Duke Nukem: An Unheard Point

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Australian Justice
Jan 30, 2010
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Oh for crying out loud Scott Pilgram is fictional representation of the same role Michael Cera's been playing since Arrested Development. a fricking awkward nerdy teenager. I didn't even like Scott Pilgram as i thought it was a whole load over over-sensationalised bollocks. As for Duke Nukem Forever being shit, It really isn't people have just set their expectations way too high, and when you add all the tards that go on about graphics inferior gameplay to COD or Battlefield it adds to the negative crap that the games been getting.

and as for the OT, you're point is valid.

DNF in the most part bought a few things that i miss from the older shooters. jumping meant having to time a run and press A. not some stupid context sensitive button. Boss fights with aliens. and they got rid of chest high walls, which i agree with Yahtzee is a scourge in modern FPS games and 3rd person shooters.

I'll agree there are a few things it did lack that i also miss such as Health packs, actually relying on the amount of ammo given to you, not this infinite box of ammo bollocks that occurs in BFBC2, but the days of looking for ammo packs (ie Half life 2)
 

karamazovnew

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Apr 4, 2011
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I guess we're following a trend going back a lot of years regarding the nerd=good, outgoing=bad stereotypes. To be honest, I'm fed up with it. Soon, any guy less than 200 pounds, who doesn't play video games and enjoys going outside every other week will be the villain in these movies. Well, no, it's not ok, move your ass to the gym, go pick a fight in a bar, or just watch some boxing matches (K1!!!!!), you're a man god damn it. As for women, they're so fed up with trying to rise up to the bar imposed by TV, Fashion and Commercials that even a career business suit ass-tight woman will enjoy being called "baby" or "chick" from time to time. Treating them "bad" from time to time places them in a safe zone where they can just purr and meow and forget about their every day chores.

Duke is by far one of the best role models you can get in video gaming. Be brave, protect the innocent, work out, look good and most of all, have fun in life.
 

TheDooD

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Dec 23, 2010
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I always liked Duke and how he was used in games. Basically he's a uber macho archtype that fights aliens, pig cops, robots and other shit. Yet his mission is to save the women that were taken. Duke games basically took what work currently and basically ran with planting his character in it while making fun of it. Duke 3D was basically Doom, Time to Kill and Land of the Babes were Tomb Raider. If DNF didn't have that 12 year build up It would have been better received. What would be nice if the next Duke game lampoons Gears yet Duke still is able to carry a huge arsenal.
 

PsychedelicDiamond

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Jan 30, 2011
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To be honest, i don't think that women are a very big part of DNFs target audience. I think it's targeted to men wo just want to play a goofy, over the top action hero. Now, i'm sure the Duke might be attractive to quite a few women but i don't think that they're a big part of his fanbase.

Oh and the thing about Scott Pilgrim is kinda interesting. To me, he never seemed like a kind, friendly geeky guy but rather like a pretty big macho himself. I mean, think about it, he didn't get together with Ramona because he's a better person than her exes but by simply being stronger than them and beating them in a fight.
 

Iwata

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Feb 25, 2010
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I'm from the old days where I actually bought and played Duke Nukem 3D when it came out.

I was vastly disapointed with the game, not because of what you say, but because it was a vastly-underwhelming experience, and because rather than have the humor complement the gaming experience, they tried to go the other way around, and built the entire experience around Duke's personality. It was fun when we got bits and pieces of it, but a whole game structured around it just gets old and annoying quite fast.
 

Dumbfish1

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SoopaSte123 said:
Dumbfish1 said:
You can't generalize 'women' as one unit. I know lots of girls who prefer personality, and I know lots of girls who prefer looks.
Yes you can. You can generalize anything you want. Generalizations make things easier because you can say "women" instead of "the majority of women" and people still know what you're talking about. A few idiots may interpret it as meaning "every single woman ever", but they'd be bound to misinterpret it anyway.

OT: Insightful to say the least. I'm not sure how correct you are, but it is indeed an interesting topic worthy of discussion.
Thats only true if you assume it is indeed the 'majority of women', which is absolute bollocks. While it certainly is a lot of women, to say that they are a majority would be to vastly underestimate the number of women there are.
 

Zantos

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Jan 5, 2011
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I... erm... I was expecting this to be another "And here's another reason why no one should ever like Duke Nukem" thread. I actually think you might be on to something here.
 

SoopaSte123

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Dumbfish1 said:
Thats only true if you assume it is indeed the 'majority of women', which is absolute bollocks. While it certainly is a lot of women, to say that they are a majority would be to vastly underestimate the number of women there are.
No, I'm pretty sure the vast majority of women are at least attracted by looks, which is what the OP was saying. He wasn't saying that women are ONLY attracted to looks.

To argue that women aren't attracted to looks is like saying they aren't human. It's hardwired into us. Even the ones that are attracted to personalities are still attracted to looks, even if they would always pick good personality over good looks. If you think women aren't attracted to physical features or have sex fantasies like guys do, you really don't understand women.

And yes, I'm sure there are SOME people out there that have no physical attraction to other people, but they are rare.
 

Moeez

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Therumancer said:
Okay, right now I think everything that can be said about the return of Duke Nukem has been said. Well, ALMOST everything, since there is a point I've been waiting for someone a bit more influential in the geek media to get around to, but oddly enough nobody out there seems to want to touch it, or is more or less unaware of it.

Plenty has been said about Duke's bombastic attitude... and how an incredibly arrogant hero who is actually as good as he thinks he is is a style of humor certain people don't care for, or just don't "get". However I think a point about the enduring success of the character, and why we'll probably see another purely "this generation" game involving the character with the same attitude come to be.


That is to say that Duke Nukem is popular with the ladies. I don't mean this in the sense of his game persona, but with real world women, it seems to be something that few people have noticed or want to notice.

Understand that in today's "Scott Pilgrim" generation, the whole storyline of the sensitive geekboy who lands the girl by showing how much better he is for her than the macho jerks she usually goes with is popular in all of it's incarnations. It's been a story recycled for decades, but we see more of this nowadays than ever before. A type of story that is popular specifically because of the trend for girls to go with those "macho jerks" which geeks notice and resent in real life. One differance between this "generation" and previous ones is largely that previously escapism involved your typical nerd stepping into the shoes of a macho jerk type as a sort of wish fulfillment fantasy. Basically you become the macho man in the game. Today however we see a lot more heroes who are themselves nerds, who manage to be that self-proclaimed "sensitive geek boy" while still being very tough and capable of doing all the action stuff themselves... a stereotype which doesn't generally exist in real life for the most part, but does in games and fiction and can be accepted because it represents a wish fulfillment for nerds that seems more obtainable than say being a macho man.

The thing is that Duke himself is pretty much the perfect guy for a lot of girls. He's got the perfectly chiseled face, the big muscles, the aryan "stud god" hair, and the whole nine yards, as well as that whole arrogant bad boy attitude that women gobble up, whether we see it as being good for them or not. Duke *IS* a macho jerk, but he also generally treats women fairly well despite the sexism (and actual sex), protecting and rescueing them against overwhelming odds. Basically Duke Nukem, whose personality is criticized, IS the macho jerk the current nerds want to see as the bad guy, exactly the kind of guy that was turned into a villain for movies like "Scott Pilgrim".

The thing is though that you'll notice that girls tend to be fairly close lipped about guys they find attractive in fiction, or just in general, at least to guys. For example most women will tell you that they don't find Fabio attractive (and think about that name and his arrogance in general... ) yet his career in selling TONS of romance novels, and butter substitutes to middle aged housewives pretty much speaks for itself. The same can be said of the Chippendales, women will generally say "oh I don't find that hawt" yet you see all stripes of women going to those shows (they pack the house when they performed at the casinos where I worked), and that's simply a bunch of macho men with big muscles up there flexing around and having an attitude. :)

Duke Nukem might not represent mister "I want to settle down and marry this guy" but he does represent the feminine sex fantasy, especially given his "no strings attached" attitude and the fact that he's not liable to get all that possesive unlike a lot of other macho guys who oftentimes start to view women literally as their property. Basically he's a guy that a girl could have fun with, and then in all likelyhood find someone else.

Now, at this point some people are probably seething and going "okay Therumancer, but how do you know women find Duke Nukem attractive", and "I'm a girl and I don't think he's hot" (which might be true, but we're talking in general, and again I don't expect girls to admit when they find a guy to be a sex god anyway, it's just the way things are). The answer to this is quite simple... observation.

At the game stores near where I live they had promotional gimmicks like cut outs of Duke and his girlfriend you could stick your head into, and I saw a LOT of girls doing that, where guys (like usual for that gimmick) seemed far less interested in the whole thing. Not to mention I notice a surprising number of girls in various MMO chat channels, and just in general, talking about how they play the game. Rarely do I hear many of them going "OMG, I hate Duke Nukem" that's the guys, though there is the general excuse that "well I didn't buy this, but I'm playing my boyfriend's copy", but that applies to a lot of similar things.

To a lot of the nerds looking at this game, I think there is a tendency for us to want to think the game is appealing largely to ill adjusted 12 year olds. I think people are totally overlooking how many girls play this game, and even how the marketing, things like those cut outs for example, are directed at women more than we probably want to admit.

Everyone likes to look at Duke Nukem from a male nerd-centric perspective, but nobody has bothered to look at him in the context of a sex symbol for women, comparing him to other sex symbols with very similar looks and attitudes. On a lot of levels Duke Nukem is Fabio with short hair and a gun. He has the opposite kind of appeal to women that is found in say "Twilight" but it's STILL a kind of appeal, very powerful, and something we've seen in marketing before.


These are my thoughts and observations, and really I think this is a piece of the puzzle that is missing from most commentary on the subject.
This feels like what Moviebob would say on The Big Picture, of how times have changed like from the 80s action stars to when Die Hard changed everything for male action heros to be more relatable. Great interpretation.
 

Kingpopadopalus

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May 1, 2011
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thaluikhain said:
Kingpopadopalus said:
Someone apparently doesn't understand Duke Nukem.

The game was never about revolutionary graphics or ASTONISHING NEW AND CREATIVE GAME PLAY! The game was made to be duke. If you go into it expecting new and exciting things, you're going to be disappointed, if you go in expecting duke in all his glory with witty one liners, perversion, and masculinity oozing from every pore then you will be very happy with it. Never ever go into a duke nukem game expecting new things, go in there expecting to giggle at immature stuff, laugh when the alien explodes into many pieces and of course the hail to the king.
I'd challenge that. Duke Nukem 3D was popular because it had a number of innovative features over DOOM, which slightly preceded it. It introduced shrink and freeze rays, pipebombs, security cameras, trains, and most important of all, expanded 3D movement beyond simply having a 2D map with another axis stuck on. And gave you a jetpack and swimming levels to use this function.

Now, those things were quite an improvement over Doom (though the level design and atmosphere was far inferior), which helped alot in making the game popular. Oh, and there's strippers and you can blow them up, which appeals when you are 12.
I'm sorry I realize I didn't state that properly, DNF was neveer about new graphics or about revolutionary game play. My bad.
 

Trishbot

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May 10, 2011
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From a woman's perspective:

Duke is a friggin' idiot I want to kick right in his balls of steel.

A lot of games feature chauvinist, or at least overly smug and cocky male heroes for the heroines to impractically throw their panties at. Duke, Nathan Drake, The Prince in Prince of Persia 2008, even Marcus Fenix and Anya seem to have something going on. You could play as the rudest Commander Shepard in Mass Effect and Tali will still be gaga for you at the start.

On the other hand, you have emo, pansy heroes that get the girl all the time. Why are Squall and Cloud both such ladies men? Hanging out with either of them would be a soul-sucking drag.

I can honestly say that the male heroes I'm attracted to most are more of the Russel Crowe/Hugh Jackman variety, a bit rugged and strong, but also humble and ultimately noble. Surprisingly, that includes characters like Monkey from Enslaved, Alan Wake, most heroes from Silent Hill, The Prince from Sands of Time, and Isaac Clarke from Dead Space. Very human, not necessarily even totally handsome, full of flaws, but they overcome their flaws, and in all the cases I mentioned they have a female love-interest (to varying degrees) they don't feel superior towards, a mutual respect, yet they still feel a need to save and protect them (Monkey-Trip, Alan-Alice, Harry-Cybil/Lisa/Cheryl, James-Mary/Maria, Henry-Eileen, Prince-Farah, Issac-Nicole/Ellie).

Duke has no "respect" for women. He has admiration for them, but no respect. He sees and admires girls as one would see and admire thorough-breed horses or well-trained terriers, yet his treatment of them, in action and words, is as sub-human objects that exist for his amusement.

I played the recent Alice: Madness Returns game, a rare game with a non-sexualized, powerful heroine, and there's two scenes where male characters degrade her gender: one expresses his need to "do what's natural" with her, to which she pushes him off and talks him down, and another has a man trying to intimidate her with demeaning words and threats about her gender, to which she then turns the table on him, by the end leaving him wide-eyed in fear at just what this little girl can and will do to him. It turns the male-centered view of inherent female weakness on its head without shoving it down your throat, and it was so reassuring to me to see it in the game.

In summary, no, Duke Nukem is not the ideal "Ladies Man". I'm sure there are women out there that want a rich, muscle-bound psycho to "protect their helpless and sexy bodies", but I'm not one of them. I no longer dream of being the damsel in distress waiting for my prince charming. I'm now the one asking questions like "why doesn't Peach save her own sorry butt?" or "why is Samus following these retarded orders from a man that doesn't warrant her respect?" and "who do I punch for ruining Aya Brea in 3rd Birthday by making her a spineless dolt?"

Even Bayonetta's "love interest" is just a dude in way over his head that goes from hating Bayonetta to respecting her to loving her, but he also realizes that he's really not on the same level as her, but does his best to help out... but Bayonetta's the star and he's the support. Great role reversal. Bayonetta wouldn't tolerate Duke's crap; one slap on her butt later and she'd sever his arm off with her hair.
 

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Australian Justice
Jan 30, 2010
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*sigh* instead of trying to make Duke out to be some representation of complex emotion or a figural representation of sexism or male chauvinism, why not we just take DNF as a grain of salt and play it for what it is. Pure mindless action and shooting. Sure the loading times are outrageous but i hear no one complaining about it when Dead Rising 2 did it.
 

evilneko

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Jun 16, 2011
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Duke Nukem Forever, by any other name, would still have been bad. Maybe, just maybe, some people's hatred is at least in part related to the extreme flanderization of an already-flat character, but that's just not the primary reason.

The primary reason is... it's just not good. Gearbox would've done better just updating 3D and re-releasing it. Playing DNF, I have to wonder if they even played 3D beyond level 2.