Dunkirk discussion thread

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Johnny Novgorod

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JUMBO PALACE said:
BloatedGuppy said:
JUMBO PALACE said:
I really thought Nolan's insistence on playing with time lines and perspectives hurt this movie in some ways while making it work for others. For example, oh and by the way spoilers ahead, the scene where Tom Hardy's wing mate goes down. Hardy looks out the window and sees him getting rescued. Cool, good for that guy. Later on we witness the crash and rescue from the wing mate's perspective and we see him struggling to escape from the plane and nearly drown. But there's absolutely zero tension to the whole scenario because we saw earlier in the movie that he makes it out just fine.
You misread that scene.

Hardy sees what he thinks is his friend waving him off. Later, we see he isn't waving at all, but struggling to escape from his stuck cockpit. We don't see the rescue until it occurs later in the film.
Right, I understand that. Maybe this was a fever dream or something but I could have sworn that Hardy took a second pass around and his wingmate was visible boarding the civilian ship. My dad wants to see it so I'll probably get another look at the whole sequence and get it all straightened out in my brain.
Like the other dude pointed out, Hardy only sees him "waving", no getting rescued. When we see the crash again from a different perspective we realize he wasn't waving at all, he was signalling for help. Only after that do we see him get rescued.
 

Major_Tom

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JUMBO PALACE said:
Right, I understand that. Maybe this was a fever dream or something but I could have sworn that Hardy took a second pass around and his wingmate was visible boarding the civilian ship. My dad wants to see it so I'll probably get another look at the whole sequence and get it all straightened out in my brain.
If I remember correctly, after he sees Collins crash, he continues flyng to the minesweeper (he shoots down the second 109 on the way) and sees the guys evacuating the sinking Dutch trawler (it's when he decides to take down the Heinkel despite the lack of fuel), Mr. Dawson's ship is nowhere in sight. Maybe you mixed up those two ships?
 

Zontar

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Major_Tom said:
Mr. Dawson's ship is nowhere in sight. Maybe you mixed up those two ships?
I remember that scene and I think the issue stems from the fact that when he does a flyover and sees his wingman "waving" at him, Mr. Dawson's boat is visibly heading towards it. That being said it's just doing that, and while it's meant to make us think that he's fine, it's only when the perspective changes from the air to the sea that we realize he's not weaving but trying to wedge the canopy open, and that safe pickup was a race against time.
 

Epyc Wynn

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Dunkirk was everything it was supposed to be. The audio was highly experimental compared to most existing movie soundtracks yet acts as an absolutely essential aspect of the movie. This movie wasn't about Hitler, it wasn't about Nazis being evil, it wasn't about how these characters are amazing individuals, and it wasn't about teaching a lesson. This was a movie solely meant to be an experience accurately conveying what a battle, in this case Dunkirk, was like. The plot line was equally experimental to the soundtrack due to switching between three main plotlines which were all interesting and helped vary the movie.

This movie had an innovative soundtrack and interconnected plot lines combined with incredibly immersive conveyance of the experience of battle. My sole complaint is that I wish the characters had more dialogue conveying their backgrounds. Although I fully understand the artistic decision to keep dialogue to a minimum, this decision nonetheless resulted in me being a tad bored with the characters.

3.5/4 stars
 

Parasondox

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Fucking intense. I mean wow. The score helped a lot and not much dialogue needed because, well, it's war. They are trying to escape the beaches.

Best movie of the year so far for me from start to finish.
 

Tiger King

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Saw the film today, wanted to see it for the spitfires v me109 scenes but was very happy with the final product.
I was kinda disappointed in the lack of French troops being involved in the film
 

Hawki

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Parasondox said:
JUMBO PALACE said:
I thought it was good but not the second coming of Christ a lot of people seem to be proclaiming it is.
Don't think anyone said that.
No, but I have seen people saying that it's the greatest war film ever made.

Suffice to say I don't agree with said assessment.
 

Zontar

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carlsberg export said:
I was kinda disappointed in the lack of French troops being involved in the film
Well the British Expeditionary Force was given priority, so the only way we would have seen them would have been if the story had covered events on the mainland outside of the Mole or beyond when the flotilla arrived.

Though if it's any consolation, I think something like 95% of the extras on the beaches and ships where French.
 

Squilookle

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Saw it and thoroughly enjoyed it, especially as all effects were practical, but as groundbreaking as everyone keeps saying it is, it did fall into some of the same old pitfalls these movies generally do:

For a start Nolan once again makes a film that isn't as clever as it thinks it is. By going for the different timeframes angle he weaves several interesting stories into one and keeps us guessing, but not without cost. The film suggests Spitfires can only carry enough fuel for an hour's flying, have about 5 times their real ammo capacity, and can run out of fuel and still coast up and down a beach without losing height, even while firing 8 machine guns. The events on the beach occupy a week, but it looks like two days maximum. For dramatic effect all of the little boats arrive at the same moment, which is -to be honest- utterly stupid. All air combat takes place at around 300 feet, when in reality it would have been much higher. A Stuka is shot down mid-dive at the climax (which is to be fair a common movie occurrence) but actual spitfire pilots said that was the only time the usually slow dive bombers could not be caught.

Interestingly enough this is one of the only periods of the war when Stukas still used the siren, and I was very pleased to see it used to full effect in the film.

Then there's the usual modern war film traps. Like many, many recent war films, Dunkirk names itself after an entire battle/region, then chooses only to show a fraction of it. There's nothing wrong with choosing not to convey the whole scale and all those involved in an operation (it's not the glory days of the 1970s anymore after all) but it shouldn't be named after the whole thing. Curiously enough most movies that genuinely can be said to have covered all the angles of something as complex as a battle, like Tora Tora Tora, A Bridge Too Far, and The Longest Day, don't even bother to give themselves such a lofty, literal title. If Dunkirk showed us the furious battle in the town between the armoured units of the German army hacking away at the French, British and Belgian perimeter, and showed the passage of time on the beach more properly instead of indulging in it's own brand of time compression, maybe THEN it could be called after the whole event.

Dunkirk thankfully avoids most of the usual grandstanding and dripping patriotism that war films from the U.S. seem to have written into their greenlight contracts, but it goes the other way a bit too far instead. Good on them for showing the French at the start and everything, but just like the gates on the Titanic, in reality the evacuation wasn't so segregated. The first French soldiers began getting taken out as early as the 2nd day, so it's a bit rich seeing them getting forced back on the mole like that.

Another error that is just as bad now as it was in 1969 is the aerial gunnery. Filmmakers think you line the camera, crosshair, and enemy plane up in a neat line before you pull the trigger. No, you have to use deflection shooting. Otherwise you'll never hit anything unless you're right behind them on a parallel course. Big points for having the spits painted with the proper wing markings though, and I understand why they made the 109s like that, so I'll let that slide.

There needed to be more BEF equipment lying around. Like everywhere. Hitler boasted afterwards how the British army left it's guns and tanks behind when it fled. There's no sense of this at all. Even Battle of Britain did that part better:



I generally hunt down the older war movies to see, but so far the 1958 Dunkirk is one I still haven't seen yet. Looking forward to giving it a try.

Hawki said:
Also, if you want another film that deals with Dunkirk, see 'Their Finest'. It's a WWII romance/comedy/sattre rather than a war movie, and also gets 3/5, but still a much more emotionally fulfilling one.
Definitely agree- I saw this one about a week before Dunkirk and it was very fulfilling. Pretty good date movie too, and Bill Nighy was as delightful as ever.
 

Zontar

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Squilookle said:
The first French soldiers began getting taken out as early as the 2nd day, so it's a bit rich seeing them getting forced back on the mole like that.
But that was on the first day, so wouldn't that have been how it would have happened?
 

josemlopes

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The first 20 minutes were great, and the sequence from the start untill the guy goes pooping in the beach is one to be remembered, but the rest is a mess, it tries to keep that tension to such a point where the mundane of standing in a beach just waiting is as tense as literally drowning.

The ending was bad too, it felt like a beer commercial with many forced scenes to get your feelings going (the sleeping guy for example, that shit was just really dumb)

To me it should have been a short film, but in the end its an ok film that does have some really amazing moments spread out (and some bad ones too).

EDIT: The sound was great, it really deserves a mention.
 

Squilookle

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Zontar said:
Squilookle said:
The first French soldiers began getting taken out as early as the 2nd day, so it's a bit rich seeing them getting forced back on the mole like that.
But that was on the first day, so wouldn't that have been how it would have happened?
It's the first day of the week we spent on the beach. Not necessarily the first day of the evac (which went for longer than a week). And considering there are already whole ships broken apart and abandoned when Tommy first reaches it, and the mole already has a direct hit, it would suggest this wasn't the start. Though you could be right.

Then again, if it were the start, there's no way the French front line would have been 20 meters from the entrance to the beach, as shown in the movie.
 

Zontar

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Squilookle said:
Then again, if it were the start, there's no way the French front line would have been 20 meters from the entrance to the beach, as shown in the movie.
I'm pretty sure the line didn't reach that point until the final day.
 

Gordon_4_v1legacy

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I haven't seen it yet, though I really wantt to, because if nothing else I wanna see those fuckin' Spitfires - that bit in the trailer when they thunder past with that Rolls Royce Merlin going hammer and tongs. Glorious.
 

Hawki

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Gordon_4 said:
that bit in the trailer when they thunder past with that Rolls Royce Merlin going hammer and tongs. Glorious.
You'll be in luck if you love the Spitfire - one of the characters comments that he can tell that Spitfires are flying overhead without looking at them due to the sound of their engines.
 

Zontar

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Hawki said:
Gordon_4 said:
that bit in the trailer when they thunder past with that Rolls Royce Merlin going hammer and tongs. Glorious.
You'll be in luck if you love the Spitfire - one of the characters comments that he can tell that Spitfires are flying overhead without looking at them due to the sound of their engines.
Yup, the sweetest sound a Brit could hear on the battlefield.

Not like the screeching of a Stuka, a horrible sound my grandfather always told me reminded him he had air support.
 

Squilookle

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Zontar said:
Squilookle said:
Then again, if it were the start, there's no way the French front line would have been 20 meters from the entrance to the beach, as shown in the movie.
I'm pretty sure the line didn't reach that point until the final day.
Exactly.

Gordon_4 said:
I haven't seen it yet, though I really wantt to, because if nothing else I wanna see those fuckin' Spitfires - that bit in the trailer when they thunder past with that Rolls Royce Merlin going hammer and tongs. Glorious.
Honestly- the hot Spitfire on 109 action is worth the price of admission alone. You even have a He. 111 and a cheeky Blenheim get in on the fun.
 

JUMBO PALACE

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Parasondox said:
JUMBO PALACE said:
I thought it was good but not the second coming of Christ a lot of people seem to be proclaiming it is.
Don't think anyone said that.
I meant critics, not people in this thread smart ass
 

Major_Tom

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Squilookle said:
Honestly- the hot Spitfire on 109 action is worth the price of admission alone. You even have a He. 111 and a cheeky Blenheim get in on the fun.
But, unfortunately, no love for Hurricanes. As usual.