Dragon Age II and the decline of the classic RPG

[Undead Dragon King]

http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/116/1168985p1.html

This is an excellently written article that describes how Dragon Age II's glaring differences with its predecessor are part of a much larger theme in gaming today. That theme can be summed up as the death of the RPG genre as we know it, but the rebirth of its core elements in other game types.

Read the article- really, it's worth your time- and discuss. Is the RPG genre on its way out the door?

EDIT: I do not personally subscribe to this view, but the article is well written. This is merely for discussion purposes.

 

[GiantRaven]

I hate the attitude of 'if this had a different title, I would feel differently about the game'. It's dumb. A good game is a good game.

 

[Toasty Virus]

I found DA1 to be painfully boring, but I played DA2 for almost that entire past weekend.

Weird.

 

[Ilikemilkshake]

I loved DA:O, and i loved DA:2
Yes i was sad to see most of the RPG elements get to boot but i still enjoyed the game at least as much as Origins.
So while i'll miss the classic RPG, as long as studios like Bioware are still making good RPGish games, i'll be happy.

 

[veloper]

DA2 is just mediocre.

If you're going to take a game and make it more actiony, atleast do it right and not in the most half-assed way possible.
Spamming one button to accomplish the same as an auto-attack, is for retards and Bio have been pretty upfront about just how little they think of the mental capacity of their fans.

If Bio made the action more true like TW2 there wouldn't have been so much flack.
If instead they had taken DA:O and improved the tactical, non-action combat, that would have been an incline even.
They did neither.

 

[Darth IB]

I never was too fond of the "classic" rpg style, so I don't mind this transformation at all.
As far as I'm concerned, pretty much all the changes from DA:O to DA2 were improvements.

 

[D0WNT0WN]

To be completly honest Dragon Age 2 is a bad homolust fanfiction which felt like it was written by a Stephenie Meyer follower. Dragon Age 2 was squeezed into the Mass Effect template and it ruined the game.

I loved Dragon Age Origins but I was really dissapointed with Dragon Age 2; I really tried to like it as well.

 

[erztez]

I never was too fond of the "classic" rpg style, so I don't mind this transformation at all.
As far as I'm concerned, pretty much all the changes from DA:O to DA2 were improvements.

What, you really like when they give you one zone with variable doors 12 times in a row?

 

[Kingsnake661]

I like the inclusion of RPG elements in different game geners. *shrug* I hope it doesn't mean the end of the traditional RPG, but, well, i don't really play them as much now a days. I just don't have the time... and my paticence for micro managing isn't what it used to be. there was a time, way back, when powerleveling for a day or 2 at a time, hunting for the uber loot for hours at a time, or what have you, was second hat and something i enjoyed.

Not anymore... i'm not sure when it happened... but, i'm not the same gamer i was. I've tried to recapture the magic of old by replaying some old fav's... but.. heh they annoy me now a days. Just the other night, i droped 2 bucks on Shinning force 1 on steam. GOD, the HOURS i blew on that game back in the day... I couldn't make it past the 5 battle... the item managment was KILLING ME... only 3 slots before you have to move stuff off, no common storage, GHAHHAHA.

So... yeah... i'm ok with it. But, for the sake of people how still find joy in the old style, i hope it presists in some form for you guys. But, it's not going to be what it was... i'm afraid to say.

 

[Kevlar Eater]

What turned me away from DA2 wasn't the scathing reviews or bad storyline, but what EA/Bioware are doing with the DLC. I see no reason for paying for one game for the price of two or three.

 

[Glademaster_v1legacy]

Well video game RPGs were never anything like table top RPGs so this evolution doesn't surpirse me. The increasing amount of games on consoles does affect RPGs as they can't have as complex controls on consoles as on PC.

 

[WithmirTeigh]

Not even Starcraft 2? Anyway I see that there are very few AAA titles that are true rpgs but I only found that DA2 was lacking greatest in polish and the reused dungeons.

 

[Hyper-space]

Its the decline of the traditional RPG, the ones with clunky inventory management and problems instead of choice, not the RPG genre itself. All of this lamenting is nothing but melodrama and overreaction to the logical evolution of the genre, technical capabilities were always just a matter of time, so when you find that the RPG genre no longer consists of the same formula as the Baldurs Gate and Icewind Dale series, don't be surprised! its the same reason why you find cars of all different shapes, sizes and utilities today instead of a single 1891 Panhard-Levassor type of vehicle.

The writer's reasons for DA1 being more enjoyable are based upon nostalgia and stagnation, something which he dresses up as "soul and heritage" and it seems that its what made DA1 so well received, not the game itself, but the nostalgic feeling they got from clunky inventory management and trite story-telling.

I have been saying this on other threads that touch upon the subject of RPGs, and that is that the genre is defined by two concepts: Character Progression and Character Differentiation, and that things such as stats, inventory management and redundancies are not central to the genre, but over-used tropes.

What bothers me the most is how a lot of these trite and formulaic RPG-tropes seem to rely solely on your ability to tell which number is higher and how vehemently the "hardcore" crowd has opposed any attempt to have it test different skills (such as strategy, snap-decision making, etc.).

But ugh.....let them piss and moan for all i care, i for one can't wait for a different experience than what the tired formula of RPG making has given me.

 

[erztez]

Its the decline of the traditional RPG, the ones with clunky inventory management and problems instead of choice, not the RPG genre itself. All of this lamenting is nothing but melodrama and overreaction to the logical evolution of the genre, technical capabilities were always just a matter of time, so when you find that the RPG genre no longer consists of the same formula as the Baldurs Gate and Icewind Dale series, don't be surprised! its the same reason why you find cars of all different shapes, sizes and utilities today instead of a single 1891 Panhard-Levassor type of vehicle.

The writer's reasons for DA1 being more enjoyable are based upon nostalgia and stagnation, something which he dresses up as "soul and heritage" and it seems that its what made DA1 so well received, not the game itself, but the nostalgic feeling they got from clunky inventory management and trite story-telling.

I have been saying this on other threads that touch upon the subject of RPGs, and that is that the genre is defined by two concepts: Character Progression and Character Differentiation, and that things such as stats, inventory management and redundancies are not central to the genre, but over-used tropes.

What bothers me the most is how a lot of these trite and formulaic RPG-tropes seem to rely solely on your ability to tell which number is higher and how vehemently the "hardcore" crowd has opposed any attempt to have it test different skills (such as strategy, snap-decision making, etc.).

But ugh.....let them piss and moan for all i care, i for one can't wait for a different experience than what the tired formula of RPG making has given me.

You do realize that DA2 had exactly neither of those? Even on nightmare, it was piss easy if you set your build right, and that just shouldn't happen.
Also, endlessly spawning mobs out of thin air =/= difficulty...

And one other thing, DA2 didn't have any character differentiation. It had 1.5 endings, and the choice of which ending you would see happened about 20 minutes before the outro...so, that.

 

[chstens]

DA2 isn't a "classic RPG". DA2 is DA2. Jesus fucking christ, all these people having to label everything, and if something doesn't match their version of the label, then THE PLAGUE ON IT!

 

[veloper]

What bothers me the most is how a lot of these trite and formulaic RPG-tropes seem to rely solely on your ability to tell which number is higher and how vehemently the "hardcore" crowd has opposed any attempt to have it test different skills (such as strategy, snap-decision making, etc.).

Why would you let it bother you. The games liked by the oldskoolers like are rarely made now, you'll never be able find one.

But ugh.....let them piss and moan for all i care, i for one can't wait for a different experience than what the tired formula of RPG making has given me.

As if action-RPGs are a new thing and DA2 held an original idea, instead the shit it is compared to proper ARPGs like DS and TW2.

 

[Ranorak]

You do realize that this is nothing new.
When Baldur's Gate was released, Tabletop DnD players complained.
When Neverwinter was released, Baldur's Gate players complained.
When Morrowind was released Neverwinter's Night Players complained.
etc. etc.

 

[JMeganSnow]

I never was too fond of the "classic" rpg style, so I don't mind this transformation at all.
As far as I'm concerned, pretty much all the changes from DA:O to DA2 were improvements.

Considering that the "classic" RPG's people seem to talk about are apparently like SIX GAMES: Baldur's Gate 1 and 2, Planescape: Torment, Fallout 1 (and sometimes Fallout 2), and Ultima. Yeah. A few games TOTALLY define an entire genre.

I started playing with the REAL "classic" RPGS. Pool of Radiance. Curse of the Azure Bonds. Secret of the Silver Blades. Eye of the Beholder. Dark Sun.

Due to much greater internal complexity than most games (in some respects) and the fact that the original "RPG" was a turn-based pen-and-paper game, there has always been difficulty making best use of the genre in computer games.

 

[varulfic]

Even I am getting a bit tired of the Dragon Age 2 hate by this point, and I was on the hatewagon from the moment the dialogue wheel was announced.

I mean really, the game might have been a disappointment, but it's just one game - next to the dozen good games bioware has made. Everyone is entitled to atleast one mistake, no? Maybe we can just let this slide? It's not the end of the world, no matter what this article will try to tell you. Besides, with the harsh backlash DA2 has recieved from it's fanbase, I'm sure bioware has learned something from this experience. Like I always say - Everyone gets a second chance, Sarevok Bioware. Even you.