 1920 in the deep south - would it have been morally wrong to do that? Is a black marrying a white a horrible thing? Of course not; but in the 1920's such a book would have been a scandal.

And so polyamory exists for society now.
 

The Gnome King

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Straying Bullet said:
heyheysg said:
Other than that seriously, almost every form of relationships are supported or allowed except for polygamy, which is still pretty active now for Muslims, Mormons and other parts of the world.
Just wanted to say, Polygamy isn't allowed in Islam. Thought you'd find it curious to know.

Also, it'd be bad-ass to have Morrigan and 'forcing' Leilana together in some polygamous relationship. Would be interesting~
Polygamy most certainly is allowed in some forms of Islam.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polygyny_in_Islam

In Islam, polygamy is allowed and practised under certain restricted conditions. Muslim men are allowed to practise polygyny, that is, they can have more than one wife at the same time, up to a total of four. Polyandry, by contrast, is not permitted.
Some Muslim-majority countries have Islamic law (sharia) which permits polygyny, although there is internal debate regarding the role of women in Islam. See this discussion on the extent to which states can and do recognize these forms as valid.
Polygamy for Muslims, in practice and in law, differs greatly throughout the Islamic world, where polygamous marriages constitute only 1?3% of all marriages.[1] In some Muslim countries, polygamy is relatively common, while in others, it is rare or non-existent. Tunisia, for example, is a predominantly Muslim country where polygamy is not legal.
 

The Gnome King

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TheBelgianGuy said:
Doesn't every JRPG or other japanese 'games' have a secret 'get all the girls' ending?

Straying Bullet said:
heyheysg said:
Other than that seriously, almost every form of relationships are supported or allowed except for polygamy, which is still pretty active now for Muslims, Mormons and other parts of the world.
Just wanted to say, Polygamy isn't allowed in Islam. Thought you'd find it curious to know.

Also, it'd be bad-ass to have Morrigan and 'forcing' Leilana together in some polygamous relationship. Would be interesting~
You're right, it's one of those common misconceptions about Islam... just like every woman wears a Burqa, all Muslims are Arab,...
Polygamy is uncommon is Islam but it is allowed under sharia law and is practiced in some Muslim countries; see my links above and do a little research. I'm surprised more people don't know this.
 

Trolldor

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The Gnome King said:
Straying Bullet said:
heyheysg said:
Other than that seriously, almost every form of relationships are supported or allowed except for polygamy, which is still pretty active now for Muslims, Mormons and other parts of the world.
Just wanted to say, Polygamy isn't allowed in Islam. Thought you'd find it curious to know.

Also, it'd be bad-ass to have Morrigan and 'forcing' Leilana together in some polygamous relationship. Would be interesting~
Polygamy most certainly is allowed in some forms of Islam.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polygyny_in_Islam

In Islam, polygamy is allowed and practised under certain restricted conditions. Muslim men are allowed to practise polygyny, that is, they can have more than one wife at the same time, up to a total of four. Polyandry, by contrast, is not permitted.
Some Muslim-majority countries have Islamic law (sharia) which permits polygyny, although there is internal debate regarding the role of women in Islam. See this discussion on the extent to which states can and do recognize these forms as valid.
Polygamy for Muslims, in practice and in law, differs greatly throughout the Islamic world, where polygamous marriages constitute only 1?3% of all marriages.[1] In some Muslim countries, polygamy is relatively common, while in others, it is rare or non-existent. Tunisia, for example, is a predominantly Muslim country where polygamy is not legal.
Hey, let's not forget the temporary marriages as well.
 

TheBelgianGuy

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The Gnome King said:
TheBelgianGuy said:
Doesn't every JRPG or other japanese 'games' have a secret 'get all the girls' ending?

Straying Bullet said:
heyheysg said:
Other than that seriously, almost every form of relationships are supported or allowed except for polygamy, which is still pretty active now for Muslims, Mormons and other parts of the world.
Just wanted to say, Polygamy isn't allowed in Islam. Thought you'd find it curious to know.

Also, it'd be bad-ass to have Morrigan and 'forcing' Leilana together in some polygamous relationship. Would be interesting~
You're right, it's one of those common misconceptions about Islam... just like every woman wears a Burqa, all Muslims are Arab,...
Polygamy is uncommon is Islam but it is allowed under sharia law and is practiced in some Muslim countries; see my links above and do a little research. I'm surprised more people don't know this.
Let's not forget that "Islam" as such doesn't really exist. There is a huge difference between Sunni's, Shiite, Sufists,...

Some Islamic countries are secular. Some Islamic countries outright forbade women wearing the Burqa. Other Islamic countries have death-sentences on homosexuality or converting to another religion.

You can't just throw all Muslims into one corner. That would be like saying the US was entirely the same as, say, Norway or Poland, since they're Christian countries.

Edit: I'm sorry, that was completely offtopic, wasn't it?

Ontopic: Considering the backlash they got for even making some characters bisexual, you can't blame them for not even going into polygamy.
 

zombiejoe

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Play Alpha Protocol

You can get every female teammate in the game to sleep with you.


And they said it was the poor man's mass effect, well let me tell you something

*goes on long winded speech, passes out*
 

The Gnome King

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Straying Bullet said:
The Gnome King said:
Straying Bullet said:
heyheysg said:
Other than that seriously, almost every form of relationships are supported or allowed except for polygamy, which is still pretty active now for Muslims, Mormons and other parts of the world.
Just wanted to say, Polygamy isn't allowed in Islam. Thought you'd find it curious to know.

Also, it'd be bad-ass to have Morrigan and 'forcing' Leilana together in some polygamous relationship. Would be interesting~
Polygamy most certainly is allowed in some forms of Islam.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polygyny_in_Islam

In Islam, polygamy is allowed and practised under certain restricted conditions. Muslim men are allowed to practise polygyny, that is, they can have more than one wife at the same time, up to a total of four. Polyandry, by contrast, is not permitted.
Some Muslim-majority countries have Islamic law (sharia) which permits polygyny, although there is internal debate regarding the role of women in Islam. See this discussion on the extent to which states can and do recognize these forms as valid.
Polygamy for Muslims, in practice and in law, differs greatly throughout the Islamic world, where polygamous marriages constitute only 1?3% of all marriages.[1] In some Muslim countries, polygamy is relatively common, while in others, it is rare or non-existent. Tunisia, for example, is a predominantly Muslim country where polygamy is not legal.
Fun to quote the the Wikipedia whilst I am referring to Hadiths and saying of the Prophet of Islam.

"It is allowed. But can you be fair and just, 100%? No you can't. Nor are you capable of doing so because God made it unable for you to do so."

What is being implied is that you can attempt but you will lack the ability to do so. In return, you are going to give some kind of inferior love/compassion to one of your women, rendering the polygamy completely useless and invalid. Henceforth, not allowed.

Also, Polygamy was restricted shortly after the Prophet had multiple women. Culture and Religion, whilst one might influence one, shouldn't be confused. Islam is not condoning it.

I also must point out, there isn't one single nation right now following Sharia or could be labeled "An Islamic nation/country" because they are not.
But yet there are nations out there with practicing Muslims who have multiple wives. Do you deny this? Are they simply, in your mind, bad Muslims/not true Muslims?

I'm genuinely curious, not trying to start anything, it's just everything I have learned in my studies of Muslim culture state that while most Muslims have only one wife there are several countries where being Muslim and polygamous is common.

If you don't like wiki, here:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=90857818

http://www.islamfortoday.com/polygamy5.htm - Which states:

"It is both honest and accurate to say that it is Islam that regulated this practice, limited it, made it more humane, and instituted equal rights and status for all wives. What the Quranic decrees amount to, taken together, is a discouragement of polygamy unless necessity for it exists.

It is also evident that the general rule in Islam is monogamy and not polygamy. However, permission to practice limited polygamy is only consistent with Islam?s realistic view of the nature of man and women and of the various social needs, problems, and cultural variations."

Certainly doesn't sound like a blanket condemnation of polygamy.

http://www.discoveringislam.org/polygamy_in_islam.htm

"Islam "allows" (but does not encourage) Muslim men to marry up to 4 wives at the same time, provided that the man is fair in treating his wives. The Quran says that if a men cannot meet this condition, then he should be married to only one woman. On the other hand, Muslim women are not allowed to be married to more than one man at the same time. Please note that "group" marital relationship is not allowed.

On a worldwide basis, most Muslim men do not marry more than one woman. The popularity of Islamic polygamy varies from countries to another. In some countries, it is more common than in other Islamic countries. For example, in Saudi Arabia, Islamic polygamy is much more common than in Egypt.

Generally speaking, Shia Muslim are more likely to practice polygamy. In Lebanon and Iraq, for example, Islamic polygamy is far more practiced among Shia Muslims than among Sunni Muslims."

Soooo... yeah. To say that polygamy is not practiced in Muslim countries is a falsehood, it would seem - no?
 

Gunner 51

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Straying Bullet said:
Just wanted to say, Polygamy isn't allowed in Islam. Thought you'd find it curious to know.

Also, it'd be bad-ass to have Morrigan and 'forcing' Leilana together in some polygamous relationship. Would be interesting~
Blimey, you just hit on some serious Rule 34 stuff with your thoughts on Morrigan and Leliana. Coming from me who got rebuffed by Morrigan and ended up sleeping with Leliana on the rebound - I'm such a dog sometimes.
 

The Gnome King

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TheBelgianGuy said:
The Gnome King said:
TheBelgianGuy said:
Doesn't every JRPG or other japanese 'games' have a secret 'get all the girls' ending?

Straying Bullet said:
heyheysg said:
Other than that seriously, almost every form of relationships are supported or allowed except for polygamy, which is still pretty active now for Muslims, Mormons and other parts of the world.
Just wanted to say, Polygamy isn't allowed in Islam. Thought you'd find it curious to know.

Also, it'd be bad-ass to have Morrigan and 'forcing' Leilana together in some polygamous relationship. Would be interesting~
You're right, it's one of those common misconceptions about Islam... just like every woman wears a Burqa, all Muslims are Arab,...
Polygamy is uncommon is Islam but it is allowed under sharia law and is practiced in some Muslim countries; see my links above and do a little research. I'm surprised more people don't know this.
Let's not forget that "Islam" as such doesn't really exist. There is a huge difference between Sunni's, Shiite, Sufists,...

Some Islamic countries are secular. Some Islamic countries outright forbade women wearing the Burqa. Other Islamic countries have death-sentences on homosexuality or converting to another religion.

You can't just throw all Muslims into one corner. That would be like saying the US was entirely the same as, say, Norway or Poland, since they're Christian countries.

Edit: I'm sorry, that was completely offtopic, wasn't it?

Ontopic: Considering the backlash they got for even making some characters bisexual, you can't blame them for not even going into polygamy.
Not throwing all Muslims into the same corner; there are Mormons who allow polygamy and Mormons who don't. (Though the "official" Church of Mormon has made this a heresy.)

My only point is that some muslims, in some countries, practice polygamy. See my post above and all the links. It appears to be more common in Saudi Arabia and Iran, less common in other Islamic nations.

That is all. Somebody just made a blanket statement that "Muslims don't practice polygamy" and I felt the need to correct that to "some, actually, do" ... that is all.

I actually have nothing against Muslims and am polyamorous myself.

EDIT: Don't really think it IS off topic, since the original poster mentioned "Muslims" as people in his OP as examples of a culture that practices polygamy. Now we're simply having a discussion as to the truth of this statement.
 

infohippie

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Hmm, in my first playthrough of DA, I did manage to get a threesome with Leliana and Isabella.