Dreamworks vs Pixar!

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Ambient_Malice

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Both studios have released some fine films.

Pixar's problem is they aren't particularly original. Now to be fair Dreamworks does a lot of stuff based on other people's IPs. But Pixar has a long history of liberally "borrowing" and recieving endless praise for the final product. The Toy Story trilogy steals material from The Brave Little Toaster left, right, and center, with uncanny similarities to The Christmas Toy, too. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Christmas_Toy (Now in fairness, John Lasseter worked the TBLT until he left due to creative differences.)

But then again, Dreamworks stole the "ants" concept from Pixar to make Antz. This is documented.
 

Kolby Jack

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Ambient_Malice said:
Both studios have released some fine films.

Pixar's problem is they aren't particularly original. Now to be fair Dreamworks does a lot of stuff based on other people's IPs. But Pixar has a long history of liberally "borrowing" and recieving endless praise for the final product. The Toy Story trilogy steals material from The Brave Little Toaster left, right, and center, with uncanny similarities to The Christmas Toy, too. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Christmas_Toy (Now in fairness, John Lasseter worked the TBLT until he left due to creative differences.)

But then again, Dreamworks stole the "ants" concept from Pixar to make Antz. This is documented.
Meh, stealing source material isn't a big deal as long as you do something original with it. Antz is a VERY different film from A Bug's Life. Not sure about the Pixar examples, as I haven't seen Brave Little Toaster or The Christmas Toy.
 

Hawki

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As far as originality goes, I don't think either studio really suffers from a lack of it per se. Pixar's movies often tend to come from pre-existing concepts, and then doing something with the concept. E.g.:

-Toy Story: Toys that are alive, and can't act with humans around (pre-existing) + what happens when a toy doesn't know it's a toy? (Pixar)?

-A Bug's Life: The Ant and the Grasshopper (pre-existing fable) with more complexity (not that it's that complex a story admittedly).

-Monsters Inc.: Monsters live in a children's closet (pre-existing) but are actually scared of children and whatnot (Pixar)

Now the "Pixar" bits aren't actually confined to Pixar, but I feel it's an example of how Pixar generally works. Take a broad theme, then add something specific to it. There are exceptions though (e.g. Up, Brave), and sometimes what's added isn't that deviant (Cars is a story told with...cars, the Incredibles is...a superhero story), but overall, I feel the pattern has generally stuck.

Dreamworks is more willing to do adaptations (e.g. Shrek and HtTYD both came from pre-existing children's books), but that aside, I think Dreamworks's approach is more based on subversion. Shrek is the golden example, to have a setting/story based on fairy tales, but have an ogre be the hero, the princess NOT fall for Prince Charming, sattarize the genre as a whole, etc. Megamind is a story based on role reversal. Over the Hedge (another adaptation, granted), has animals breaking and entering - yeah, the humans cleared out a lot of their forest, but this isn't Bambi). The animals are most certainly not the victims, when a story could have been told where they were quite easily. Even Prince of Egypt is arguably a subversion, in that it takes a pre-existing story (Moses), and focuses mainly on the Moses-Ramses dynamic (which, IMO, is why the film is as good as it is).

Granted, the above is generalizing, and there's exceptions for each studio, but I feel it's a divide that more or less distinguishes them. Pixar will take an idea, and flesh it out. Dreamworks will take an idea, and undercut/subvert/sattarize it. Both can work of course, but the net result is going to be on a "by film" basis.

As for Antz vs. A Bug's Life, looking it up on Wikipedia, there seems to be a lot of contention as to who stole what, and I'm not even sure if it matters. As stated, A Bug's Life is based on a pre-existing fable, and while parallels can be drawn between the two films (both feature a social outcast ant who wants to woo a princess, and must lie to maintain a charade that they've unintentionally walked into), the tone and style is otherwise different. Personally prefer A Bug's Life, but I think Antz is still a decent entry in Dreamworks's lineup.
 

Ambient_Malice

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Hawki said:
As far as originality goes, I don't think either studio really suffers from a lack of it per se. Pixar's movies often tend to come from pre-existing concepts, and then doing something with the concept. E.g.:

-Toy Story: Toys that are alive, and can't act with humans around (pre-existing) + what happens when a toy doesn't know it's a toy? (Pixar)?

-A Bug's Life: The Ant and the Grasshopper (pre-existing fable) with more complexity (not that it's that complex a story admittedly).

-Monsters Inc.: Monsters live in a children's closet (pre-existing) but are actually scared of children and whatnot (Pixar)

Now the "Pixar" bits aren't actually confined to Pixar, but I feel it's an example of how Pixar generally works. Take a broad theme, then add something specific to it. There are exceptions though (e.g. Up, Brave), and sometimes what's added isn't that deviant (Cars is a story told with...cars, the Incredibles is...a superhero story), but overall, I feel the pattern has generally stuck.

Dreamworks is more willing to do adaptations (e.g. Shrek and HtTYD both came from pre-existing children's books), but that aside, I think Dreamworks's approach is more based on subversion. Shrek is the golden example, to have a setting/story based on fairy tales, but have an ogre be the hero, the princess NOT fall for Prince Charming, sattarize the genre as a whole, etc. Megamind is a story based on role reversal. Over the Hedge (another adaptation, granted), has animals breaking and entering - yeah, the humans cleared out a lot of their forest, but this isn't Bambi). The animals are most certainly not the victims, when a story could have been told where they were quite easily. Even Prince of Egypt is arguably a subversion, in that it takes a pre-existing story (Moses), and focuses mainly on the Moses-Ramses dynamic (which, IMO, is why the film is as good as it is).

Granted, the above is generalizing, and there's exceptions for each studio, but I feel it's a divide that more or less distinguishes them. Pixar will take an idea, and flesh it out. Dreamworks will take an idea, and undercut/subvert/sattarize it. Both can work of course, but the net result is going to be on a "by film" basis.

As for Antz vs. A Bug's Life, looking it up on Wikipedia, there seems to be a lot of contention as to who stole what, and I'm not even sure if it matters. As stated, A Bug's Life is based on a pre-existing fable, and while parallels can be drawn between the two films (both feature a social outcast ant who wants to woo a princess, and must lie to maintain a charade that they've unintentionally walked into), the tone and style is otherwise different. Personally prefer A Bug's Life, but I think Antz is still a decent entry in Dreamworks's lineup.
There is also the fact Cars is oddly similar to the Michael J. Fox film Doc Hollywood. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doc_Hollywood

I guess it's the same situation as Disney allegedly "borrowing" storylines\characters\etc from other people's work. It's not that uncommon. People generally only notice it when it gets pointed out to them. And sometimes it is truly a coincidence.
 

Vigormortis

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Sleekit said:
there has beena lot of loving mentions of The Incredibles and Ratatouille in this thread

both were directed by Brad Bird (as was The Iron Giant as i'm sure many of you know)

with that in mind, and although it is OT i thought i'd drop this in the thread...just because i don't think many people know about it...

this is Brads newest film and it will be out this year.

he basically has pretty much never made a bad one...

I knew about Tomorrowland. And I'm absolutely psyched for it.

I am an unashamed fanboy of Brad Bird. I love his entire filmography. From The Iron Giant to Mission Impossible: Ghost Protocol. Even his The Simpsons episodes were great.

However, as much as I'm looking forward to Tomorrowland, what I'm really curious about is the status of his other project, 1906.

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/1906_2013/
 

Hawki

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I can't say the notion of Cars being based on Doc Hollywood surprises me. That said, the entire premise is pretty much a cliche - arrogant sod gets brought down a peg, learns the value of work, honesty, comes out a better person for it. It's a basic moral tale. That being said, I do actually like Cars. If anything, the Incredibles always bugged me more with its similarities to the Fantastic 4, and this is from someone who pays little heed to the superhero genre.

As for Tomorrowland, trailer had me hooked. One of the most effective teaser trailers I've seen in awhile.
 

Casual Shinji

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Sleekit said:
there has beena lot of loving mentions of The Incredibles and Ratatouille in this thread

both were directed by Brad Bird (as was The Iron Giant as i'm sure many of you know)

with that in mind, and although it is OT i thought i'd drop this in the thread...just because i don't think many people know about it...

this is Brads newest film and it will be out this year.

he basically has pretty much never made a bad one...
I would like to see him return to animation though. He seems to be taking to live-action pretty well, but he has a unique voice in the world of animation and I wouldn't want to see that get lost. I know he's going to start working on The Incredibles 2 soon enough, though that fills me with a bit of anxiety.
 

Plinglebob

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If you'd asked me 10 years ago, I'd have automatically said Pixar. Now, looking back on it and looking at their current output, I'd have to say Dreamworks is the stronger studio. Their greater output compared to Pixar means they're going to have a great number of mediocre/rubbish movies, but thinking on it there are only 2 Pixar films I like from beginning to end (Incredibles and Monsters Inc) where as there are 7 for Dreamworks.

I think the problem with Pixar (and why they are rated highly) is because their films have fantastic individual scenes that everyone remembers (Up, Wall-e) while forgetting that the film they're in wasn't as good.
 

Ambient_Malice

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Unfortunately, Dreamworks haven't made a masterpiece like Puss in Boots since... Puss in Boots. How to Train Your Dragon 2 suffered from "hyped up animated film where characters talk too much while moving" syndrome. It was almost as bad as Lego Movie.
 

Ieyke

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Pixar's gone a bit downhill in recent years.
But that's to be expected, I guess, since they were LITERALLY at the absolute top.
The only studio that comes anywhere close to Pixar's track record is Marvel Studios.

So yea, Pixar's gone a bit downhill, and Disney Animation Studios has risen to almost Pixar's levels......and now they're BOTH better than Dreamworks.

Dreamworks just ISN'T that good.

They do some good stuff, but it's rarely great, and almost never rise to Pixar's level....unless you're comparing it to literally the worst of Pixar's stuff - like Cars 2 or Planes or whatever.

Rise Of The Guardians and the 2x How To Train Your Dragon movies are Dreamworks' absolute best.
The How To Train Your Dragon movies are the only ones I'd say compare to Pixar.
 

Ieyke

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Ambient_Malice said:
Unfortunately, Dreamworks haven't made a masterpiece like Puss in Boots since... Puss in Boots. How to Train Your Dragon 2 suffered from "hyped up animated film where characters talk too much while moving" syndrome. It was almost as bad as Lego Movie.
The Lego Movie wasn't great (just decent) and it's RIDICULOUSLY overrated, but How To Train Your Dragon 2 was REALLY good.
Not quite as good as the original, but not far off.
 

Hawki

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Ieyke said:
Pixar's gone a bit downhill in recent years.
But that's to be expected, I guess, since they were LITERALLY at the absolute top.
The only studio that comes anywhere close to Pixar's track record is Marvel Studios.

So yea, Pixar's gone a bit downhill, and Disney Animation Studios has risen to almost Pixar's levels......and now they're BOTH better than Dreamworks.

Dreamworks just ISN'T that good.

They do some good stuff, but it's rarely great, and almost never rise to Pixar's level....unless you're comparing it to literally the worst of Pixar's stuff - like Cars 2 or Planes or whatever.

Rise Of The Guardians and the 2x How To Train Your Dragon movies are Dreamworks' absolute best.
The How To Train Your Dragon movies are the only ones I'd say compare to Pixar.
The track record of Marvel Studios has basically been one popcorn flick after another with no substance to them - comparisons here are moot. Shark Tale is probably the only Dreamworks film I've seen that falls into their realm (and Iron Man the only MCU film that managed to be something more than popcorn).

Planes wasn't created by Pixar, it was created by Disney in order to cash in on the Cars franchise.

As for Dreamworks's absolute best, I'd also rate that as How to Train Your Dragon. Haven't seen the sequel though.
 

Ambient_Malice

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Ieyke said:
Ambient_Malice said:
Unfortunately, Dreamworks haven't made a masterpiece like Puss in Boots since... Puss in Boots. How to Train Your Dragon 2 suffered from "hyped up animated film where characters talk too much while moving" syndrome. It was almost as bad as Lego Movie.
The Lego Movie wasn't great (just decent) and it's RIDICULOUSLY overrated, but How To Train Your Dragon 2 was REALLY good.
Not quite as good as the original, but not far off.
I disagree. I think HTTYD2 was a deeply mediocre film. It was a lot like Cloudy With a Chance of Meatballs 2 - directionless, sloppily written, and just one disjointed scene of characters being stupid after another.

"YOU KNOW THAT DOESN'T WASH OUT!" Wow. So funny. Let's repeat this line a few times over 2 hours to drive home how funny and witty this movie thinks it is. Now let's have Hiccup stagger about randomly so he can trip over and generate some forced romantic tension.

Even the lacklustre Lilo and Stitch sequels were better than this. (Toothless is a Chris Sanders Stitch rehash, don't forget.)
 

Kolby Jack

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Ambient_Malice said:
Ieyke said:
Ambient_Malice said:
Unfortunately, Dreamworks haven't made a masterpiece like Puss in Boots since... Puss in Boots. How to Train Your Dragon 2 suffered from "hyped up animated film where characters talk too much while moving" syndrome. It was almost as bad as Lego Movie.
The Lego Movie wasn't great (just decent) and it's RIDICULOUSLY overrated, but How To Train Your Dragon 2 was REALLY good.
Not quite as good as the original, but not far off.
I disagree. I think HTTYD2 was a deeply mediocre film. It was a lot like Cloudy With a Chance of Meatballs 2 - directionless, sloppily written, and just one disjointed scene of characters being stupid after another.

"YOU KNOW THAT DOESN'T WASH OUT!" Wow. So funny. Let's repeat this line a few times over 2 hours to drive home how funny and witty this movie thinks it is. Now let's have Hiccup stagger about randomly so he can trip over and generate some forced romantic tension.

Even the lacklustre Lilo and Stitch sequels were better than this. (Toothless is a Chris Sanders Stitch rehash, don't forget.)
I'm wondering if you even paid attention during the film. Dislike it if you want, but your examples aren't even true. They do the "you know that doesn't wash out" line twice, once in the beginning, and once at the end. And romantic tension? What romantic tension? Hiccup and Astrid are already a couple, there IS no romantic tension. I seriously have no idea what you're talking about with this.

As for the Stitch comparison... I guess they both spit things up? Ooooh, so similar.

Also, IMO, I thought Lilo and Stitch 2 was a GREAT sequel. The TV series and its movies, not so much though, so maybe you're referring to those.
 

Ieyke

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Johnny Novgorod said:
Ieyke said:
Hawki said:
the Incredibles is...a superhero story
The Incredibles is the Fantastic Four.
Except good, sure.
The Fantastic Four, when done correctly, are MUCH better than The Incredibles.
Unfortunate that we're not going to see that movie happen any time soon...