Dragon Age - Duncan was NOT a good person (Spoiler warning)

[DEAD34345]

Yeah, Duncan's a psychopath as far as I'm concerned. Most of the things he gets up to (such as the forced conscriptions) can be excused, I mean he really needs all the Wardens he can get, this is end-of-the-world doomsday stuff so anything goes in the name of victory.

Ser Jory though, yeah, that scene plays like an incredibly violent slapstick routine or something. First he's just nervous, he panics a little and doesn't really want to drink deadly poison (very understandable) and then *bam* psycho Duncan comes at him with a knife and spills his guts out. Came out of nowhere, and it was completely unnecessary.

Then again, a large part of the reason I found that scene so shocking and hilarious was probably the fact that everyone happened to be stood around in their underwear. I took their armor and weapons off them so that I wouldn't lose them if they died...

 

[AntiChri5]

Well no shit. Duncan is not a good guy. He is polite and friendly, but will not hesitate to straight up murder anyone who gets in the way of his goal. Which happens to be saving the world.

Anyone here familiar with how he joined the Wardens?

Spoiler

He was a street thief that attempted to steal a ring off a Grey Warden. The Warden refused to let it go, preffering to fight to the death. When the guards came, his murder was discovered and he was slated to be executed. The Grey Warden commander that that Grey Warden was serving under intervened and recruited him instead. Why? Because he was capable of killing a Grey Warden in combat. It didn't matter that she wanted to kill him, it didn't matter that he had killed her fiance in an attempt to steal their wedding ring, what mattered was his skill

.

I have remarkably little sympathy for Jory. Duncan never misled about the dangers. He was upfront about the fact that joining the Wardens meant a hard short life of constant danger. But the moment Jory realised it wasn't all glorius marches and shining armour he tried to quit. He refused to risk his life while backing away and drawing his weapon on his superior officer. As recently as WW2 that would have gotten you straight up shot. Modern militaries might not be so direct, or lethal, but thats still the kind of thing they frown on. After joinig, you cannot simply refuse to obey orders or risk your life. Any military organisation that lets things like that go soon falls apart.

 

[Sniper Team 4]

If word got out that, in order to join the Grey Wardens you had to drink something that could literally kill you, and even if you do survive you are doomed to a tormented end, no one would join the Grey Wardens. Jory could not be allowed to back out. He would have run off screaming to anyone who would listen about what they tried to make him and, and their numbers would plummet.
Alistair praises Duncan and loves him because he was really the only family he ever had. He took care of Alistair and raised him basically. Gave him a purpose in life. But otherwise, Duncan is the perfect Grey Warden: get the job done, no matter the cost. You see it also in that Warden who shows up at the end of the game. Although perhaps a bit more sympathetic--he does apologize about the fact that he's sending them to die--he has the same attitude. You can tell by the way he talks and his calm attitude. These guys realize what is at stake, and they know that rules and morals can sometimes get in the way.

 

[Artaneius]

Well no shit that he doesn't just "help" you out of bad situations. No one does or ever will. When someone does something for you, they generally expect something back later usually as a favor. That's how the world works. People do things either because they have too (survival) or because they think it will better themselves later on (opportunities, karma, etc.) When you donate to the poor what is the biggest reason why you do it? Because if you were in that bad of the position you would want people to do the same. So you donate because you want good karma to reflect upon you and if something bad happens you expect that same generosity. What Duncan did was to make sure that the Grey Wardens actually have members. If everyone knew the truth about the situation, then no one would join. That's commonsense because everyone is selfish.

 

[Radoh]

No, of course he wasn't. He exemplified what it meant to be a Grey Warden.
Victory at any cost.
Never turn away help, no matter what it is.

"You're family's dead? Join the wardens."
"You killed a noble? Don't care, I'll conscript you."
"You are accused of killing your brother? I don't care if you did or not, you are in."
"You let a dangerous blood mage free and helped destroy the only thing that could track him? Seems like you'll need a home."
"You're a common thief? Great, we could always use more Rogues."

There was an instance in the camp where I got caught picking someone's pocket, so he went straight to Duncan and demanded that something be done.
Duncan brushed him off and basically threatened him to try something, so after I talked to him he immediately turned on me and told me he knew that I was indeed picking pockets, and that it's fine to hone your skills, "Just don't get caught." A subordinate was caught stealing and he knew it was true and did nothing about it. Because he needs all Grey Wardens, even the dastardly ones who steal 9 copper from a pocket of a soldier.
He's the most Grey Warden out of every Grey Warden that's ever Grey Wardened a Grey Warden.
Just because Alistair's a boy scout and loves his daddy Duncan doesn't mean anything.

 

[Irridium]

Duncan killing Jory made sense. There's a chance that Jory could blab about the Warden initiation, word would get around, and then they would have quite a hard time recruiting people. And considering it was the beginning of a blight, that's not something you'd want to get around. It was understandable. Plus, he did say that there was no going back.

Granted I also didn't have much love for Duncan. But that was more because I barely had time to get to know him.

 

[Amir Kondori]

Well no shit that he doesn't just "help" you out of bad situations. No one does or ever will. When someone does something for you, they generally expect something back later usually as a favor. That's how the world works. People do things either because they have too (survival) or because they think it will better themselves later on (opportunities, karma, etc.) When you donate to the poor what is the biggest reason why you do it? Because if you were in that bad of the position you would want people to do the same. So you donate because you want good karma to reflect upon you and if something bad happens you expect that same generosity. What Duncan did was to make sure that the Grey Wardens actually have members. If everyone knew the truth about the situation, then no one would join. That's commonsense because everyone is selfish.

Many people act compassionately because it is innately rewarding, not because they are calculating and expecting reward. Most people are wired to feel good about helping out people, more so the closer they are to you.

Not to say that all of the things you have listed don't also happen. I just think it is a mistake to think those are the only reasons people show each other compassion.

 

[Artaneius]

Also... for the majority of human history disobedience in the military often resulted in either harsh injuries or death. Also your family would be punished for your conduct if you did something really serious such as treason. Dragon Age Origins as all fantasy games reflect middle age type behaviors, something like this should be expected. It honestly wasn't until after Vietnam I think where punishments for military disobedience wasn't as serious for American soldiers. I could be wrong, but I do know even in WW2 and the Korean War had very harsh punishments for not obeying superior officers orders.

 

[OpticalJunction]

True he was an opportunist in recruiting you, however he wasn't asking anything of you that he wouldn't have done himself, and it was all in the name of saving Ferelden, something you both want (presumably).

Killing Jory was over the top though, that part I agree with you. He could've kept him alive in a dungeon if he was worried about him blabbing about the joining, or sent him to Wynne, who apparently already knew about the joining anyway.

 

[WouldYouKindly]

Um, yeah. That's how it goes when you're a Grey Warden. He needs bodies, you need an exit, mutually beneficial arrangement. Seriously it's not like his cause doesn't require this level of sacrifice. He doesn't care about you or your problems, he's got a hoard of monsters to kill and you're good with a sword/staff. He helps you because the whole fucking world might need it.

 

[Cooperblack]

They are called Grey wardens for a reason - not white Wardens nor black wardens but Grey!

 

[Cooperblack]

Double post somehow..

 

[Madman123456]

Yeah, duncan was evil. I get ser Jory's desire to get away. I figure he wasn't told what this induction ceremony actually entails and bioware makes it look like that even if you survive this ordeal the rest of your life becomes a slow descend into psychopathic madness until you eventually turn into what you're fighting.

One might argue that this is a sacred secret or something and it can't get out because the grey wardens fear that the arch demons might come up with something to counter the grey warden's attempt to permanently kill them somehow.
Once you know how the grey wardens are made, you have to become one or possibly endanger the entire world.
Fair enough. But duncan could've just forced the dude to drink the "bloody mary". Maybe he'd die and maybe he'd be a grey warden, since there's apparently something in the blood that magically makes you loyal to your fellow, well, living things.

 

[Another]

Never saw him as a good guy. Just a "means to an end guy". He was doing what he thought was necessary for victory even if it meant being a dick to do it. I also think that it was more just Alister in morning cause he saw Duncan as a guide and father figure. The game never showed my character being too terribly upset, and as a player I wasn't upset either. If Bioware'goal was, if fact, to make us feel bad about his death, then they failed.

 

[Funyahns]

Freedom to take the consequences is not a very popular notion among some people. You don't have to join up, you can choose to die instead. That doesn't make Duncan a bad person, it makes you a fool for being in a position where only someones interference can save you from the mess you have created for yourself.

 

[Gorog2]

I remember playing it the first time and thinking, "OH DAMN!!!", when Duncan killed Ser Jory.

 

[Fireaxe]

Duncan wasn't doing these things because he wanted to, he was doing them because he felt that's what he had to do.