Dragon Age : Origins - An utter disappointment ?

[nightwolf667]

The point I'm making to you is: in my brief study of Shakespeare (two classes in college) in my English Major education, I learned more unique, useful, interesting things from him in the way to tell stories. From Bioware I have only learned what not to do.

I, too had two shakespeare classes in college. I, too was an English major. And everything you learned from Shakespeare about the way to tell stories, you actually learned from folklore. But now you have a name. It's a personal vendetta and a personal issue, sure. But I don't think the guy was magic. He was just a guy, and if he didn't do it some other prick would have. (maybe it's just because those two classes were required and the Shakespeare collection we had to buy was HUGE and expensive and impossible to resell.)

Other pricks did. That time period is very rich with many playwrights who were also extremely successful. If you were to compare Shakespeare to say Thomas Marlowe or Ben Jonson, we would be having a different discussion. And no, I everything I learned on how to tell stories was actually from Shakespeare himself. You say it's from "folklore" while citing no examples for me to go and look up, but my professors also shared where Shakespeare got the ideas of several of his stories from. The Greeks for instance, but what's important about Shakespeare is the way he told those stories. As an English Major, I'd think you'd know this.

Or did you not trace the evolution of English Literature?

Shakespeare's stories aren't his stories. That's my point. The themes he used, the stories and relationships that people keep revising and modernized were themselves revised and modernized by Shakespeare himself.

No, Shakespeare isn't magic, but he was both extremely popular and able to touch on thematic elements (and as we know, thematic elements are fundamental to an underlying story structure) that were unique and different. As you've admitted and I've said, what makes material become original is "what you do with the material you're given". This is what Shakespeare succeeded at and Bioware has failed at.

And when Bioware has been around for four hundred years, I'm sure they'll let you know. If their games are all we have left after the Grandest LifePurge, then yeah. There will be people who genuinely love their work.

Maybe, but I'm going to go with probably not. For one thing, they don't do anything unique or interesting with the materials they use and they don't even bother trying.

I'm willing to admit (and celebrate) that I am being VERY unfair to Shakespeare and those who love his work.

Your bias is fairly obvious and I wouldn't say you're being unfair. Instead, you come across like you've missed the point.

I disagree with the idea that he is the founding Jesus of Western Literature, because there was literature before him and it was good, too, and there was literature after him and a MOST OF IT was not his.

No one is saying that he's the "founding Jesus of Western Literature". I'm pretty sure that most scholars will agree that Western Literature starts with Beowulf and the Anglo Saxons. But the truth of the matter is that he's been extremely influential to the way that stories are told. Such as the five act structure, his comedy, his villains, the fact that he used minorities in his plays who were (for the most part) more than simple caricatures. Yes, if he never existed someone else might have taken his place.

And no, depending on how you look at it, his stories did come from other places (including real life). The plot of Richard III is not from "folklore" and neither is Henry VIII or Henry IV. Well, I suppose it could be depending on what you want to define as "folklore". The point is the way that Shakespeare told his stories was done in a different manner from what came before and that's why they are memorable.

Why can't you major in Asimov? or why don't universities have a Kafka department? Shakespeare is treated like a genre unto himself and it just gets annoying.

And here's where you just shot your last bit of credibility in the foot. (Not that you had any left after misusing the verb: to write.)

You can in fact major in Kafka, just like you can major in Shakespeare, Russian Literature, Medieval Literature, ect. It just requires going to graduate school. When we get our Bachelors we are not majoring in Shakespeare, we're majoring in English Lit. No matter how you personally feel about him, Shakespeare is an important part of that tradition and just like John Donne, Edmund Spenser, and all the other great writers of the past centuries (leading all the way back to Beowulf) he has to be learned whether we like it or not.

Thankfully, Bioware doesn't.

 

[Zenn3k]

I could never get into it either, I found it really repetitive and boring.

The combat system was terrible and didn't work nearly as well as I would have liked.

I never finished it and I don't really care that I didn't.

 

[MR.Spartacus]

For me it had a bland story and rubbish combat. It just felt like it was unfinished. Plus it was nearly impossible to tell the fights apart. It was just overwhelmingly underwhelming.

 

[artstsym]

So after an entire game of trying (in vain) to get it on with Alistair, I've come to several conclusions: 1) Goody-good paladin types are extremely lame, 2) Dragon Age: Origins is a rather bland - if professional - RPG that brings almost nothing new to the table and 3) The thief or whatever class is totally unequipped to do any real battle, which unfortunately is the only type of battle there is.

Furthermore, there aren't that many dragons for a game called dragon age, and the last one you encounter is rather disappointing, especially when compared to a previous one you meet.

Overall, not worth the hype, but then what is? I didn't like it, but I won't say it's a bad game, just not stimulating in any way. Also, the ending sucked and I don't think I've ever seen credits that long in my life.

 

[Gyrefalcon]

Most people, myself included, think you're flat out wrong about the majority of that. I liked the game, and the only real point I see is older graphics. I will give you that, however graphics are the number one thing that most gamers are willing to sacrifice, if it means more strengths elsewhere. Personally, I liked it better then Mass Effect.

Well if I am wrong, then please explain why, rather then just claiming that my points are invalid.
On the point about graphics, I feel that the only people who are willing to sacrifice graphics to such a horrific level are cheap gamers. Such poor graphics does break the immersion of a game and begs the question why did you pay so much for something that is already dated.

Your opinion is that you did not like the game. That is not wrong at all.

I love Dragon Age: Origins. I think the story is excellent and to me the game-play is quite fun. It may be repetitive but I still found it fun. I don't care if the graphics seem dated. The story, good character development, and game-play of a game are more important to me than graphics will ever be. It seems a bit rude to call some gamers cheap just because they don't care about graphics all that much. Some gamers care about good graphics and some gamers don't. It is mainly just differences in opinions.

Exactly that. Why do some people like Dragon Age and some Mass Effect, Kotor, MBA Jam, Grand Turismo, Grand Theft Auto IV, etc? Because they find it appealing.

You may also dislike a summer blockbuster that everyone else liked. I actually liked the graphics in Dragon Age just fine. I was more annoyed about not being able to jump, swim, or fast travel inside sections of the game with long, winding paths that I had already traversed. But the story, characters and voices were great.

Oh, I know what's wrong. You haven't played Culdcept Saga yet have you? Go do that and you will RAVE about this game! Ha ha ha ha ha!

 

[JuryNelson]

No, I made a sarcastic comment to someone, and we've since sorted that. What I didn't do was misuse the verb "to write" blatantly.

I don't mean he didn't put paper to pen. I mean they weren?t his stories. The themes and relationships and characters he explored and employed came from other sources. A lot.
But we can sure stop talking about Shakespeare if you feel like it.

Probably not. It depends on the game. You're an (alleged) English major, you of course understand that you can lump all of any medium together and label it with the same brush... right.

The point is: If you don?t expect originality from Shakespeare, who is often referred to as the ORIGIN OF WESTERN LITERATURE, why do you expect it from video games, an avowed COMMERCIAL INDUSTRY?
If I?m missing the point of Shakespeare by saying he?s unoriginal, are you missing the point of video games for the same reason?

Then you need to work on the clarity of your writing.

I mean your post. YOUR post. You weren?t talking about whether the game did anything interesting with the material. You were just listing the material.

So what you're saying is Videogame writing needs to be pants on head? Sorry, I don't buy that, at all. The same argument was made about comic books about 40-60 years ago, and now we have Watchmen. The same argument was made for films ~110 years ago, and now we have... well, a fuck awful lot.

I?m saying don?t confuse convention with cliché. Who would play a video game that didn?t have a bad guy? Who would play a video game without sidequests? These aren?t things that make them unoriginal, because ?Innovative? games have them, too.

Also: Watchmen is conventional as FUCK. Part of the reason Moore kept saying it was unfilmable. Because it deals so much with the conventions of comics.

I?m not saying it needs to be stupid. I don?t think sidequests are stupid. I don?t think adherence to a given genre makes a work without value, and I kind of liked the story of Dragon Age, all right?

Jesus.

 

[Starke]

No, I made a sarcastic comment to someone, and we've since sorted that. What I didn't do was misuse the verb "to write" blatantly.

I don't mean he didn't put paper to pen. I mean they weren't his stories. The themes and relationships and characters he explored and employed came from other sources. A lot.
But we can sure stop talking about Shakespeare if you feel like it.

Ah, so when you wrote this:

Do any research about Shakespeare and you'll learn that he didn't "Write" any of his plays, in the contemporary sense of the verb. The stories were adaptations, down to a one. But you can still go to college and specialize in Shakespeare.

What you actually meant to say was you failed the class five times because your "research" kept being debunked by the professor? Yeah, that I can understand. Unfortunately, in the real world, we don't get to make the truth up as we go along. It tends to kinda undermine an argument.

Probably not. It depends on the game. You're an (alleged) English major, you of course understand that you can lump all of any medium together and label it with the same brush... right.

The point is: If you don't expect originality from Shakespeare, who is often referred to as the ORIGIN OF WESTERN LITERATURE, why do you expect it from video games, an avowed COMMERCIAL INDUSTRY?
If I'm missing the point of Shakespeare by saying he's unoriginal, are you missing the point of video games for the same reason?

Because as we all know Shakespeare wrote Beowulf... no, wait, that's not right... Look, I'm sorry to say this. If you're college class told you that Shakespeare was the father of all literature, you had a shitty education, and you should see about getting your money back.

Then you need to work on the clarity of your writing.

I mean your post. YOUR post. You weren't talking about whether the game did anything interesting with the material. You were just listing the material.

Again, if you want to write for a living, you're going to need to work on the clarity of your writing.

So what you're saying is Videogame writing needs to be pants on head? Sorry, I don't buy that, at all. The same argument was made about comic books about 40-60 years ago, and now we have Watchmen. The same argument was made for films ~110 years ago, and now we have... well, a fuck awful lot.

I'm saying don't confuse convention with cliche. Who would play a video game that didn't have a bad guy? Who would play a video game without sidequests? These aren't things that make them unoriginal, because "Innovative" games have them, too.

I'm not. Bioware doesn't write conventions, they write cliches. Now, that might be an argument their writers would forward (that what they're doing is building conventions). But, it's like your argument that Shakespeare didn't write anything. It is patently wrong, and repeating it over and over may make them feel better but it doesn't change the fundamental nature of reality to conform to their desires.

EDIT: Looping back for a second, who would play a game without side-quests? Lots of people. Every day. Loads of games like Doom, or CoD4 or HL2 have no side-quests. And some games do lack a clear "bad guy" on this page, at this moment, there are two visible ads for Civ5. Who's the villain in Civ5? Hell, even Far Cry 2 lacks a real villain.

Also: Watchmen is conventional as FUCK. Part of the reason Moore kept saying it was unfilmable. Because it deals so much with the conventions of comics.

And as you said, convention is not necessarily cliche. Now, what Watchmen is is a good old fashioned deconstruction. A format of literary critique that has gone the way of the dodo, for good reason. The point is, it is still doing something interesting with the material, and unless you've consumed a pint of absinthe in the last half hour, even you can't claim it is simply bad writing.

I'm not saying it needs to be stupid. I don?t think sidequests are stupid. I don't think adherence to a given genre makes a work without value, and I kind of liked the story of Dragon Age, all right?

Again, like I said, you seem to have a hard time distinguishing between cliches and conventions, so let me help you. Bioware doesn't use conventions. At least not when it comes to their writings. They use cliches. The difference is, there is nothing presented in Dragon Age Origins that is the slightest bit original or interesting. The game is, quite literally without artistic merit of every kind. It isn't that "it's all been done before", it is that DAO is a direct plagiarism of other sources.

EDIT: For the record, side quests, experience points, crits, shit like that? That is a convention. It's a gameplay convention. And DAO does nothing other than have them. Nothing new, just the same old shit that's been in every RPG since... fuck... D&D 1st edition?

Jesus.

Meh. (Jesus is plagiarized from the Roman god Mithras.)

 

[nightwolf667]

and I kind of liked the story of Dragon Age, all right?

And there goes the last of your credibility. Not that you like bad writing, that's perfectly acceptable for an English major. It's that you defend bad writing. Yeesh.

 

[Kelethor]

Alright, it seems will simply have to agree to dis-agree.

Also, if you actually get to know Morrigan instead of judging her prematurely (As you did) you'd realize she is a scared, frightened woman, whos never really had a friend in her life, and puts on a tough front too hide away from people.

How utterly stereotypical of an "Ice Queen" character. Don't need to revise my statement as it was not a premature judgment. More of a comment on her character archetype. My initial comment stands.

And Allistair is one Emo mofo. Whiny and wussy throughout the entire game. He tries to put a brave face on through cheezy comedy (and fails horribly). He's way more emo than Cloud. (what exactly is emo about Cloud in FF7 anyhow?)

But really, tiny differences aside (one is or isn't an ancient demon god, who gives a shit) DA:O is a LOTR rip off down to its very core. There's even a wandering tribe of xenophobic elves for chrissake!

EDIT: Or did you miss the "I see you!" moments. Of course, there is no ring in DA:O, only Darkspawn Blood, which allows the Archdemon to keep tabs on the Wardens. "I see you!"

They are hacks that people seem to forgive for reasons unknown.

I gave this game way more of a chance than I would normally and it just failed in almost every respect. The only bit of entertainment were the all too short "origin" stories. Why couldn't they just proceed in that fashion instead of making every fucking character have identical stories after the first 45 minutes of gameplay? No, instead we get the identical join the Wardens, survive the slaughter and move from place to place gathering armies... boring, boring, boring.

Alright, it seems will simply have to agree to dis-agree. And Cloud's an Emo because he whines and whines when his girlfriend dies. even though characters have died hundreds of times before, and all have been brought back through an item I can pick up in the shopping mall.

 

[Starke]

Alright, it seems will simply have to agree to dis-agree.

Also, if you actually get to know Morrigan instead of judging her prematurely (As you did) you'd realize she is a scared, frightened woman, whos never really had a friend in her life, and puts on a tough front too hide away from people.

How utterly stereotypical of an "Ice Queen" character. Don't need to revise my statement as it was not a premature judgment. More of a comment on her character archetype. My initial comment stands.

And Allistair is one Emo mofo. Whiny and wussy throughout the entire game. He tries to put a brave face on through cheezy comedy (and fails horribly). He's way more emo than Cloud. (what exactly is emo about Cloud in FF7 anyhow?)

But really, tiny differences aside (one is or isn't an ancient demon god, who gives a shit) DA:O is a LOTR rip off down to its very core. There's even a wandering tribe of xenophobic elves for chrissake!

EDIT: Or did you miss the "I see you!" moments. Of course, there is no ring in DA:O, only Darkspawn Blood, which allows the Archdemon to keep tabs on the Wardens. "I see you!"

They are hacks that people seem to forgive for reasons unknown.

I gave this game way more of a chance than I would normally and it just failed in almost every respect. The only bit of entertainment were the all too short "origin" stories. Why couldn't they just proceed in that fashion instead of making every fucking character have identical stories after the first 45 minutes of gameplay? No, instead we get the identical join the Wardens, survive the slaughter and move from place to place gathering armies... boring, boring, boring.

Alright, it seems will simply have to agree to dis-agree. And Cloud's an Emo because he whines and whines when his girlfriend dies. even though characters have died hundreds of times before, and all have been brought back through an item I can pick up in the shopping mall.

Xander Alistair is an emo brat because you can't get him to stop whining and angsting about his daddy (and all the baggage that brought) his mommy or his widdle sister he never got to meet.

I always thought it was more of a Warhammer ripoff than Lord of the Rings. The Elves alternate between being shat upon by The Empire, some of them have split off and are predatory terroristic fuckers, chaos the blight is raising a massive army that corrupts or kills everything that comes into contact with them, magic comes from the warp the fade, realm of demons and source of chaos the blight, and mages run the risk of being possessed, basically at any time by a daemon demon, which has lead to the rise of a fanatical sect known as the inquisition the templars who hunt down all unauthorized mages and kill them on the spot... ect ect ect.

 

[Kelethor]

Alright, it seems will simply have to agree to dis-agree.

Also, if you actually get to know Morrigan instead of judging her prematurely (As you did) you'd realize she is a scared, frightened woman, whos never really had a friend in her life, and puts on a tough front too hide away from people.

How utterly stereotypical of an "Ice Queen" character. Don't need to revise my statement as it was not a premature judgment. More of a comment on her character archetype. My initial comment stands.

And Allistair is one Emo mofo. Whiny and wussy throughout the entire game. He tries to put a brave face on through cheezy comedy (and fails horribly). He's way more emo than Cloud. (what exactly is emo about Cloud in FF7 anyhow?)

But really, tiny differences aside (one is or isn't an ancient demon god, who gives a shit) DA:O is a LOTR rip off down to its very core. There's even a wandering tribe of xenophobic elves for chrissake!

EDIT: Or did you miss the "I see you!" moments. Of course, there is no ring in DA:O, only Darkspawn Blood, which allows the Archdemon to keep tabs on the Wardens. "I see you!"

They are hacks that people seem to forgive for reasons unknown.

I gave this game way more of a chance than I would normally and it just failed in almost every respect. The only bit of entertainment were the all too short "origin" stories. Why couldn't they just proceed in that fashion instead of making every fucking character have identical stories after the first 45 minutes of gameplay? No, instead we get the identical join the Wardens, survive the slaughter and move from place to place gathering armies... boring, boring, boring.

Alright, it seems will simply have to agree to dis-agree. And Cloud's an Emo because he whines and whines when his girlfriend dies. even though characters have died hundreds of times before, and all have been brought back through an item I can pick up in the shopping mall.

Xander Alistair is an emo brat because you can't get him to stop whining and angsting about his daddy (and all the baggage that brought) his mommy or his widdle sister he never got to meet.

I always thought it was more of a Warhammer ripoff than Lord of the Rings. The Elves alternate between being shat upon by The Empire, some of them have split off and are predatory terroristic fuckers, chaos the blight is raising a massive army that corrupts or kills everything that comes into contact with them, magic comes from the warp the fade, realm of demons and source of chaos the blight, and mages run the risk of being possessed, basically at any time by a daemon demon, which has lead to the rise of a fanatical sect known as the inquisition the templars who hunt down all unauthorized mages and kill them on the spot... ect ect ect.

...Okay, I get it, you made your point, you Don't like the game. The argument ended about a post ago.

 

[MechaBlue]

I mean your post. YOUR post. You weren't talking about whether the game did anything interesting with the material. You were just listing the material.

I thought I was the one who was listing the material.

and I kind of liked the story of Dragon Age, all right?

And there goes the last of your credibility. Not that you like bad writing, that's perfectly acceptable for an English major. It's that you defend bad writing. Yeesh.

Yeah, to take a Stephen King quote too far, there's nothing wrong with liking a literary Big Mac. If the cheese tastes good to you, it tastes good. But trying to pretend it's high cuisine just because it has ingredients in it isn't going to go over well.

 

[Enigmers]

I'm having a lot of fun with it, and finding it very immersive. I can see why you wouldn't like it, though.

 

[Starke]

...Okay, I get it, you made your point, you Don't like the game. The argument ended about a post ago.

I was responding to S69's post. I didn't mean to include you.

EDIT: Nevermind, the thing about Alistair was aimed at you. The rest was for S69.

By the way, just because I don't like it doesn't mean I'm going to stop bashing the everliving fuck out of it for your sake. I'm not being overly condescending towards you, and I'm not aiming to take your teeth out. So, if you have a problem with me posting in this thread, bite me.

 

[Starke]

I mean your post. YOUR post. You weren't talking about whether the game did anything interesting with the material. You were just listing the material.

I thought I was the one who was listing the material.

That's my recollection as well. Nelson's posting style is a kinda funky.

EDIT: well, I did just do a run-through a couple hours ago.

and I kind of liked the story of Dragon Age, all right?

And there goes the last of your credibility. Not that you like bad writing, that's perfectly acceptable for an English major. It's that you defend bad writing. Yeesh.

Yeah, to take a Stephen King quote too far, there's nothing wrong with liking a literary Big Mac. If the cheese tastes good to you, it tastes good. But trying to pretend it's high cuisine just because it has ingredients in it isn't going to go over well.

Omnomnomnomnom

On that subject I enjoy Mass Effect 2, but I'm under no delusions that the writing is horrifically hilariously bad.

 

[TheBlueRabbit]

This thread has reduced the Baby Jesus to tears.

OT: I like the game. That is LITERALLY all I give a damn about. I don't care if I'm the only one in the western hemisphere who did.

A Shakespere debate? Really, guys?

 

[MetallicaRulez0]

I loved (LOVED) my first playthrough of Dragon Age, but after going back to my 2nd character in the Dwarven area, I just couldn't do it again. I find myself straining to understand why I found it entertaining during my first play.

The story is good, the characters are great, the combat is alright I suppose... but wow, the RPG stats and items in this game are so poorly designed. There's virtually no gear progression in the game, and that's one of the primary reasons I like RPGs.

 

[Starke]

This thread has reduced the Baby Jesus to tears.

OT: I like the game. That is LITERALLY all I give a damn about. I don't care if I'm the only one in the western hemisphere who did.

A Shakespere debate? Really, guys?

Yeah, I've got no idea what the fuck brought that on.

Cookie for your enlightened approach to things?

 

[Littlee300]

Mass Effect is (fucking brilliant and) mainstream.

Dragon Age: Origins is (fucking brilliant and) not mainstream.

Right, see the problem is that it's an EA game. EA is the soul-sucking demi-god of pure, un-distilled evil. I'm almost certain they use the souls of orphan children to write data on their disks. Haven't found proof granted, but I know it's there.

Now as for Dragon Age, well the main bit is that it's a small expansion that's been showcased as practically Dragon Age 2 but the fact is, small expansion. It will give you a few hours of decent gameplay and storyline but in the end it's just another wannabe sandbox game that is really as linear as it gets.

Don't get me wrong, I love linear games. You start, you end. Simple. I just can't stand it when they try to say it's not, bugger off and be honest EA, we're on to you.

Words cannot describe how stupid this is. Literally. THERE ARE NO WORDS.

When did anyone ever say Dragon Age wanted to be a fucking sandbox? At least I can see where people are coming from when they pull that argument out for Mafia.

Jesus titty-fucking Christ, I'm actually in awe of you right now.

Dragon Age is largely mainstream, it's a top seller.

Yes, Mass Effect is fucking brilliant and I loved it, I still hate EA. Bioware has a record of doing very decent games and I did not say Dragon Age was crap. It has a rich storyline, lovely scenery and very decent characters. The classes are short and sweet and if you're up for a few hours of gameplay every once in a while, it's a bit of fun

Whaaaat? You don't fucking say your gonna declare way on the game then come up with 5 reaons why it is a good game.