DRAGON BALL SUPER

[Naldan]

So, 4 episodes in.

Nothing happened. The character developement is barely visible, if that is what they're going for. If it were about establishing who Beerus is, then he had to share too much screen time with gooftroop Goten & Trunks. I like both, but get a fucking balance.

What happened? 4 episodes in, we got:

- There is a powerful god of destruction in company with a blue guy who can do magic stuff
- There is a Super Saiya Jin God, maybe. (Of course, there is.)
- Mr. Satan gave Goku a lot of money.

Whoopdiedo. This is the beginning of a series. And there is no school drama, so it might get a hard time in modern Japan. We got.

- no action
- few interesting plot points
- a lot of "fun time" shared with action. And there is no action, remember.
- weird shifting drawing styles. The outlines shift from thick to thin, thick, thin. Thick again. Now, it's... still thick. THIN! Normally, that is related to the comedic effect one aims for to correspond to the active scene. But here, it's all over the place.

So, the best thing in my opinion was Vegeta fulfilling his promise to Trunks. But it feels like they sucked out character from Vegeta, what little there was, and filled it with even more "HMPF!". That he does keep his promise in itself is awesome enough. But it feels like he has become a single facette. Jesus, how could you accomplish that? There isn't that much character to begin with and sucking out that what made him (assumingly) relatable for people is really a feat. He had many more monologues in the past. Why doing that?

Anyway, all I see on the Internet is overhype. And Dragon Ball is one of the big three franchises I absolutely adore. I don't think that I'm alone with my concerns. But all those YouTubers are cheering the fuck out of the series. I get it, it's finally something new, but calm your tits... I liked Kami to Kami. I was really into it. And they-- By the way, these are the same people who hyped the SHIT out of Fukkatsu no F, the movie with an interesting synopsis but no, zero, nill, nada absolut keinen, nicht die Bohne, sense for climax. No climax. I'm sorry if I've spoiled it now, but there is almost no climax. And little fighting action. The secondary cast did indeed get a bit time to shine, but that's the highlight of the movie. If you count a transformation by both parties involved, with zero explanation, build-up, ANYTHING connected to it, then there are maybe three highlights.

So, these people hype the shit out of anything related to Dragon Ball. It's not just that there are fanboys, but these are YouTubers who do really interesting stuff otherwise, like theory stuff, speculation and whatnot. But... What is it? Are they really that blind? Or do they fear the backlash of the fanboy community and losing their subscribers?

I'm disappoint.

 

[Smooth Operator]

Well I didn't even start watching once reading the synopsis: "This time we focus more on the personal and family life."
Dragon Ball without apocalyptic fights... that is the most hilariously awful idea anyone has ever had in the history of anime.

I am surprised however they didn't fully raise the stakes and make everything happen within a highschool setting, with lots of tentacles.

 

[Scarim Coral]

Maybe it cos some of those Youtubers has seen the films (hence their hype for it?) and last time I've read Super is just the film but made into episodic form?

Also if you think Vegata is loosing his cool, wait til they make that "scene" into the episode!

 

[ItouKaiji]

At the pace they're going "that scene" will be stretched out into an entire episode.

I gave the first two episodes a bit of a pass because DB anime has always been slow paced, but now it's been four episodes and nothing has happen while the animation and art have both gone to shit. The first episode looked decent with a little bit of budget behind it but the 4th episode was full of hilariously obvious reused shots and like you mentioned the 4th episode had that atrocious line work.

It's been pretty bad so far. I didn't like Battle of Gods to begin with, but if I'd still recommend watching that over Super. At the pace they're going Battle of Gods is going to take 12-13 episodes to tell the same story as a movie.

 

[MiskWisk]

Honestly, the new Dragon Ball stuff I just don't like. I do not see the appeal of the new movies or this new series. Maybe I'm jumping the gun and the series is a slow starter but I guess I'll just come out and state my heretical opinion:

[HEADING=1]GT WAS BETTER![/HEADING]​

[sub][sub]Barring about 90% of the first arc... pretty much everything until they get back to Earth actually[/sub][/sub]​

Well, now that that is done, I'mma go hang out in the Eye of Terror. I hear Slaanesh is a pretty cool guy.

 

[sageoftruth]

At the pace they're going "that scene" will be stretched out into an entire episode.

I gave the first two episodes a bit of a pass because DB anime has always been slow paced, but now it's been four episodes and nothing has happen while the animation and art have both gone to shit. The first episode looked decent with a little bit of budget behind it but the 4th episode was full of hilariously obvious reused shots and like you mentioned the 4th episode had that atrocious line work.

It's been pretty bad so far. I didn't like Battle of Gods to begin with, but if I'd still recommend watching that over Super. At the pace they're going Battle of Gods is going to take 12-13 episodes to tell the same story as a movie.

Akira Toriyama always has loved those dramatic pauses. Even back in the original Dragon Ball, about 70% of each martial arts tournament was comprised of guys staring each other down.

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

"No character development"? 4 episodes in? Dragon Ball? Why are you so surprised?

 

[Soviet Heavy]

So if Beerus is in it, does that mean it's a sequel to Battle of the Gods, or a tv adaptation of it?

 

[RJ 17]

So if Beerus is in it, does that mean it's a sequel to Battle of the Gods, or a tv adaptation of it?

The latter, I haven't seen the new show yet but from what I'm told the first two sagas are going to be Battle of the Gods stretched into a story arc followed by Resurrection of F stretched into a story arc.

Obviously since they're taking the movies and turning them into sagas, the plot won't be identical, but it'll be close (I'd imagine).

 

[ArcaneGamer]

I'm going to give this show a chance. Give it...10 or 20 episodes.

 

[vallorn]

I've been avoiding it since I always tend to binge watch anime to catch up. Still, it's disheartening to hear that so much of the show has kind of been thrown out. I can appreciate the creators wanting to do something new but it sounds kind of like a hollow mockery of Dragonball that is just using the name and characters for publicity.

Well, now that that is done, I'mma go hang out in the Eye of Terror. I hear Slaanesh is a pretty cool guy.

Just avoid the Sigmarine sector where some namby pamby elf got used to plothole The Princ(sess) Of Excess into not existing in Warhammer Fantasy anymore.

Either way, Tzeentch throws better D&D nights, you haven't lived till you've tried one of his famous "Flaming, Changing Cocktails" (It's multicoloured alchohol and syrup which is permanently on fire)

 

[Pseudonym]

So, 4 episodes in.

Nothing happened. The character developement is barely visible, if that is what they're going for.

I'm not exactly the biggest dragon ball fan so I might have a slightly different perspective on this than most people. For one, Dragon ball has always had a hilariously slow pace. I remember watching several episodes in a row and counting the amounts of episodes that reused the same shot of Goku's face. Four episodes of dragon ball can mean that in the story, 3 minutes have passed, a single relevant punch has been landed and some charactars have talked about. Four episodes is nothing. If you could stomach the slow pace and bizarre plot and setting of dragon ball before, you may need to be more patient.

 

[CaptainMarvelous]

It's taking a while, this is true. Going by the titles, episode 5 is Goku Vs Beerus Round 1 so we're going to be looking at... I dunno, I wanna say 15 episodes for the Battle of Gods thing. Afterwards they can fill in the gaps between Battle of Gods and Resurrection of F so it won't be QUITE so irreverent. We did not need a Pilaf episode. We flatout did not need it.

The real problem I have is... you can just watch Battle of Gods. So far, it's the better cut of this story-arc.

 

[Canadamus Prime]

I've not seen it yet. I'm waiting till it gets localized as I can't stand subtitles or some of the Japanese voices. However as soon as I heard about these new movies and this new series I was immediately skeptical. I think even GT took the franchise beyond the point where it should've ended. They already had the characters exceeding the power of, what I had assumed, were the Dragon Ball Universe's gods (the Kais), but now they've introduced Beerus who actually has the title of "God" which throws that out the window. And incidentally Battle of Gods was actually pretty underwhelming as far as Dragon Ball Z movies go.
You know, Dragon Ball first started as a very loose adaptation of Journey to the West, now it's become something approaching Gurran Laugen levels of ridiculousness and I don't think I can buy into it anymore.

 

[Naldan]

OK, roundup: I've watched both, Battle of Gods and Resurrection of F.

Battle of Gods was pretty good. It was way better than Resurrection of F. Resurrection of F is a whole other can of worms. All I want to say without spoiling anything, is that the climax is a wreck. It has a decent build-up and a specific twist near the final twist (yeah), that makes it a, sorry, fuckfest. OK, MINOR SPOILERS: If you have any interest in the movie, you might know by now that Vegeta finally gets his blow on Frieza, yadayada. The thing is: He doesn't. Goku gets knocked out, Vegeta steps in, deals I think 5 hits and Frieza pulls out an ace. That is indeed technically the final action scene. Holy shit, how could you abort something so obviously in story telling? It has a climax beyond anything a Broly hater could imagine. Oh boy, the 8th movie at least had constant good action from mid-part onward with an antagonist who was a major dick. Anyway, I've said a lot of things about Resurrection of F at other places on the internet. Don't know if you want to hear it.

So, why do am I heavily convinced that Super is way inferior to Z, if they continue this way:

First, two points:

- I've barely watched Dragon Ball. Super is very, very similar to Dragon Ball, its pacing, its balance, its humour, by the way. Maybe that's something for you.
- I've never even touched GT besides maybe 5 episodes. Again, it feels very similar to Super, even though I have to say that the humour is more my taste in Super.
- I've watched major points of lore of both of these shows, including battles and encounters. Made it abridged for me. Yes, you're all right: Dragon Ball in general is slow as fuck. I was never disagreeing with that.

So, maybe let's rephrase my statement and the TL;DR version of my opinion:

DBZ is the only good anime iteration of Dragon Ball.

I've watched all movies. I think that's because they are way easier to digest. You have a certain pacing, because they have a tight screen time to fill with normally a huge budget. That pays off, most of the time. Again, exactly that didn't happen with Resurrection of F. So, all movies in my opinion are easy to enjoy and often have good action in it, especially if you're already a giddy fanboy of DBZ like myself.

--- Now fanboy spergism with some good points, imo ---

But, why is DBZ good despite the god awful pacing? It had a jump start, thanks to the ongoing manga which seemingly transitioned in Goku's age. The Saiyan saga was awesome for the start of a series. People got killed, aliens landed on earth and were, in comparison to Piccolo JR of the previous saga *real* dicks. Well, mainly Radditz at this time. He was a fucking asshole, kidnapping Gohan I think in episode 3 and ordering Goku, who is revealed to be an alien and Radditz to be his brother, to kill a lot of people. That was something, well, advanced in the art of being a major dick not existent in the previous sagas. Goku even gets fucking killed, and it wasn't even out of the world that Gohan gets his face kicked in, given that it were the late 80's / early 90's age of "edginess" and that Radditz had graduated in the school of shitlords with a diploma. And Goku got killed in the most awesome way, by being a supreme naive fool and makankosappo.

Then came Vegeta and Nappa and those guys were bloated with tension. Holy shit, watch the fight against Nappa if you need a reminder. Tien Shinhan had a fight made of gold for that day and age. That tension. And the Frieza saga stands for itself, in my opinion. Anyway, I don't think I have to tell you the whole story.

---

What I'm trying to say is that the pacing is shit in Super. It's really shit. Like it was in GT, for what I know and have heard of from other people. And supposedly, Super is more a brainchild of Toriyama than GT ever was. And honestly, you could feel that in Battle of Gods. That is a really good movie without the "edginess". And even Fukkatsu no F was, well, OK, except for the whole fucking climax. There is no tension, no killing, no threat of major pain (which was very well a thing in DBZ, even in the "AAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRGHHHHHH!!" episodes people make fun of) which isn't that easy to whish away with the Dragon Balls. Remember when Frieza humilated the shit out of Vegeta? Yeah, this will never happen again. And they most likely will recycle the synopsis of Resurrection of F. But I fear instead of an annoying Chi Chi or Bulma who whine at least about anyone getting their face kicked in, we will instead see good troop Goten & Trunks (who I like, but not if they make up about SIXTY PERCENT OF THE SERIES SO FAR, THAT MEANS OF ALL FOUR AIRED EPISODES) goofing around *a lot*, and instead nobody will die. Yes, I know that it's silly if you can revive every year anybody, but the drama, pain, tension and stakes could increase instead of decrease.

I don't know. Maybe it's because GT isn't the odd sheep anymore. Maybe it's because the movie(s) were really promising. The most probable answer is a combination of both.

---

By the way, not all anime is that shitty. Instead of what I've feared, JoJo turned out really good, even the Jotaro arc or whatever it's "officially" called. Yes, they censored banalaties with The Darkness?, but it was pretty close to the manga. More than the 90's OVA, which I still prefer. Maybe I'm a child of "edginess".

 

[Naldan]

I've not seen it yet. I'm waiting till it gets localized as I can't stand subtitles or some of the Japanese voices. However as soon as I heard about these new movies and this new series I was immediately skeptical. I think even GT took the franchise beyond the point where it should've ended. They already had the characters exceeding the power of, what I had assumed, were the Dragon Ball Universe's gods (the Kais), but now they've introduced Beerus who actually has the title of "God" which throws that out the window. And incidentally Battle of Gods was actually pretty underwhelming as far as Dragon Ball Z movies go.
You know, Dragon Ball first started as a very loose adaptation of Journey to the West, now it's become something approaching Gurran Laugen levels of ridiculousness and I don't think I can buy into it anymore.

The synopsis isn't even bad. Toriyama pulled some good excuses out of his ass (or those asses who are anonymous) on why Beerus was unknown and unspoken of so far. Battle of Gods even is a movie I would rank among my top 3 anime movies, with the fanboy glasses on of course. But honestly, try it. Beerus is a sympathic dick, which is really good reflected in his character in my opinion.

Exactly that is also what I think is a major problem with Super. Minor spoilers of the first two episodes: Beerus is in it, since they recycle the movie with a major addition and basically a new arc-ending or twist not included in the movie. Basically another villain. But Beerus himself is a God of Destruction. So, you have this guy who is super, extremely powerful. And you have "his sidekick" (so to speak), a really flamboyant, nice guy. I really like both characters. But both a presented as villains. On paper; rightfully so! Both seem to be nearly hated and definitely feared among everyone who knows about them.

But both are really nice guys. I mean it, they are really sympathic, and that is even intentionally. They are real dicks, but more in a "chaotic neutral" kinda way. And this is established, in my opinion, in the first two episodes. These are not hyper assholes like Radditz. These are weird, powerful and strange guys, but you could imagine everybody being friends with them. So what is the point in them at the same time filling the role of being the major threat looming at the horizon? Really, there is none. There is, and you can see this left and right if you've seen ANY promo material of the series, another threat. But if you've seen even one picture, you will be assured that even that villain seems not to be that indifferent to Beerus... And Beerus and Whis have too much sympathic traits to have any resemblence in being any horrific threat. They are good characters, but as a threat... No. And the new villain is telling that he will be no different. Yes, I can say that just by looking at him. He as well has a "sidekick", and that points even more to being pretty much just a rival rather than an asshole.

Call me a doofus if I'm wrong when they're introduced. But normally and to my dipleasure, I'm -really- good at predicting storylines after a brief dive.