Dragon Age: Origins: Why Put This Shit In?

[Kikosemmek]

Why do some RPG designers feel the need to make you go through fight after fight of the same fucking goddamned enemies? It's one thing to have the occasional generic bandit attack or the similar token soldier dudes here and there, but let me tell you what I'm talking about:

My first suspicions of this crap came up in a part of the game where three whole areas are each dedicated to you fighting off a horde of thugs- a bunch of melee thugs, a bunch of archer thugs, and a thug leader. They were all the same, and the fights were all excrutiatingly mundane.

Then it was all cool till later on I'm in this temple. I check the minimap and notice that this thing is huge, so I think "prepare for some nice atmospheric eye-candy" in hopes of getting sweeping, deep halls of awesomeness with some cool fights. Guess what? I get a labyrinth of the same cultist fight over and over. Every room led to a hallway that led to another room that had the same enemies: some melee cultists, some archer cultists, and some mage cultists. Every now and then there's the ever so cheesy enemy add-on (a wraith popped out of a box, here, omagawd, I didn't see this coming after it happed three times already), but that's it. I timed myself- it was an hour and a half of the same fight, over and over.

When I got to the end of the temple area I thought "okay, it's probably a room after all this bullshit and I can get what I came for and bounce." So then I discover that the final room led to a second temple-dungeon of the same size, with the same trick of repeating battles. I quit the game after four of these and asked myself "who ever thought this would be a good idea? The game could have been fantastic, but they had to throw in some grinders and loads of peppers in your face to please their grind gods."

Wouldn't it just be better if they cut that crap short and let you advance after two or three fights? Making a whole expansive labyrinth without any sense of original exploration? You know a design is horrible when you're thinking "I wish I could noclip my character through to the end and get to the motherfucking point."

It doesn't help that the combat in Dragon Age is only mediocre, but that's not part of this discussion, and it's certainly not a big complaint, either.

I expected more out of Bioware than this. Who had the idea to put it in?

Any thoughts about this? Other Dragon Age owners? Other RPG players who know the feeling?

 

[thiosk]

One word:

Oblivion.

Fight the same five monsters and enemies for DAYS.

 

[geddydisciple]

You purchased an rpg and expected instant gratification? Go buy MW2.

 

[Mirroga]

Ummm, so why play RPG? RPGs are mostly known for their level grinding. I don't think there would ever be an RPG which can generate the possibilities of 1000 types of enemies.

 

[Kikosemmek]

You purchased an rpg and expected instant gratification? Go buy MW2.

I bought Bioware RPG that claimed to be the spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate, and I expected to be that. All good things come to an end, I guess, including great RPG tradition.

I cannot recall one moment in the entire Baldur's Gate series (or Planetscape: Torment, or the Icewind Dale series, for that matter) where they put you through what I described. Dungeons were shorter and fights were varied.

 

[SultanP]

I do not recall that temple leading to another temple of grinding. I do however remember the temple leading to another temple that had a couple of interesting trials, so I don't know which game you played.

 

[captainwillies]

I do not recall that temple leading to another temple of grinding. I do however remember the temple leading to another temple that had a couple of interesting trials, so I don't know which game you played.

he probably went to "Haven" to find andraste's ashes. if that was the very first place he went to i doubt he'd find anything but cultists at such early levels. heck i saved that area seconded till last and i got to fight atleast 10 drake's and was stalked by rogues and assassins which made it varied, atleast for me.

 

[Kikosemmek]

I do not recall that temple leading to another temple of grinding. I do however remember the temple leading to another temple that had a couple of interesting trials, so I don't know which game you played.

I was referring to the temple in Haven, but I'm trying to keep spoilers to a minimum. I still like the game- the storyline is engrossing, but getting it advanced is a boring job and a half.

@captainwillies: party of about level 10ish. Arl Eamon's main branch is what I started following after the game got rolling. I did get two Drakes in one room, but that was it. Every now and then there was an ash wraith, as well, but they were all very predictable. But yeah, it was just cultist after cultist after cultist. It got very boring.

 

[Enzeru92]

Frankly that has been the same formula for almost any rpg games across the world i don't see why complain now

 

[Bat Vader]

Snip

I myself liked all the fighting. It was what immersed me in the game. It made me feel like I was fighting a large cult or army. The game is fantastic. Plus, this was the same type of fighting that was used in the KOTOR series where you had to battle enemies spread across different rooms.

Although, this more or less boils down to differences of opinions what people want in a game.

 

[Samurai Goomba]

You purchased an rpg and expected instant gratification? Go buy MW2.

Now, now. There are RPGs and then there are RPGs. Breath of Fire: Dragon Quarter is a survival RPG where pretty much every enemy in the entire game appears ONCE and NEVER respawns. You're always working forwards and hardly ever revisiting the same places. The battle system is fast, fluid and strategic, but also legitimately difficult to master.

Granted, it's rather unique in the genre, but there are other RPGs which also eschew conventional RPG design decisions.

 

[Uilleand]

I liked the smaller battles that gave me an opportunity to try out new tactics/spell combos so that when it came to an omg-getting-my-ass-kicked scenario, I had some idea of how to proceed...

 

[SultanP]

I was referring to the temple in Haven, but I'm trying to keep spoilers to a minimum. I still like the game- the storyline is engrossing, but getting it advanced is a boring job and a half.

Oh, well, I wouldn't really say the first place counts as it's really small and straight ahead. That being said it really doesn't bother me all that much. I spend a lot of time playing my character, levelling him up. And I enjoy kicking ass with him. I agree that sometimes the grind get a little annoying, but I also feel that without it, it would get a bit dull. I love the story too, but I think it needs the fighting to make it fun.

 

[Spectrum_Prez]

I think this grind problem is really a product of the largely linear nature of Dragon Age: Origins and some other Bioware games. In an RPG, you do need a certain amount of grind in order to create XP and level up. The other way to do it is have xp doled out solely on a quest-based basis (VtM:B) which can also work fine, but few games do it. The question, then, becomes how to hide the grind as much as possible and to make bashing tonnes of enemies as painless as possible. In a largely linear game like DA:O, long dungeon crawls become a necessity because how else are they going to dole out that delicious delicious xp? In more open games like the ones Bethesda makes, for example, they can just spawn mobs all over the world which you bump into going about your business from point A to B. That system has its own weaknesses and strengths too though.

I certainly feel your pain OP, but if it's really bugging you that much, maybe its time to swap to an adventure game that's all story and no combat. I agree, DA:O's combat isn't stellar (personally I preferred Mass Effect's, but that's another can of worms) and it can be quite time consuming.

 

[Omega NZ]

You purchased an rpg and expected instant gratification? Go buy MW2.

Now, now. There are RPGs and then there are RPGs. Breath of Fire: Dragon Quarter is a survival RPG where pretty much every enemy in the entire game appears ONCE and NEVER respawns. You're always working forwards and hardly ever revisiting the same places. The battle system is fast, fluid and strategic, but also legitimately difficult to master.

Granted, it's rather unique in the genre, but there are other RPGs which also eschew conventional RPG design decisions.

Finally! Someone metioned this gem! These are the type of RPG's I prefer, level grinding in my opinion should be slightly more optional, instead of a nessacity to progress. I haven't played Dragon Age yet, but are the repeative battles bad enough to ruin it? Also, got any other recommendations for RPG's simialar to Breath of Fire? (sorry slightly off topic)

Also, at the OP, I'm guessing you will be like me and not like MMORPG's?

 

[Evelynthefate]

The game has an entertaining story, though perhaps a bit overdone and occasionally bland, but enough to keep me interested. Even the character interactions had me giggling at some parts, at least when I wasn't agonizing over how stupid the main character is...
As far as the combat, I entirely agree that the enemy grind is a bit tedious. I personally love combat and enjoy fighting hordes of enemies. I felt the fights were too infrequent for such a vast number of enemy forces, and the fights were too tedious. Larger and more intense (and more thought challenging) battles would immerse the players more, and larger gaps between fights might allow the players to appreciate the scenery a bit more. Mostly in my opinion the combat system wasn't quite right, but I personally prefer more action oriented fighting, like someone said about Mass Effects combat.
My only other issue is that I've noticed the difficulty scale is entirely inconsistent, with enemies on medium difficulty while at low level feeling next to impossible, yet at higher levels they would be embarassingly easy. It's something I noticed in mass effect, but haven't played enough of Dragon Age to see if it also shares this.

 

[Gestapo Hunter]

Enchantments?

 

[MiracleOfSound]

Ummm, so why play RPG? RPGs are mostly known for their level grinding. I don't think there would ever be an RPG which can generate the possibilities of 1000 types of enemies.

Hmm well with the Borderlands gun-creating engine, it could be very possible to have a game that has randomly generated baddies.

That would be totally awesome.

 

[Spectrum_Prez]

Ummm, so why play RPG? RPGs are mostly known for their level grinding. I don't think there would ever be an RPG which can generate the possibilities of 1000 types of enemies.

Hmm well with the Borderlands gun-creating engine, it could be very possible to have a game that has randomly generated baddies.

That would be totally awesome.

Like Martigen's Monstre Mod (MMM) for Fallout 3? Like, different variants of certain models or completely different creations?

Personally, I think they should work on enemy generation scripts that can churn out random unique encounters with AI script-based instances. In a sense, a script that generates heavily-script based scenarios randomly - is this impossible?

 

[Kinghoza]

Thats RPG for ya mate.