Dragonball Z: Just as bad as GT?

[Shadowstar38]

This is something I've considered for awhile.

Now, what's the first rule of Dragonball? We do not discuss the pile of ass that is GT

Spoiler: although SS4 was pretty awesome

Everyone has gone as far as to say this thing is not even canon. General consensus is the series went down hill from here. Other people said that Dragonball started to suck as far back as the Majin Buu saga.

But you know what really made this manga and show take a nosedive? Dragonball Z. Yeah, I know. Weird seeing as how this was like my favorite show of all time growing up. But in retrospect it actually made things worse.

Here is just a sample of the Original Dragonball

Spoiler: skip to 1:05

Did you see that? Actual fighting that has some resemblance to martial arts. Dragonball pretty much had

-Excellent fight scenes
-Spot on comedy
-Interesting and useful side characters
-varied enemies from martial artists in a ring, to dinosaurs, to an organized military. And then later on mercs and demons.

And then it all got fucked over when the sayians arrived.

Spoiler: This ***** right here

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/12/124972/2465673-raditz.jpg[/spoiler]

Now suddenly Goku didnt beat all of his opponents because of all the training and work he put in, but because he was just geneticly superior to all of the lowly humans. Also, now we have...

-Tototally underpowered and useless side characters
-Teleporting around and spamming death beams to win a fight
-Standing around powering up for an hour
-taking 20 episodes to kill one guy

DB to DBZ is like going from Borderland 2 to Call of Duty. It's a bunch of flash with all the substance and personality taken out. So a major step down. Basically, Z is better than GT, but only by a hair.

Well, now that my little rant is over, tell me what you think. Do you think Z I'm totally wrong about Z? When did the series start to loose it's shit? Why the fuck do you hate GT so much? Answering any of these will do.

 

[ZehMadScientist]

That's a bit hard for me to judge, as I watched the original Dragonball after Dragonball Z.

If you analyze it, DBZ is a pile of crap, with entire episodes spent on just screaming and recaps. It's the nostalgia factor that makes me remember it as the most friggin' awesome thing ever. Next to Pokemon, DBZ was my childhood.

Well, now that my little rant is over, tell me what you think. Do you think Z I'm totally wrong about Z? When did the series start to loose it's shit? Why the fuck do you hate GT so much? Answering any of these will do.

The whole idea of 'GT not being Canon' is because it wasn't written by the original manga artist Akira Toriyama. GT was, for the most part, for the cash money flow.

I greatly enjoyed Dragonball for the very reasons you stated. DBZ is all nostalgia and GT was just straight up horrible..

 

[MopBox]

If you have thoughts about Dragon Ball Z that are any deeper than 'Get him Goku!!!" You're already doing it wrong.

 

[Judgment90]

I actually liked GT.

And I don't find DBZ bad by any means, if anything, it is just SEVERELY overplayed.

 

[Shinsei-J]

While I agree with most of your points I don't believe alot those points are as bad as you make them out to be.

-Tototally underpowered and useless side characters
-Teleporting around and spamming death beams to win a fight
-Standing around powering up for an hour
-taking 20 episodes to kill one guy

-Your first point I can partly agree with but it wasn't a bad thing until the Buu saga, it was always Goku's story in the first place.
-The second is a curse to the whole shounen genre, if you keep having to one-up your enemy's you're going to hit a point where shit gets ridiculous but once again I never found this jarring until the Buu saga (Though I did missed the fighting from Dragon Ball).
-Problem three is a padding out thing but it also had alot of talking, more than it seemed. They were trying to convey a whole lot of story and emotion to the children watching the show which took way more words than it needed to due to their age.
-As I said before padding but also plot inbetween..

I feel the Buu saga is when it started to get wacky. Trunks/Goten being stronger then Frieza at age 7-8 due to being SSJ's comes to mind. The power curve increased in the Buu Saga much more dramatically then in the Cell Saga... A few sagas back, being a Super Sayian had way more meaning before everyone was allowed to do it. xD

I agree with everything you said...
The Cell saga was amazing as well, Goku leaves after figuring out it's his presents that's the biggest threat to the world, passing the torch to the one person stronger than he is, Gohan. It was the perfect end for his epic tail, (pun, don't hit me) the most noble sacrifice.

I'd also like to say you avatar is awesome, Senjougahara fascination is here to stay.

 

[Fappy]

-Snip-

I agree wholeheartedly. The series took a nosedive immediately after the Cell Games and never recovered. Dragon Ball was great fun though. It had good fights and some decent laughs, but as you said, it didn't have the raw emotion DBZ had.

 

[bluepilot]

Okay yeah, dragonball is awesome, DBZ did not quite live up to it and in my opinion went rapidly downhill after Frieza. Some people really liek Cell but I think that it could have ended on a higher note without it.

So, why do so many people like DBZ?

Well, Vegeta is a damn sexy *****. Especially in that pink shirt. My goodness, when I was young and innocent Vegeta taught me the meaning of sexy. I used to imagine him flying to my bedroom window wearing nothing but sexy furry underpants and whisking me off to adventures beyond while flipping off everyone prettier than me (sigh).

 

[omega 616]

Well, Vegeta is a damn sexy *****. Especially in that pink shirt. My goodness, when I was young and innocent Vegeta taught me the meaning of sexy. I used to imagine him flying to my bedroom window wearing nothing but sexy furry underpants and whisking me off to adventures beyond while flipping off everyone prettier than me (sigh).

Seriously? The guy with biggest pointed hair? It was like an M with a ^ on top. Well we all have our tastes, I thought Gohan in GT is quite a dapper young fellow.

flying to my bedroom window wearing nothing but sexy furry underpants

Well, that's a mental image I never wanted ... thanks for that. =D

On topic. I like GT, the idea of all those wishes made conjures up negative energy and when that energy reaches capacity 7 dragons each with there own personalities and skills emerge.

Then when they are all dispatched the big kahuna shows up and can only use the abilities of the dragons who in his chest. It was a nice idea ... it was kind of like Cell, he had all the abilities of people he was created from.

The thing I didn't like was it felt like it was trying to fit in as many saga's as DBZ but in half the time. It was like a shit load of mini saga's, first it was that dancing trio, then it was the doll guy, then it was that big robot, back to the doll guy, (I kind of get lost now), general Rilldo, The Sigma Force, Rildo again, Dr Gero, baby, Rilldo again (I think) then the 8 dragons.

Wait, was the one who apparently caused earthquakes but he was actually just sensing them one of the dragons or was he another 1 to add to the list?

Sure there was less screaming and more beating of bad guys but there was much less tension. In DBZ it was always bad guy powers up, then the good guys get beaten till Goku powers up/arrives, beats up baddie, baddie powers up, Goku struggles then powers up repeat till Goku wins. In GT it's Goku powers up and wins.

Never watched dragonball or Kai though so I can't have an opinion.

 

[Lunar Templar]

i agree that Z is a step down from DB. DB just felt better over all compared to Z.

i also agree Z nose dived hard after the Cell Saga. the Buu Saga was like watching the fight with Freiza, long, drawn out and wholly unnecessary to take as long as it did, Z should have ended with Cell anyway, he was a much better villain then Buu was

 

[ZippyDSMlee]

GT was made up for TV and was an utter train wreck, DBZ was just stretched out some...

 

[MopBox]

GT was made up for TV and was an utter train wreck, DBZ was just stretched out some...

Some...? Some!?! ? SOME!!?!!?!

 

[Dr. Cakey]

I'm not 100% sure on this, but based on the evidence it does seem to be correct: Akira Toriyama wanted the Saiyan Saga to end Dragon Ball. It makes sense, seeing as Vegeta is constantly referred to as the "strongest warrior in the universe", while the Freeza Saga alone introduces no fewer than nine more powerful characters. Continuing from that, it makes sense that the Saiyan Saga was a big departure from Dragon Ball, as it was meant to be the finale.

I actually enjoyed the early part of the Cell games, when Cell and Goku were fighting and holding back. Good stuff. Also, Cell gets a pass for being voiced, in Japan, by NORIO MOTHERF***ING WAKAMOTO.

 

[Red Oni]

[HEADING=2]Spoilers Ahead![/HEADING]

I disagree. Dragonball didn't have nearly as many emotional moments as Dragonball Z, in my opinion. It felt more like a show aimed at a younger audience. The music, the fights, it all gave me that impression. I really enjoyed it regardless of how it made me feel. Certain parts in Dragonball Z made me choke up though, even cry. You do make some good points. Some fights in Dragonball Z did take quite awhile. It did render a lot of it's characters useless. Though I feel that started in the Buu saga. At least in the Cell Saga,

Spoiler

everyone came together in the end and helped defeat Cell.

Most definitely. When it comes to emotion you couldn't get much more dramatic than

Spoiler

Cell's death. It's such a powerful scene to me because even after Gohan screwed up and got Goku killed, all the Z fighters are still there by his side giving their best. Even Vegeta gets over himself and pitches in, which opens Cell up for Gohan to finish him. Its cathartic in that we see Goku coaching his son from beyond the dead, finally turning him from the little boy we met in episode 1 to a bonafide hero and replacement for his father as Earth's protector.

This is where Dragonball Z ended for me.

 

[generals3]

Bleh GT... They ruined trunks and gohan which got my respect in the cell saga (Gohan finally stopped being that whiny raging kid and Future trunks was the most well written main character. Not too good like goku but not too evil like Vegeta)

But i will also add that the Buu saga was a bit too "wacky". I was already bothered by the way powers scaled upwards after the freeza saga (weren't super sayens supposed to be the strongest fighters of the universe? But than comes perfect who can even wack ascended super sayens). But the way they allowed kid trunk and gotenks to transform into super sayens so easily was just plainly disturbing. And it's also inconsistent with the future trunks storyline where future trunks became a super sayen at a later age and after facing a strong emotional moment like Goku did when he became a SSJ.

All in all while DBZ was wacky and took a facepalm turn during the Buu saga DBGT is still much crappier.

 

[For.I.Am.Mad]

Dragon Ball GT was beyond horrible. I don't even consider it canon.

 

[Bestival]

-Standing around powering up for an hour.

Dude, that was, like, the best part of the show!

 

[For.I.Am.Mad]

DBGT was given to a bunch of people who had no idea what they were doing. Akira Toriyama would have been better off handing it off to some American fanboys.

Really Buu Saga was the beginning of the end because you could see they couldn't come up with anything beyond make the bad guys stronger. I thought it was nice how they handed the series off to Gohan but then they decided make him a huge nerd when before he was just a well rounded strong kid and in the end they made Goku the hero anyway. The whole point of DBZ was Gohan coming of age and taking the reins from his father.

 

[ZippyDSMlee]

GT was made up for TV and was an utter train wreck, DBZ was just stretched out some...

Some...? Some!?! ? SOME!!?!!?!

*giggles* you got me