Dragon Con Co-Founder Pleads Guilty to Child Molestation Charges

[Beffudled Sheep_v1legacy]

Sensationary titles strikes again.
Sexual abuse of teenagers is not child molestation because by definition teenagers are not children.

In the US a person is considered a child until they're 18 I believe. At least as they are in the eyes of the law.

 

[Dragonbums]

The dude even fits the bill of a stereotypical child molester.


Christ.

At first though I was hoping that Dragon Con co-founder= Dragoneer.

I hate that guy. So does most of the furry community.

The dude should of been put in jail after he was exposed to helping a convicted Zoophiliac get away from the cops. (among other things)

 

[Eri]

Sensationary titles strikes again.
Sexual abuse of teenagers is not child molestation because by definition teenagers are not children.

This reminds me of people who scream pedophile for some guy liking 13 year old girls. Newsflash- That's not what a pedo does.

 

[faefrost]

While I hate to be stereotypical, the only way this guy would like more like popular culture's idea of a child molester was if he was wearing a pedobear t-shirt. I guess maybe he only grew the wild beard after he'd been caught. Hopefully the victims can get some closure now.

Oh no. If anything he has gotten better groomed since he was arrested. His beard is actually much neater and more trimmed now. A few years ago he looked like Peter Jackson's less debonair brother.

Of course most of the footage of him back then was of him partying in hotel rooms full of pre teen and adolescent boys ala Michael Jackson... just saying.

 

[Neta]

Did he deliberately make himself up to look like a stereotypical "child molester" or something?

 

[Elvaril]

The boycott really had almost nothing to do with Dragon Con buying out Kramer's shares. They had been trying to do this for years, but Kramer kept preventing it through a series of legal maneuvers. Eventually they managed to buy him out by dissolving and reforming the company which they could not do until recently due to the lawsuits that Kramer had against Dragon*Con. The boycott was a publicity stunt by an author who had a new book coming out. D*C's numbers would have been almost completed unaffected by it.

Also, Kramer only claims to need the use of a wheelchair and oxygen tank. The person who reported him to the police that finally got him arrested this final time noted that he had been climbing up and down hills all day carrying heavy equipment with neither wheelchair or oxygen tank in sight.

 

[Therumancer]

Wow! My wife's an Attorney and we got into an argument over the Alford plea years ago. I had forgotten about it until just now. I think it boils down to "I, as the defendant, will stick to my guns that I am not guilty, but also concede that you have enough evidence to more than likely prove that I am guilty. But since I'm maintaining my innocence, while entering a guilty plea no less, I am exempt from certain penalties that would have come about had an entered a regular guilty plea."

That's my understanding of it. As I said, it's been a while since I discussed it, and conversation became heated because it turned into me screaming "that is bullshit! Someone can say "yeah, I'm guilty, but admitting it in a way that lessens/limits how much you can prosecute me." I understand it is used by people who didn't necessarily know they committed a crime: say for example, someone that was heavily intoxicated, but it is also used by scumbags lighten their sentence.

There are certain crimes that I have sympathy for. This is definitely not one of them.

That's a pretty fair description of it. I tend to summarize an Alford Plea as "I'm innocent, but can't beat the prosecutor's case".

I think it's inherently a pretty reasonable thing given how our legal system works, since it is very possible for an innocent man to not be able to beat a case, especially when politics get involved, or he might simply not have the resources or ability to put up a decent fight. The system tries to be weighted heavily towards the defendant, but at the end of the day consider that the prosecution has the resources of the state behind them, and once they decide to take a trial to court they then have a vested interest in seeing the case concluded in their favor, as it can affect their record and career if they fight a case and fail. Indeed one of the biggest causes of corruption at the state level comes from situations where a prosecutor might withhold evidence, hamper investigations, and play various bureaucratic games in order to convict someone they know is innocent simply so their career doesn't suffer as a result.

While I suppose it might vary state from state, maintaining your innocence actually does leave you more options if you can somehow hire an investigator or convince someone to look into things for you (like say police who weren't entirely convinced). This is exaggerated in the movies, but the bottom line is that if you say your guilty it can be a lore more difficult to re-open a case based on new evidence than if you maintained your innocence.

That's not to say that this can't be abused, but I think the reasons for it existing are sound, and I'm pretty pro-authorities.

 

[Therumancer]

I find it odd that we are suddenly getting a huge surge of these, Lost Prophets Singer, some Northen Irish bloke and a few other BBC people all came out and got arrested.

Aye, I think there is something of a crack down going on right now. Whether that will continue or not remains to be seen. I'd normally suspect there being some political reasons behind it, but it's a little too international for that, and honestly while the "Lost Prophets" guy would have made the news no matter what (sort of like "Gary Glitter") I think what's standing out is the amount of media attention when the authorities try and keep this stuff fairly quiet. For example the "Dragon Con" guy isn't normally the kind of "celebrity" that would have gotten much attention, even enough o hit the radar on "The Escapist" even if geek culture is it's area of interest. This kind of thing is usually kept fairly quiet.

 

[Therumancer]

While I hate to be stereotypical, the only way this guy would like more like popular culture's idea of a child molester was if he was wearing a pedobear t-shirt. I guess maybe he only grew the wild beard after he'd been caught. Hopefully the victims can get some closure now.

Oh no. If anything he has gotten better groomed since he was arrested. His beard is actually much neater and more trimmed now. A few years ago he looked like Peter Jackson's less debonair brother.

Of course most of the footage of him back then was of him partying in hotel rooms full of pre teen and adolescent boys ala Michael Jackson... just saying.

Well, to be fair that kind of scene wasn't inherently suspicious for the kind of environment it was, as you expect lots of kids to show up for science fiction and fantasy cons, gaming events, etc... and of course the parents to let them wander around. As one of the organizers of something like this he'd also be viewed as implicitly safe, especially if there were other kids around. In short the perfect environment for a child molester to flourish, and be able to both duck suspicion, and present a degree of plausible deniability and claims of defamation of character given the occasionally political environment if questioned.

That said, I'm actually a bit surprised we haven't heard more about this kind of thing on the con/gaming circuit, probably because when it's happened it's been kept under the radar. I say this because there are some really strange people that show up at cons. Truthfully I always figured if we ran into this kind of a story it wasn't going to be a con organizer so much as a game gypsy, though I guess they haven't been around the same way for a while (but then again I don't do PnP RPGs much anymore, never mind look for even tiny, local cons).

A game gypsy was typically a mooching nerdy drifter who hangs out at game stores or travels from con to con, and by this I don't mean just major ones (we for example had local Gamefests around here sponsored by The Citadel gaming store, I only went a few times though... I loved them to an insane degree as a kid). Typically carrying a milk crate or duffel bag full of mixed books for various games, and typically one or two decks for CCGs. Where he differs from a general attendee or customer is that he's looking for a group to game with, and indeed he DOES game, but typically he wants to find adult gamers that will let him go home with them to game so he can crash on their couch and mooch free grub until his welcome wears out. Oftentimes making a circuit from gaming group to gaming group and con to con, largely motivated by where he can get a meal while gaming or a couch to sleep on. Typically pretty harmless, but I always had it in the back of my mind one day we might hear about one of these guys being a child molester, or killing/robbing people in
their sleep. It differs from similar collegiate/student behavior (better than sleeping in the dorm, or not wanting to go home) usually due to the distance travelled.

At any rate, I'm glad they got the guy, but at the same time I'm appalled it took 13 years no matter what bureaucratic excuses there are, especially seeing as he apparently managed to claim 3 victims that we know of.

The only thing I can think of being worse for the con scene is if someone like Ed Greenwood, or David "Zeb" Cook was caught molesting someone given how both seemed to be lynchpins of gaming cons for a long time (though I never attended one where either was present).

 

[Strazdas]

Sensationary titles strikes again.
Sexual abuse of teenagers is not child molestation because by definition teenagers are not children.

This reminds me of people who scream pedophile for some guy liking 13 year old girls. Newsflash- That's not what a pedo does.

Tell that to pretty much every single news outlet. sadly pedo sounds much more menecing that "a guy that follows his biology".

Sensationary titles strikes again.
Sexual abuse of teenagers is not child molestation because by definition teenagers are not children.

In the US a person is considered a child until they're 18 I believe. At least as they are in the eyes of the law.

No. In the eyes of law they are underage people. Law does not classify "children". Thats why you will never see a case for "pedofilia", but rather for sexual assault of underage victims.

 

[Elijah Newton]

Wow! My wife's an Attorney and we got into an argument over the Alford plea years ago. I had forgotten about it until just now. I think it boils down to "I, as the defendant, will stick to my guns that I am not guilty, but also concede that you have enough evidence to more than likely prove that I am guilty. But since I'm maintaining my innocence, while entering a guilty plea no less, I am exempt from certain penalties that would have come about had an entered a regular guilty plea."

That's my understanding of it.

Fascinating. Thank you for sharing this elaboration - I was wondering about it and you saved me a trip to Wikipedia to learn about Alford pleas!

I'm not a lawyer nor do I play on one tv, but it seems odd this doesn't come up more. I dig the intoxication reference for how it could be reasonably applied but honestly can't suss out how it fits here.

 

[EHKOS]

Very creepy little hairy dude. I'm kind of appalled that child molestation only garners "house arrest"? I suspect that the Fulton County DA will have an election challenge over that decision alone.

He got the shit kicked out of him in jail and supposedly broke his back. Which is the reason for the house arrest

Say what you want about prison, they know how to take care of child abusers.

OT: That's...weird. You would think they would just put him in PC/Solitary or something instead, but oh well. At least his health is punishing him too.

 

[barbzilla]

Very creepy little hairy dude. I'm kind of appalled that child molestation only garners "house arrest"? I suspect that the Fulton County DA will have an election challenge over that decision alone.

I think it has more to do with his health condition, it costs a small fortune to give inmates constant medical treatment, meanwhile they can put him on house arrest and he will have to continue paying for his own medical treatments.

OT: This should have been addressed years ago, 11 years in litigation is way too long.

 

[Albino Boo]

Very creepy little hairy dude. I'm kind of appalled that child molestation only garners "house arrest"? I suspect that the Fulton County DA will have an election challenge over that decision alone.

He got the shit kicked out of him in jail and supposedly broke his back. Which is the reason for the house arrest

Say what you want about prison, they know how to take care of child abusers.

OT: That's...weird. You would think they would just put him in PC/Solitary or something instead, but oh well. At least his health is punishing him too.

The problem stems from the fact his lawyers have argued that he is not well enough to stand trial. He was only released on house arrest as a temporary measure before trial. His yearly income from dragoncon has enabled him to stretch out that for 11 years. It is not a coincidence that the guilty plea came 2 years after he was cut out of dragoncon.

 

[JoJo]

Very creepy little hairy dude. I'm kind of appalled that child molestation only garners "house arrest"? I suspect that the Fulton County DA will have an election challenge over that decision alone.

He got the shit kicked out of him in jail and supposedly broke his back. Which is the reason for the house arrest

Say what you want about prison, they know how to take care of child abusers.

Indeed, although somewhat disturbingly the attack happened before he was convicted, so for all his attackers knew he could have been an innocent man falsely accused. No doubt they wouldn't care though, they were probably put in themselves for crimes just as heinous.

 

[ZippyDSMlee]

Been there once, a shame he tarnished the name hopefully he has little to do with the operations of the organization and it can move on without him.

 

[balfore]

Sensationary titles strikes again.
Sexual abuse of teenagers is not child molestation because by definition teenagers are not children.

The U.S. law defines minors as people under the age of majority in the U.S. that's 18. Once you reach the age of majority you go from childhood to adulthood. So yes, they are children and it is definitely molestation.

 

[Strazdas]

Sensationary titles strikes again.
Sexual abuse of teenagers is not child molestation because by definition teenagers are not children.

The U.S. law defines minors as people under the age of majority in the U.S. that's 18. Once you reach the age of majority you go from childhood to adulthood. So yes, they are children and it is definitely molestation.

You are mixing Minors (legal definition) with children (social definition)

 

[balfore]

Sensationary titles strikes again.
Sexual abuse of teenagers is not child molestation because by definition teenagers are not children.

The U.S. law defines minors as people under the age of majority in the U.S. that's 18. Once you reach the age of majority you go from childhood to adulthood. So yes, they are children and it is definitely molestation.

You are mixing Minors (legal definition) with children (social definition)

But the title is referring to his charges which are of legal nature. So referring to a teenager as a child is appropriate in the title and all matters of the crime he has committed.