Dragon's Dogma: How to Screw Up a Game in Five and a Half Simple Steps.

[Zhukov]

Odd, looks to me like you just copied a review from another site.

Which site?

If multiple people are bringing up the same problems that's probably an indication of, well... a problem.

If you wanted to play Skyrim, why don't you just play Skyrim? Elder Scrolls has been the same game now going on three generations.

Because I don't particularly like Skyrim?

When a game comes along that makes you think, or god forbid,innovates a bit, all the people who have been playing easy mode get butt hurt.

Urgh. This again. Whenever I criticise a game someone always pipes up with, "You're just whining because it's hard."

My problem is not with the difficulty. My problem is with the needless repetition. It doesn't make the game harder, it's just bloody boring and wastes my time by making me kill the same pack of wolves ten times. How is that "making me think"? Unless you mean the way it makes me think, "Jesus, these developers are pretty stupid!"

Like I said to the other guy, it's like having to count to a thousand between each mouthful of a tasty meal.

 

[kyogen]

Sorry you had a bad time, Zhukov, but your complaints are things I like about the game:

1) No/limited fast-travel system. It would not work in every game, but Dragon's Dogma is refreshingly literal about requiring gamers to role-play the "wandering adventurer." Mobility becomes a limited resource that must be managed just as much as the inventories. The main exception to this can be found inside of major towns/settlements where distance is not a major feature of accomplishing a given task.

2) Slow walk. This is partly a matter of perception. I think Dragon's Dogma handles its walk/jog animations rather well, and I don't really get impatient with the illusion of progression they create together with other aspects of the graphics like draw distance and perspective. In addition, if mobility within the larger world is a limited resource, then it doesn't make sense to be able to sprint non-stop across the map. Stamina is just one aspect of that, and to be fair, the game tolerates a great deal of toying with sprint/recovery anyway.

3) Respawning monsters. I agree that some respawn points could use a little more variety, but Soopy has already pointed out that the game attempts to create a logical ecology of sorts. A ruined castles emptied of its bandits will be filled up again by bandits, not by the lizardmen who prefer dark, wet environments or harpies, who like to sit in dead trees along major roads. It might be nice to put certain points on a creature rotation, but it's also nice to know how to avoid the chimera in the woods when I'm underpowered.

4) Pawns. Their chatter doesn't bother me at all. They aren't human, and Mercedes warns players that they're odd and clumsy the first time she's encountered at the Encampment. I rather enjoy listening to them point out the obvious, but I also don't find it difficult to ignore them when they aren't saying anything useful. At least I know where they are; it's a bit like being the parent/guardian of a young child. I'm also not inclined to criticize the voice actors who stood in a little black booth and clearly put considerable effort into giving isolated, de-contextualized lines of dialogue a bit of emotional inflection. To my ear, they get it mostly right. It would be better if working conditions in their part of the industry were changed, but to do that, the industry as a whole would have to redesign its approach to how and when voices are added to the production.

5) Complicated inventories. The menu system is awkward, but at least it keeps everything discrete. It's hard to discard or sell something unintentionally, and my clumsy fingers appreciate that. Having separate inventories is part of party management since stamina and mobility are limited resources. There is a cost to being a pack rat just as there is a cost to traveling light for every single party member.

In general, I find the various game mechanics to be complex and well-integrated, and I enjoy having to take many different details and limitations into account when I tackle missions in the Dragon's Dogma world. There are certainly refinements that could be made, but as Capcom's first experiment in merging game styles that they've traditionally kept separate, I think Dragon's Dogma is great.

 

[killcannon71]

You got a lot of those points from the demo? The one where you just walked through a dungeon and fought a gryphon on a hillside? The respawn point? The fast travel point? The walking point? Pretty much the only thing in the demo you could have encountered were talking pawns, who didn't actually talk repetitively in it, and hopping in the inventory screen maybe four times. Most games have respawning enemies of the same type in the same place.Skyrim, Fable, Red Dead, Fallout,Risen, Two Worlds. It's not a bad game, people all just want Mc'Donalds , and this ain't it.

 

[killcannon71]

I would love to see you point out any other current gen open world rpg with the same art style. If you mean trees, water, and people walking upright, then yeah I agree. But....if you're talking enemy types or ability to paper doll out toons I disagree. I love the western developers, truly, but Bethesda hasn't done anything new with their franchises in quite awhile. Bioware has been reskinning KotOR for the last 6 games (if you want to call it adding game engines or graphics tools or ui or whatever go ahead, it's still the exact same concept)

 

[Thespian]

My problem is not with the difficulty. My problem is with the needless repetition. It doesn't make the game harder, it's just bloody boring and wastes my time by making me kill the same pack of wolves ten times. How is that "making me think"? Unless you mean the way it makes me think, "Jesus, these developers are pretty stupid!"

Like I said to the other guy, it's like having to count to a thousand between each mouthful of a tasty meal.

To be fair, it was easy to think that your problem with the game was how hard it was. I mean, look at all those times in the OP when you mentioned the difficulty. You did it like, every sentence! You were all "Bleh, I couldn't beat the boss so this game sucks!". Yep, that was you alright.

Yeesh. This is why I've actually stopped posting reviews of games or anything akin to it. Everyone completely straw-mans your argument and just explains away flaws that no one pointed out.

 

[killcannon71]

I'm unsure if you can link other sites names in the forums, so I won't. Just google the reviews and they pop up.People are bringing up the same problems though, and it shows that there is a schism of sorts starting to show in the gaming public. People who are starting to get into the review business are no longer gamers but journalists who get paid to play a game and write a review without any love or history in the medium. When you knock a game because it doesn't do what every other single game in the genre does, it's because you're getting lazy as a gamer and want it fast and now now now. Once again, you're right about all the things you bring up, but they aren't bad things. Except for the chatty pawn bit. And the inventory gets cluttered, but you can clean that up with effort on the gamers part. Which is what it breaks down to honestly. I look past all the glitches, bugs, broken quests, lifeless AI in Bethesda games because they're still good games. I look past all the cookie cutter scenarios, horrible sex scenes, and cliched characters in Bioware's latest because they are still great games. DD has depth, great enemy types, innovative party and battle systems, a decent story, the best damn spells in the genre so far, and a NG+ feature for replayability. And you're not criticizing a game, you're trashing it. And I'm defending it.

 

[Zhukov]

In general, I find the various game mechanics to be complex and well-integrated, and I enjoy having to take many different details and limitations into account when I tackle missions in the Dragon's Dogma world. There are certainly refinements that could be made, but as Capcom's first experiment in merging game styles that they've traditionally kept separate, I think Dragon's Dogma is great.

That's fair enough. If these things simply don't bother you then I can't argue with that.

I appreciate you being so polite in your disagreement.

 

[kyogen]

In general, I find the various game mechanics to be complex and well-integrated, and I enjoy having to take many different details and limitations into account when I tackle missions in the Dragon's Dogma world. There are certainly refinements that could be made, but as Capcom's first experiment in merging game styles that they've traditionally kept separate, I think Dragon's Dogma is great.

That's fair enough. If these things simply don't bother you then I can't argue with that.

I appreciate you being so polite in your disagreement.

If we all liked the exact same games for the exact same reasons, gaming would get very boring very quickly. It sucks when you have a bad experience with a game (it's happened to me often enough). I hope whatever you swap with Dragon's Dogma works out better for you.

 

[Kinguendo]

Step 1: Ferrystone.

Step 2: Since when was "walking" fast? Too literal? Okay, try sprinting... dont like it? Try using the ability Mad Dash for the Strider... a lot faster. Still not fast enough? Have you heard of the Ferrystone before? You have? Because I just mentioned it in Step 1? Well then, problem solved.

Step 3: Are you kidding? So a land that is being overrun by monsters as part of the story should run out of monsters?!

Step 4: Actually, you arent saddled with companions at all. You have a main pawn who you can go around without and 2 completely optional pawns, all of which can have their speech patterns altered. You alter yours and look for people who have altered theirs, or dont have 2 other pawns.

Step 5: Why wouldnt each person have different bags and different carrying capacities? Because that would be too realistic(?) T_T

I hope that helped.

 

[ChildishLegacy]

In general, I find the various game mechanics to be complex and well-integrated, and I enjoy having to take many different details and limitations into account when I tackle missions in the Dragon's Dogma world. There are certainly refinements that could be made, but as Capcom's first experiment in merging game styles that they've traditionally kept separate, I think Dragon's Dogma is great.

That's fair enough. If these things simply don't bother you then I can't argue with that.

I appreciate you being so polite in your disagreement.

Well if you understand that other people like things you don't, why did half of your post consist of "THESE DEVS DON'T DESERVE ANY MONEY AND ARE TERRIBLE AT MAKING GAMES", you complained at the game, stating it was objectively bad when it's just not your cup of tea. There is a massive difference.

 

[martyrdrebel27]

Elder Scrolls has been the same game now going on three generations.

I'm gonna go ahead and stop you right there. While opinions are generally subjective, your attempt at presenting your ignorant opinion as absolute, objective truth makes you wrong. Arrogant, and wrong.

You're really trying to say that Oblivion and Skyrim were the same game with no innovations? If not for the name, Skyrim could have easily passed as an entirely new IP. the innovations between the two were HUGE.

Being able to recruit help, not just mission sensitive, but one that is attached to YOU, not the story. (and don't you dare bring up the Adoring Fan...)

Alchemy was completely revamped into a more interesting, complicated, and realistic system.

Mining and Crafting are new.

Dragon Shouts, an entirely new game mechanic.

Enchanting was completely revamped into a more interesting, complicated system.

The leveling system is more interesting and intuitive now.

Spells are revamped. Even simple spells such as Light have become two different, interesting, and tactically diverse versions of their older selves. Rune spells are a new game mechanic, the choice of dual wielding any two weapons, spells or shields (well, no dual wielding shields, but it's part of the mix) is entirely new.

MASSIVE BATTLES AGAINST FUCKING DRAGONS!

so tell me, what exactly are you seeing that makes Skyrim the same game as Morrowind? yes, there are plot devices that are continued through the series, but that's how a franchise works... To say Morrowind and Skyrim are the same game is to say that Mass Effect 1 and Mass Effect 3 are the same game... (it's an analogy, don't think too hard about it)

 

[gigastar]

Why does each character need to have their own inventory?

Ok, so if there was this one shared bag of holding for your party, would you be pleased if that health/stamina restore/stature cure item you needed was swiped by one of your pawns?

 

[Soopy]

Elder Scrolls has been the same game now going on three generations.

I'm gonna go ahead and stop you right there. While opinions are generally subjective, your attempt at presenting your ignorant opinion as absolute, objective truth makes you wrong. Arrogant, and wrong.

You're really trying to say that Oblivion and Skyrim were the same game with no innovations? If not for the name, Skyrim could have easily passed as an entirely new IP. the innovations between the two were HUGE.

Being able to recruit help, not just mission sensitive, but one that is attached to YOU, not the story. (and don't you dare bring up the Adoring Fan...)

Alchemy was completely revamped into a more interesting, complicated, and realistic system.

Mining and Crafting are new.

Dragon Shouts, an entirely new game mechanic.

Enchanting was completely revamped into a more interesting, complicated system.

The leveling system is more interesting and intuitive now.

Spells are revamped. Even simple spells such as Light have become two different, interesting, and tactically diverse versions of their older selves. Rune spells are a new game mechanic, the choice of dual wielding any two weapons, spells or shields (well, no dual wielding shields, but it's part of the mix) is entirely new.

MASSIVE BATTLES AGAINST FUCKING DRAGONS!

so tell me, what exactly are you seeing that makes Skyrim the same game as Morrowind? yes, there are plot devices that are continued through the series, but that's how a franchise works... To say Morrowind and Skyrim are the same game is to say that Mass Effect 1 and Mass Effect 3 are the same game... (it's an analogy, don't think too hard about it)

Wouldn't want to think too hard about that analogy, the massive issues with it would shine through.

Skyrim is essentially the same as Oblivion. It had the Character building aspect stripped out and Shouts added.
The Dragon fights are stupid - Trolls are harder, wtf!?
The leveling system is exactly the same as TES has always been. But the way you power up your Character has been derped, it's like they looked at a Wolverine game and thought "That's epic!".

Mining and crafting are actually detrimental to the game.

Enchanting is a gimped version of the old system. But yet some how makes the game too easy if you use it. It's too easy to access for any Character.

Skyrim is TES lite edition. It seriously comes across as a TES game made for special needs children.

 

[Chronologist]

Elder Scrolls has been the same game now going on three generations.

I'm gonna go ahead and stop you right there. While opinions are generally subjective, your attempt at presenting your ignorant opinion as absolute, objective truth makes you wrong. Arrogant, and wrong.

You're really trying to say that Oblivion and Skyrim were the same game with no innovations? If not for the name, Skyrim could have easily passed as an entirely new IP. the innovations between the two were HUGE.

Being able to recruit help, not just mission sensitive, but one that is attached to YOU, not the story. (and don't you dare bring up the Adoring Fan...)

Alchemy was completely revamped into a more interesting, complicated, and realistic system.

Mining and Crafting are new.

Dragon Shouts, an entirely new game mechanic.

Enchanting was completely revamped into a more interesting, complicated system.

The leveling system is more interesting and intuitive now.

Spells are revamped. Even simple spells such as Light have become two different, interesting, and tactically diverse versions of their older selves. Rune spells are a new game mechanic, the choice of dual wielding any two weapons, spells or shields (well, no dual wielding shields, but it's part of the mix) is entirely new.

MASSIVE BATTLES AGAINST FUCKING DRAGONS!

so tell me, what exactly are you seeing that makes Skyrim the same game as Morrowind? yes, there are plot devices that are continued through the series, but that's how a franchise works... To say Morrowind and Skyrim are the same game is to say that Mass Effect 1 and Mass Effect 3 are the same game... (it's an analogy, don't think too hard about it)

Wouldn't want to think too hard about that analogy, the massive issues with it would shine through.

Skyrim is essentially the same as Oblivion. It had the Character building aspect stripped out and Shouts added.
The Dragon fights are stupid - Trolls are harder, wtf!?
The leveling system is exactly the same as TES has always been. But the way you power up your Character has been derped, it's like they looked at a Wolverine game and thought "That's epic!".

Mining and crafting are actually detrimental to the game.

Enchanting is a gimped version of the old system. But yet some how makes the game too easy if you use it. It's too easy to access for any Character.

Skyrim is TES lite edition. It seriously comes across as a TES game made for special needs children.

Okay. (deep breath)

1) Character building was not stripped out of Skyrim. It simply realized that attributes basically just raised your 3 attributes and cut out the middle man.

2) Sure, if you're below level 10 then trolls are harder than dragons... but around level 20 dragons start kicking your ass. The main quest makes the first dragon fight easier with allies, and requires you to kill a troll in order to proceed with the quest. So you should be level 15 or so before getting to the Greybeards. Dragon fights are not stupid either, just because Bethesda didn't program in Shadow of the Colossus doesn't mean the fights aren't awesome.

3) The leveling system is completely different. All skills contribute to leveling, unlike Oblivion, and Perks ensure your character focuses on what aspects of combat and exploration they enjoy. Your statement is incorrect.

4) Crafting and mining for me is really fun. It's a way to encourage exploration and experimentation. It's also entirely optional, just like every other skill in the game.

5) Enchanting works better in Skyrim. You get the effects not from spells you know, but from enchantments you break down. Also, how can it be "gimped" and yet make the game "too easy"? You contradict yourself.

6) You're welcome to think that Skyrim is too "dumbed down" as Elder Scrolls games go. Personally, I would have liked Spell Crafting (or at least spell combinations that Bethesda came up with in their 1-week jam session). I disagree with you; I think Skyrim does a great job of being both challenging and immersive. All the fun of Dark Souls, with none of the griefing; all of the flavor of Kingdoms of Amalur, without being a button-masher.


On-topic, I think Dragon's Dogma is a game that tried to be truly great but was bogged down by a few poor design decisions that weren't cleaned up in testing. I think that's pretty awesome. It's better to fail because you tried to do too much, than to fail because you never tried at all. I look forward to the developers moving forward and learning from this game.