Dungeons and Dragons. Starting up.

[Olikunmissile]

A couple of friends have begun to show interest in starting up a game of D&D. There are atleast 7 or 8 of us. Now, none of us have ever played it and we don't know anyone in the area that does. No one has any materials but we can just buy that later. I've just got a couple of questions for anyone experienced in running the game.

We're not typical gamers and I think a number of the potential players would be a little too embarrassed to role play a character, any way of getting them out of their shells a little?

I think I'd be the one who has to be dungeon master, is it as much fun as being a character?

Is the actual game hard to get to grips with?

Any and all information would be wonderful.

Oh also what should we buy, material wise?

 

[L3m0n_L1m3]

Just have them play as characters close to their personalities.

It's a lot more fun, depending on how you look at it, since you get to decide how to completely slaughter the party.

It doesn't seem too hard from my experience but it does require keeping track of quite a bit of information, and being able to improv occasionally.

 

[Bara_no_Hime]

If you're interested in Pathfinder, here are all the information from the books, free and legal:

http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/

Being the DM requires you to play multiple characters very briefly. It's a little more schizophrenic than being a player, but also puts you in charge of the story. I've been DMing for more than 10 years, and I love it.

If a player is too embarrassed to RP initially, then you can coax them into at least a little by saying things like "what does your character say?" - that at least gets a sentence of RP out of them, here and there. Also, if you have your NPCs address characters directly, they are more likely to respond in kind.

If you have any other questions, feel free to PM me. ^^

Edit: Pathfinder is the update of D&D 3.5. Great stuff - my favorite table top RP system.

 

[mare84]

I was a DM back in the day, it is as much fun as being a character, you just need a lot of patience.

It's not very hard to get a grip of a game, just start at first level.

Buy only core rulebooks for starters, after you've learned a game consider other stuff. You need dice, naturally . Pen and paper. Nothing else. Someone should be a "scribe" (other than a DM), just to write down important stuff to make a game a bit more fluent. And to avoid that "funny" moments of "what did we do last time".

As a DM be prepared to improvise a lot, be very patient, and let them know that your word is last.
Don't let players argue with you over something. It breaks the game. Of course listen to what they have to say, you might be wrong sometimes.

In my opinion 7-8 people is too much, tops should be 5. Try to play with all of them, but be prepared for a lot of commotion and yelling. Or organize some order of talking...don't know.

I loved 3.5 edition over 4 edition. It had less books, they just piled us with 50 books in short time with 4e. Don't try them all at once, just core books for the beginning.

When creating a story and world, don't overdo with the detail, just basic and important stuff. Players will almost never do what you though of, so you must either lead them carefully or just be prepared with something different. Be prepared for a lot of weird and unnecessary questions.

I'm sure there is a lot more that I could say, but nothing comes to mind. If you have more questions ask away.

Just don't forget to improvise, that is 80% of fun and game for a DM.

One more thing, I've never met a DM whose first game worked, don't let that discourage you.

 

[mare84]

Pathfinder is the update of D&D 3.5. Great stuff - my favorite table top RP system.

Yeah pathfinder is great! My favorites are World of Darkness and Serenity, if you like role playing over hack & slash those two are simply the best.
4 edition is a little too hack & slashy for me...

 

[Anachronism]

We're not typical gamers and I think a number of the potential players would be a little too embarrassed to role play a character, any way of getting them out of their shells a little?

There's no point in even playing D&D if you're not going to roleplay. Much as I enjoy it, the combat simply isn't engaging enough to drive the game. If they're embarrassed about roleplaying, the best way to relax them is to GET THEM DRUNK. Seriously. Drunk D&D is (EFF!)ing hilarious. I had a drunk session a couple of weeks ago; I hadn't laughed that hard in a very long time.

Is the actual game hard to get to grips with?

Depends entirely on which edition you're playing, to be honest. If you've not played before, I'd advise playing a fairly free-form game, focussed mainly on dialogue and roleplaying, which doesn't make much use of the actual rules. Combat in 4th Edition is relatively straightforward in theory, but you get loaded down with a whole load of powers and abilities right off the bat, and end up spending most of your average turn looking through rulebooks trying to remember what they do. Of course, you can just ignore them, which I tend to end up doing.

If you don't like unnecessarily complicated rules, I'd advise you to stay the hell away from 3rd Edition. I do not like 3rd Edition. It has an absurd number of skills which you need to deal with, and basically suffers from the problem of trying to define everything in the core rules. This leads to creativity and roleplaying getting shot in the face and left in a ditch, in my opinion.

As a DM be prepared to improvise a lot

This is good advice. Pretty much the worst thing you can do as a DM, other than stick too close to the rules as written, is to plan too much in advance. You can guarantee that the players will have abandoned your carefully-constructed plot within the first 30 minutes in order to go to a whore house and get drunk out of their skulls. Yes, we did this in our last game. Our barbarian caught syphilis. It was hilarious.

 

[Ranorak]

A couple of friends have begun to show interest in starting up a game of D&D. There are atleast 7 or 8 of us. Now, none of us have ever played it and we don't know anyone in the area that does. No one has any materials but we can just buy that later. I've just got a couple of questions for anyone experienced in running the game.

We're not typical gamers and I think a number of the potential players would be a little too embarrassed to role play a character, any way of getting them out of their shells a little?

I think I'd be the one who has to be dungeon master, is it as much fun as being a character?

Is the actual game hard to get to grips with?

Any and all information would be wonderful.

Oh also what should we buy, material wise?

Well, my advice might stir some people, but I suggest using the 4th edition.
It's very beginner friendly, you don't throw thousands of choices on a beginner, something that will really confuse people who never played a RPG before.

What the 4th edition did is take all the existing classes of the older generations and give them a little MMO-like role.

You have the Controller. They manipulate the battlefield. Slowing enemies. changing their position.
Example classes: Wizard, Druid, psion
You have the Defender. Name says it all really. Tanks that can soak up damage and Mark enemies.
Marked enemies will get a attack penalty if they don't attack the Defender.
Example classes: Fighter, Paladin, Battlemind, Sword mage.
You have the Leader. Basicly the healer/buffer type.
Example classes: Clerc, Bard, Shaman
And the Striker. PEWPEWSLASHSLASH Damage dealer.
Example classes: Monk, Ranger, Rogue Sorcerer

This is not set in stone, though. A fighter can be a striker as well as a defender.

Powers are the attacks that characters can do. And they are ranked into 3 types.
At-will: These can be used every round. They are basic attacks with a little twist.
They are here to replace the auto-attack like basic strike that most melee classes would use.
A example is this fighter power:
Cleave:
Hit: You hit a target doing weapon damage +Strength bonus. And you hit another adjacent target with just your strength bonus.
Then there are Encounter powers. These can be used once each fight. they are stronger then the at-wills. each with their own special tweaks.
And there are the daily.
Really powerful strikes or spells that can only be used once a day.

If you are really interested you need at least the basics.
1) Monster Manual
2)Players Handbook 1
3)Dungeon Masters Guide.
4) a set of D20 dice.

Additional books I recommend getting later
5)Player manual 2 and 3. These books offer new classes and feats. Like the Monk, shaman and psion.
6)The source books of power. These are the martial Power, Arcane Power, Primal Power, etc books.
These give more powers and feats to the classes that use said powers.
7) a monthly subscription to DnDinsider.com. When you subscribe you get several things.
2 monthly downloadable pdf's with new dungeons for the DM, skills, feats, powers
Access to the Character Creator. A online tool that lets you create characters. It lists all available choices for feats, powers, etc within hand reach. So you don't have to dig through all the books.
And it gives you access to the DnDCompedium. A library with all possible items, feats, powers, monsters. etc

As for the question of being the DM is just as fun as being a player?
Well, that's all up to you.
I personally like being every other possible NPC out there.
giving the monsters a voice when they attack the party. Being the mad dwarf blacksmith.

Give it a go, and quote me if you have more questions, I'll gladly answer them.

 

[Kaanyr Vhok]

Putt me in the Pathfinder camp. Pathfinder is more of a evolution of what has worked. 4th ed is the love child of 1st ed and WoW. So to me is a combination of a step backwards and focus group evaluations. So I don't recommend it. That said it isn't bad... I think a combination of Pathfinder, 4th ed, White wolf and the Irontower/Age of Decadence ruleset would be my idea of homebrew perfection.

 

[Googenstien]

DMing can be rough and fun.. I did it on one campaign and it wasnt for me - it really reminded me of this video.

http://youtu.be/zng5kRle4FA

 

[mare84]

DMing can be rough and fun.. I did it on one campaign and it wasnt for me - it really reminded me of this video.

http://youtu.be/zng5kRle4FA

Hahaha, I haven't seen this one! Talking about deja'vu...

 

[JamesBr]

Well, my advice might stir some people, but I suggest using the 4th edition.
It's very beginner friendly, you don't throw thousands of choices on a beginner, something that will really confuse people who never played a RPG before.

snip

Being a long time gamer with experience across many systems, I have to agree with this statement. Although my preferred system is 3.5, I recently started a new game with a new group of players who had never played before. I chose 4th edition because of the ease of the learning curve and the streamlining of the rules. The dice system is simple to learn but very flexible and many of the convoluted aspects of prior editions have been rolled up into easier to use rules.

As to getting players out of their shells, I would recommend letting them play idealized versions of themselves until they become more comfortable with the concept of open-ended play. A common issue I've experienced with new players is that they balk a bit when faced with the number of options they have. You wouldn't believe how many times I've asked "So, what do you guys want to do?" and gotten blank stares. I would suggest suggest a bit of early game rail-roading as well. What I mean by this is, instead of letting them to do whatever they want and trying to keep up (which I wouldn't recommend for a first time DM), set up a short story with a clear beginning, middle and end, with few branching paths available. Spice up with encounters. This will allow new players (and yourself) to familiarize themselves with the combat system (the most complex and rules heavy part of the game) and with interacting with the game world.

Once your comfortable with that, you'll find it easier and easier to think up stuff on the fly for more organic, player-led games. You're goal should be to get to the point where you can give large, general goals to the players reflecting the story YOU want to tell as the DM (i.e.: Save the world from the evil dragon overlord) and they choose how they go about completing those goals (i.e.: raise an army, acquire an artifact, become professional dragon slayers, etc...). You then build your campaign with these choices in mind.

This is how I've introduced players to the game for years and it seems to work well. YMMV.

There is one thing you may want to consider, however. 7-8 players is a lot of people in a single game. You'll find it very difficult to give everyone the attention they want. It's also very hard to direct that many people and you'll find combat bogs down to the point of un-fun. I would recommend sticking to 4-5 players, maybe run two different groups on alternating weeks so everyone gets to play? You can try to run that many people, it can be fun, but I'm just warning you that you'll find at least half your players idling at nearly all times.

 

[LordPsychodin]

One - Try 4th edition. There's a cheap easy way to get every sourcebook online, via a subscription to Dungeons & Dragons insider (D&Di). It has the listings of every race and class, all the powers, magic items and more, complete with a character builder that can save files so it's easy to keep updated versions of characters, and you get the contents of every monster manual to date in a separate area. The Dungeon Master's Guide (DMG) 1 & 2 I'd highly recommend getting in physical form, but just the first DMG is adequate. If you're good at making printouts you could get away with just one Players handbook between everyone because most characters rarely need too much to look up in the books while the session is going with how easy it is to have everything down on character sheets and powers listed on simple things like index cards.

Two - to get them to roleplay, just let them be themselves and fully flesh out their characters as they go along. There is nothing special or magical when people use funny voices or consider what their character would do as opposed to themselves, but at least the latter can be appreciated and developed over time and experience. Don't hardball them, if they seem stuck on understanding a mechanic during a fight and they're getting flattened, just 4th wall it and make it a bit easier by explaining good tactics they could use. Always accept "my character does X" as opposed to trying to get them to word it like they're talking in character, "proper". that entire thing is pretty bogus, and definitely not for everyone nor is it ever really in the interest of making the game "better"

Three - I'd consider a smaller group, While combats can easily be upscaled in 4th edition, the target is 4-5 PCs, so things can get a little out of hand time-wise per battle. If you get more people, two groups could be done, I can't imagine other players not wanting to DM eventually.

Finally - Remember the world is yours to share, and it's often best when everyone helps. If your players have ideas of people they've met, places they've been, entire organizations that their character originated from, ADD IT. Even though the DM does have the final say, he really only can do that because the players agree to let him. The way treasure works nowadays is many items are best given that match the character's style and strength, not just randomly doled out. It doesn't have to be subtle if it can't when giving out those items the players absolutely want, but being creative never hurts and is usually not too hard, and as you get better you can often figure out what they want without them needing to ask. Following pre-written Notes are good, but if a fight is outright seemingly impossible, the challenge too easy due to incredible rolls, or the story is falling flat and on deaf ears because it's not interesting, too much on rails, too confusing or not involving the PCs, you can change it either secretly behind the screen or just saying "hey guys is this boring and you want it to end? we can fix that."

The DM is pretty much responsible for the party's fun, and this IS a game about having fun as the absolute biggest objective of all, above character interaction, magic items, tombs and fire breathing reptilians. But as a DM, I can say it's a good job and everyone loves ya for it as long as you're trying

 

[Flailing Escapist]

Get several 12-20 sided die.
Get a d&d book.
Paper. Lots of paper.
There is a lot of information and imagination involved too so good luck!
XD

 

[Judgement101]

Just rememebr, roll for traps.

 

[LordPsychodin]

Oh yeah, Three more things -

Don't place too many traps or make them exceptionally lethal - they should compliment other challenges, and players get experience even if they fall into them.

Don't ask for overspecific things - Someone saying they'll search the room for traps or objects or wanting to do something simple in combat should always follow the most logical way to do things - if someone says they search the room for traps, that includes the door and doorway. for trying to find a book in a library, if you want to get specific, give them the titles of sections they can search. If they want to move and attack and they can move and avoid opportunity attacks, don't make them get extra precise if they could screw it up.

Don't place a huge amount of stress on death and resurrection. Character death should be rare and while it is generally uncommon by default, don't make it a big deal to come back from the dead when generally via ritual it is somewhat trivial if they don't feel it's very special.

Edit: Also lets stop the nonsense that 4th edition is more like an MMO. No offense, Earlier editions of dungeons and dragons were the very iconic material the trinity and crowd control concepts were milked from. You can open up a 2e/3e D&D player handbook and see in clear text descriptions of the fighter as the main melee combatant, the heaviest armored with the best hit dice value, the "tank". the cleric's divine powers able to remove poison, disease and undo wounds and restore the dead back to life. healer much? The Rogue/Thief, whose skills in thievery and stealth allow backstab/"sneak attack" for instantly devastating damage he can just vanish away from again with skill and set up for another strike. With poison and backstab multipliers/extra damage dice, even one strike is better than 2-3 from the fighter. I'd say that's DPS. The Wizard sort of fits the crowd control niche role across every edition, with spells that can often shut down monsters for a few rounds entirely. Do you see-see the CC in older D&D better now?

 

[JMeganSnow]

We're not typical gamers and I think a number of the potential players would be a little too embarrassed to role play a character, any way of getting them out of their shells a little?

Talk to them a bit about the idea behind it before the game. Encourage people to be in-character by doing it yourself, and get your less-shy players on board with the idea. Once you've got a few people doing it consistently, everyone tends to follow along, but once people start talking a lot out-of-character, it's hard to get them back in.

I think I'd be the one who has to be dungeon master, is it as much fun as being a character?

As much fun as being a *player*. (PEDANTRY!!) Yes and no. It's a different kind of fun. It can be a lot of work, and you can feel absolutely LOUSY when people aren't engaging with your setting. However, it can feel great when people are enjoying your baby, too.

Is the actual game hard to get to grips with?

Well, some of this depends on which edition you use and how much you dwell on the rules. Always remember rule zero: if it gets in the way of people having fun, pitch it. The rules are there to provide a framework, but how much framework you will need or want will depend on the group.

You didn't mention what edition of D&D you're playing with, 4th I assume? Until you're comfortable as a GM I'd recommend restricting people to the PHB. Don't let them bring in a ton of expansion books. Yes, this means that you'll only have a few classes and races, but the lack of complexity can make it easier on everyone.

Oh also what should we buy, material wise?

If you're doing 4e, you need the Player's Handbook (PHB), the Dungeon Master's Guide (DMG), and the Monster Manual (MM) as a bare minimum, books-wise. You will need a full set of polyhedral dice for each player (that's 1d20, 1d12, 1d10, 1d8, 1d6, 1d4). You as the DM will probably want several sets so you can roll multiples of those dice at the same time. Some of your players may want to get more dice for themselves, also. I would advise getting a character sheet online and printing out a bunch of copies for people to fill in. You will also want scratch paper for yourself.

Also, for 4e, you will need a fairly large (say 2'x2') battle mat--this is basically just a big ol' grid. IIRC there's a generic paper one in the DMG or PHB or something, this is perfectly acceptable. Later on you may want to get a nicer one you can actually draw on and so forth. Also, you will need some sort of markers to represent players and monsters. (These are absolutely mandatory for 4e, which is REALLY REALLY tactical--you cannot functionally adjudicate combat without a mat and minis in 4e.) They don't have to be expensive pewter minis, although I suggest you round up your players, go to the game store, and have them find minis they like for themselves. (This will also encourage them to play their characters more in-character.) You can get plastic minis of various stripes in bulk, or just use poker chips or little squares of cardboard with things like "orc 3" written on them, it doesn't matter.

Some optional stuff that can make things go more smoothly:

A dry-erase board with markers can make tracking info that changes frequently (like initiative order, status conditions, monster hit points, etc) a lot easier, so you aren't constantly erasing your paper or scribbling out the previous number.

A quick reference guide--these are smaller books that compile all the actual "rules" of the game in one location. It makes it easier to look up what some arcane status condition actually does without having to hunt through half a dozen books for it. This may not be as urgent a need if you're just sticking with the "Big 3" base books for now.

A DM screen can help you hide your information (should you desire to do so) while also having some tables of useful info up where you can easily access it.

Graph paper and colored pencils can make map-making/using a lot easier.

One last note: I would actually NOT suggest that you start with 4e because 4e is a tactical mechanical system that may describe combat well but tends to get in the way of role-playing. I prefer 3.5 edition, myself. It's not perfect, but you can freely ignore large quantities of the rules without upsetting things too much, AND if you're pretty liberal as a DM you DON'T NEED A BATTLE-MAT OR MINIS which is a MAJOR saving money-wise. Don't get me wrong, they're *helpful* if you like to do extremely tactical combats, but in 3.5 and earlier editions you can get away with just kind of handwaving the movement rules and running by the seat of your pants. 4e is designed from the ground up to prevent this entirely. If you decide to go with an earlier edition and skip the minis, however, I do suggest having some graph paper on hand, a quick sketch can describe a tricky situation much faster than any amount of talking.

 

[LordPsychodin]

hey, JMeganSnow, (And anyone else trying this) *how* does 4th edition exactly hinder roleplaying in any shape or form exactly?

Edit - I'm not trying to be mean or push more edition wars crap, but I'm just trying to get across there *are* valid criticism of 4th edition and problems of it. But not a single person here has cited even one of them, and to be perfectly honest, every single older edition down to pathfinder has more in their own ways.

 

[StormShaun]

wow 7-8 players, me and a friend have invented a diffirent version of D&D but only with homemade materials and only 2-4 players we call it dungon war, but also I played the DM once and I killed my own players since I didnt like his tone...well he did fall of a mountain (and off his horse, without a recovery roll too) and the his horse did his "DUTY" On him and then blah blah blah and ritual happend and he turned evil and I ball and chained him in the face, no one trys to kill Shauneth Storm and not be five feet under...

But it would be nice to have the actual rules, offical materials and more players...but it is still fun.

 

[Erana]

I wrote a post on another forum about character creation for a silly 3.5 game, and it has some information you could prolly glean from it, so give it a glance:

Spoiler

Well, lets put up the links we'll need:
http://www.rpgobjects.com/index.php?c=orpg&m=getorpg

Once you do that, I strongly suggest reading at least the introduction to the player's manual. Creating a character would be a crash course in the basics of DND, which would work if you don't want to read the whole book.

This website has character sheets that are stored online, so they can be viewed by everyone without having to send PDFs back and forth: http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetindex.php

As to how to create characters, I'd begin by everyone interested deciding on a personality and alignment. If you're having any trouble with alignment, answer this quiz in character:
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dnd/20001222b

Evil and lawful good are hardest to fit into a party, mind you, so we really should stay some kind neutral if possible. Possibly neutral or chaotic good. Lawful goods have a hard time dealing with anything other than LG and NGs. Not to discourage paladins, its just we'd prolly need to find a good variant to fit our group.

Once you've a personality in mind, I suggest deciding on your class. Figure out if you wanna be a fighter, ranger/rogue or spellcaster, and look at the options available in your field of interest: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Character_c....%29#3rd_edition

By now, you've prolly an idea of the sort of race you'd like to play out of the core races: Gnome, halfling (Hobbits), Dwarf, Elf, half-elf, human, half orc. If you want to play something else, let's talk about it. There are alternative races out there that have pre-defined race bonuses/penalities. I'd generally steer away from any race with more than one level penalty. (Someone please be a mongrelman that looks like an orc-sized elf with a dwarf beard. XD)

Once you have a personality, class and race, start to look around at what you want to build your character to be in the future. There are supplement books that contain extra spells and prestige classes unique to its focus class. Talk to us about your intentions, as that would help us make it happen.

As for getting people out of their shells with roleplaying... My rule of thumb for roleplaying is, "You want to see your character, not be your character." That's more for avoiding Mary Sues, but it applies here, too. They don't have to take on the persona of the character, they just have to construct a personality that they'd like to see get into crazy shenanigans with the other players' characters.

I'd strongly suggest making this a very silly game, and encourage them to do things like magically gluing tiny summoned bears onto someone's ten foot pole, or let a rogue steal a deed and forge their name on it or my favorite, have that prostitute the one character banged really be a dragon, and stick them with the egg. XD

And please, tell someone to have a ten foot pole.