Duke Nukem Forever and 'Rape'

[synobal]

It's not so different from Aliens, and it's spoofing hentai you guys should really just relax. Find a better purpose for all your moral outrage than a video game that's not selling all that well anyways.

 

[SL33TBL1ND]

Wait, people actually pay attention to Jim? Weird. I'm not kidding, I seriously thought that this website just ignored him.

 

[Levethian]

Lots of good posts. I am learning.

Sorry if I've offended, funguy2121. Challenging post - I'll do my best to answer/explain.

You compared Jim to Fox News in a manner that's really beyond unfair.

I made the assumption that Fox News would agree with Jim's decrying of the scene in question. It isn't a stretch. That is all I said.

You took a very thorough, thoughtful statement about a shitty attempt at a shitty joke that indulged some shitty lingering views of women and turned it into an accusation that a game was linked to actual rape, which was straight-up dishonest of you.

I did not state that Jim accused the game of being linked with 'actual rape'. I meant to imply that as a result of his review, the game is now associated with rape, actual or otherwise.

and then you accused him of labeling fans psychopaths, when in fact Jim was describing the way that Duke came across and not any actual humans.

Jim said that "(Duke Nukem Forever's personality) could only endear itself to the sociopathic and mentally maladjusted". This is a heavy and unfair inference on those that enjoyed the game, as it is almightily difficult to have fun without liking the game's dominating personality.

I think you lack sophistication in your definition of satire.

I didn't claim the scene was funny. I said the one-liner was unamusing in my post.

Jokes about rape are not funny.

I agree. Except for one or two I recall in Chris Morris's 'Jam', perhaps.

The problem was that it turned Duke from an (almost) loveable, Benny Hill-sexist, bum-slapping court jester into a misogynistic, heartless ****.

That's true - seemed out of character. To his credit, he did start mourning the loss of the twins immediately afterwards.

It's not so different from Aliens.

It reminds me of Space Balls: John Hurt is (presumably raped) and dies birthing an alien through his chest, and then the alien sings "hello my sunshine". I guess the difference is that no-one in the film was laughing, just the audience.

At least he can't kill innocent, uninfected women like in Duke 3D. That's an improvement, right?

 

[Thaluikhain]

Well, yes, something similar happens in the Aliens movies. Except that in those, alien rape is depicted as some sort of terrible nightmare, which is a teensy difference.

Likewise, common-or-garden sexual abuse hasn't become a bundle of laughs just because it's been the basis of serious films.

 

[Ragsnstitches]

Well, yes, something similar happens in the Aliens movies. Except that in those, alien rape is depicted as some sort of terrible nightmare, which is a teensy difference.

Likewise, common-or-garden sexual abuse hasn't become a bundle of laughs just because it's been the basis of serious films.

George Lucas and Steven Spielberg raped Indiana Jones and Stormtroopers quite literally in South Park. At that, they also parodied a few scenes from movies which I have forgotten the names of, in which someone was raped.

So, common-or-garden sexual abuse has become a bundle of laughs as a result of parodies of serious films and satire.

Just because you don't find it funny, does not mean it isn't funny. Humour is subjective.

 

[Levethian]

Just because you don't find it funny, does not mean it isn't funny. Humour is subjective.

And if it isn't funny, does that make it automatically offensive?

You know this joke?

I heard that from Ally McBeal I think.
Except it was told with a limbless girl.

 

[Alucard788]

Woah woah woah!

So we men are wimps now if we find rape offence?

Really?

We've come to this in gamer culture?

We really have?

I feel genuinely sorry for any female gamers out there....this is bound to get worse...the few of us who do find offence (not because were some crazy ass conservatives) are outnumbering the ones that don't.

It's bound to get worse before it gets better.

Can you really blame people for NOT wanting to be associated with the kind of people who would defend this? If nothing else, having a huge big AAA game like this that depicts graphic rape with a smile on its face doesn't really do wonders for the game's industries already less then perfect image.

EDIT: Also it's worth noting I don't often agree with Jim Sterling, but I have to agree here.

Agreed.

 

[Von Strimmer]

Jim's just trying to cover his arse ever since those women called him out for being sexist. It doesn't bother me the gameplay sucked but the Duke is still pure Duke... And I wouldn't have him any other way

Edit* Also all this discussion. deliciously contraversial with much indepth look at Duke and the concepts revolving around this game. I dunno guys this game sure as hell seems like 'art' to me. Don't think I have seen a game with this much contraversy around it's content rather than it's mechanics or gameplay.

 

[Levethian]

Woah woah woah!

I know having a polarised opinion is fun, but I'm arguing for a middle-ground

It wasn't funny. It wasn't particularly offensive. It wasn't 'graphic rape'. It was nothing, really. And it's unfair on the game, no matter how bad we think it is, to cast such poisonous associations around without examining whether we are right to be offended.

Duke, however, plays it straight.

I don't think that was their intent. :/

 

[Alucard788]

*post removed*

I'm just sick of arguing it...sick of feeling like a freak for being offended by it...my view is my view and I'm sticking to it.

Carry on fellas...carry on...

*backs away slowly*

 

[Katana314]

If Strong Bad E-mails can make me laugh without so much as dropping a swear word, then it's obvious DNF is scraping the bottom of the barrel in terms of humor.

Maybe it made some people laugh. It didn't NEED to do it this way to accomplish that; especially when the "parody" doesn't even make any jokes, just depicts the event it's parodizing in unusual circumstances.

Here might be an example of a funny parody of pornography that, ironically, is technically completely PG (only crass when you have some image to compare to in your head)
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x7f568_ren-and-stimpy-gay_shortfilms

 

[Lieju]

Yeah, I liked Duke Nukem 3D, but it was this kind of thing I found disgusting and offensive in the game even back then when I was 10 or so. (And one of the reasons I couldn't play this game when my mom could have seen it, because I would have been embarassed and ashamed)

And it seems to be a lot worse in this game.

There is a fine line where a character like Duke is not amusing anymore, but if you don't go close to that line, it's not really that brand of humour.
This crosses the line, though, but humour is subjective anyway.

 

[Levethian]

Sorry, Alucard. It's fine to be offended.

 

[Alucard788]

Sorry, Alucard. It's fine to be offended.

Glad to see that we see eye to eye on that at least. ^_^

To give my view some context I was originally pumped for this game...I saw one of the very first official previews (with no mention of the hive at all) and i laughed when Duke punched the alien in the nads. I figured this would be a fun if not slightly camp game.I almost pre ordered it.

Then out of curiosity I read some early reviews and I got kinda curious about 'the hive' level.

I watched it on you tube two videos of the whole thing in HD...and I'm very glad I didn't spend my money.

The gore and viscera in Clive Barkers Jericho I can stand...but not something like this...even the audio made me feel ill.

I know that judging a game on one level isn't always fair...but it really struck a chord with me and upset me, the visuals and sound are something I don't want to experience within the game.

...and perhaps a bit of my exasperation is wondering why other men were not equally taken back by the level...I guess it's just a genuine "How can you not see this as truly offensive?" kinda moment for me as a gamer.

That's my 2 copper.