E-Sports--do you watch and what do you think about them?

[itsthesheppy]

Nothing beats the FGC (Fighting Game Community) for e-sports hype. Seasons Beatings: Ascension was this last weekend and was CRAZY. It's still on the fringes, so you can watch it and get the thrill of being part of something that's a lot more grassroots, a lot more community-oriented. They don't have the MLG budget but, imo, that's a point in their favor. So much of the LoL pro scene looks staged and fake and, frankly, a little embarrassing.

Let's face facts: pro gamers are not athletes and the camera is not kind to them.

I'll watch MLG if I'm bored, but lemme tell you... start watching LevelUpLive or Team Sp00ky, tune into some of the FGC majors and you'll see what real hype is all about.

 

[sebashepin]

I'm shocked to only see one comment about The International.

That tournament was awesome, from the in-game spectating mode to the shoutcasts. Some friends and i gathered in one house and saw it on a 42', screamed to the top of my lungs.

 

[CleverNickname]

I do watch TF2 6vs6 (and a little Highlander)

TF2 needs more love
Salamancer is awesome
as a European, I have to watch all the American stuff afterwards on youtube, though^^

I'm more of a fan of clockwork and carnage (I main Scout).

But yeah, TF2 needs more love, especially since 6vs6 can be so beautiful to watch!

I meant as a caster, not as... whatever Sal even plays

 

[Marcus Kehoe]

I don't really watch, and when I do its to learn how to play better.

 

[Slycne]

I enjoy them well enough, it can be entertaining watching really skilled players. I do however like to watch them similar to how I appreciate podcasts. It's often a secondary thing that I'll watch while doing something else. For instance, I'll probably watch much of the LoL tournament this weekend while playing FTL.

 

[RaikuFA]

E-sports has turned a pretty nasty direction. I think making a good game takes more importance over making a good e-sport. For example, I dislike how Riot is agressively pushing the game to become an e-sport.

Now don't get me wrong, competetive gaming as a whole as awesome. Although it's more enjoyable watching a game you actually understand.

That's how the FGC and it's "arcade mentality" acts like. Until it changes, I can't take esports seriously.

But it's changing already, I think. I can see it changing, and that people are seeing how that "arcade mentality" is useless.

Arcades in the US and EU (in regards to fighting games) have died out (yes this really does change things a bit) and there are lots of youtube videos and forums dedicated to newcomers in helping them improve (which applies to pretty much any competetive video game).

Here's a slightly long-ish video about someone who knows more about this than I do.

Then why do I get chased away when I ask a question on a FG based site? Why do we keep hearing about the more famous ones going off on how newcomers wouldn't be allowed to play at their arcades?

I think there is a problem with the genre you enjoy, not with e-sports itself.

Example parallel conversation:

"I don't like sports. Don't watch them. I hate all the blood."

"What? Blood? I never see any blood when I'm watching football."

"I only watch MMA."

Outside of Idra, I don't think anyone trash talks or otherwise bullshits around SC2 pro matches. And even Idra is toning it down (or at the very least making it less retarded).

Oh really? There's no trash talking in the FGC?

How bout here:
Or here:
Or how bout the fact that I couldn't play online without getting threats?

 

[Driekan]

-snipped for brevitude-

You seem to have missed my point completely...

You enjoy a genre of e-sports that is rife with certain issues. That is an issue with the genre you enjoy, not with e-sports.

Hence the comparison I made - a hypothetical person who hates traditional sports because "There's blood everywhere", when that is only prevalent in very few sports.

I do not disagree that these issues are significant and need fixing.

 

[Zeren]

I find Esports incredibly boring. I don't understand why people watch them at all, but then again I don't understand a lot of things.

 

[RaikuFA]

-snipped for brevitude-

You seem to have missed my point completely...

You enjoy a genre of e-sports that is rife with certain issues. That is an issue with the genre you enjoy, not with e-sports.

Hence the comparison I made - a hypothetical person who hates traditional sports because "There's blood everywhere", when that is only prevalent in very few sports.

I do not disagree that these issues are significant and need fixing.

Dosen't LoL/DotA get a lot of flak as well cause of elitism? The only one that gets poditive feedback is Starcraft and that gets bashed because it's too welcoming and beginer friendly.

 

[Driekan]

Dosen't LoL/DotA get a lot of flak as well cause of elitism? The only one that gets poditive feedback is Starcraft and that gets bashed because it's too welcoming and beginer friendly.

A degree of elitism will always exist in any professional sport. By and large, people who are there worked their asses off to get there, and they (Not incorrectly) see newcomers in the scene as potential competitors. This has happened in all sports, no matter if they are played with keyboard and mouse, joystick, balls, or fists.

Admittedly, it might be worse in a lot of e-sports, but I suspect that is due to their comparatively small size. It is absolutely possible for a professional MOBA player to know, literally, every single other professional in his field by name, reputation and face. The same will not be true of, say, a professional footballer.

That can lead to a very clique-ish situation, which I agree is shitty.

But... That leads to another question. Who cares? Unless you are one of the very few people gifted with both the talents and the free time to realistically want to compete on this scene, what difference does it make that the pro scene is clique-ish?

I mean, if you're not a pro, if you're playing for fun... Then it makes no difference, you're not on that scene. You can certainly hop into a MOBA game or a fighting game, or an RTS or FPS and play to your heart's content without having the slightest clue what the "top strats" of the week are - much like a kid can throw baseballs to his dad without having to master the sport first.

 

[Shockolate]

Used to be big into Starcraft 2.

Have since moved to League Of Legends.

I even spectate ranked games when I'm bored.

Probably not good for my bandwidth though...

 

[RaikuFA]

Dosen't LoL/DotA get a lot of flak as well cause of elitism? The only one that gets poditive feedback is Starcraft and that gets bashed because it's too welcoming and beginer friendly.

A degree of elitism will always exist in any professional sport. By and large, people who are there worked their asses off to get there, and they (Not incorrectly) see newcomers in the scene as potential competitors. This has happened in all sports, no matter if they are played with keyboard and mouse, joystick, balls, or fists.

Admittedly, it might be worse in a lot of e-sports, but I suspect that is due to their comparatively small size. It is absolutely possible for a professional MOBA player to know, literally, every single other professional in his field by name, reputation and face. The same will not be true of, say, a professional footballer.

That can lead to a very clique-ish situation, which I agree is shitty.

But... That leads to another question. Who cares? Unless you are one of the very few people gifted with both the talents and the free time to realistically want to compete on this scene, what difference does it make that the pro scene is clique-ish?

I mean, if you're not a pro, if you're playing for fun... Then it makes no difference, you're not on that scene. You can certainly hop into a MOBA game or a fighting game, or an RTS or FPS and play to your heart's content without having the slightest clue what the "top strats" of the week are - much like a kid can throw baseballs to his dad without having to master the sport first.

But what about someone who does? You don't hear about Michael Jordan going "Ok, anyone who starts playing basketball after 1999 and wants to join the NBA one day shouldn't be allowed to because they haven't been playing as long as people like me."

Sounds stupid, right? Well that's how the FGC acts all the time. They think if your first fighter was from this gen, you have no right being at EVO. And places like SRK and DL encourage that attitude from my experience.

 

[Denamic]

I watch SC2, mostly.
Day9, Husky, PsyStarcraft, Tasteless, and dApollo are my favorite casters.
Day9 and his Day9 daily, where we learn to be a better gamer, except for Mondays where we learn to dick around, being the bestest.

 

[JamesCG]

Oh, gotta love some SC2. I'm so glad there's such a huge competitive scene, because I tilt too much after losing a game on ladder to actually get any meaningful practice in. So I watch the pros. I watch DeMuslim, Taeja, HuK (Taking out Genius and Arthur in the IPTL), Sheth because he's so freaking manner, iNcontrol for the jokes, Dragon for his personality, Destiny for his personality... There's so much to watch, that I don't feel bad about not playing the game because ladder is so intimidating.

I just recently got into LoL too (MALPPPPHHHIIIIIIITTTEEEEEE), and I'm actually finding it more fun to play and get steamrolled instead of watching it. That may change though.

So what do I think about esports? I think it's great that people with the skill and dedication to a game can essentially play SC2/LoL etc as their job. I'm just incredibly freaking jealous.

 

[Darmy647]

I respect E-sports and like the fact they exist, but they are usually grouped with games i don't usually play. I know it sounds crazy but with there were rpg sports for morrowind or mass effect or even Monster hunter...yeah, then id watch, but that wouldn't happen.

 

[Driekan]

Dosen't LoL/DotA get a lot of flak as well cause of elitism? The only one that gets poditive feedback is Starcraft and that gets bashed because it's too welcoming and beginer friendly.

A degree of elitism will always exist in any professional sport. By and large, people who are there worked their asses off to get there, and they (Not incorrectly) see newcomers in the scene as potential competitors. This has happened in all sports, no matter if they are played with keyboard and mouse, joystick, balls, or fists.

Admittedly, it might be worse in a lot of e-sports, but I suspect that is due to their comparatively small size. It is absolutely possible for a professional MOBA player to know, literally, every single other professional in his field by name, reputation and face. The same will not be true of, say, a professional footballer.

That can lead to a very clique-ish situation, which I agree is shitty.

But... That leads to another question. Who cares? Unless you are one of the very few people gifted with both the talents and the free time to realistically want to compete on this scene, what difference does it make that the pro scene is clique-ish?

I mean, if you're not a pro, if you're playing for fun... Then it makes no difference, you're not on that scene. You can certainly hop into a MOBA game or a fighting game, or an RTS or FPS and play to your heart's content without having the slightest clue what the "top strats" of the week are - much like a kid can throw baseballs to his dad without having to master the sport first.

But what about someone who does? You don't hear about Michael Jordan going "Ok, anyone who starts playing basketball after 1999 and wants to join the NBA one day shouldn't be allowed to because they haven't been playing as long as people like me."

Sounds stupid, right? Well that's how the FGC acts all the time. They think if your first fighter was from this gen, you have no right being at EVO. And places like SRK and DL encourage that attitude from my experience.

I get you. Plenty of big name folks are dicks. Still, enough of them aren't that I can be enthusiastic about cheering for them. I have to admit, I don't know what the fighting game scene is like, I can't claim to know how bad (Or good) it is, but in my experience (An RTS experience), things are pretty accessible, and most guys seem pretty cool.

I respect E-sports and like the fact they exist, but they are usually grouped with games i don't usually play. I know it sounds crazy but with there were rpg sports for morrowind or mass effect or even Monster hunter...yeah, then id watch, but that wouldn't happen.

The burden of information involved to enjoy a competitive RPG game would be humongous. Those are games that pretty much run on Maths, and very often there is no visible outlet for these maths - they happen under the hood, and one character dies while another gets to live.

It is a problem perceptible even in much simpler games with character customization systems, like MOBAs. Put a normal human being in front of a screen showing a pro game of LoL, and after the first big game-deciding engagement, chances are the person is gonna go "But why did he win? What did they do different?"

Getting a person from this stage to actually getting the game is a long, arduous process.

On the other hand, fighting games and RTSs tend to be fairly visual. I got my GF to watch matches with me (Because I wouldn't miss IEM, so if she wants to be around me, she better watch me), and after getting a grasp of what each unit does, and how much effort goes into doing stuff, she could enjoy it. Seriously. Without ever playing it.

 

[Razentsu]

Spoiler

Dosen't LoL/DotA get a lot of flak as well cause of elitism? The only one that gets poditive feedback is Starcraft and that gets bashed because it's too welcoming and beginer friendly.

A degree of elitism will always exist in any professional sport. By and large, people who are there worked their asses off to get there, and they (Not incorrectly) see newcomers in the scene as potential competitors. This has happened in all sports, no matter if they are played with keyboard and mouse, joystick, balls, or fists.

Admittedly, it might be worse in a lot of e-sports, but I suspect that is due to their comparatively small size. It is absolutely possible for a professional MOBA player to know, literally, every single other professional in his field by name, reputation and face. The same will not be true of, say, a professional footballer.

That can lead to a very clique-ish situation, which I agree is shitty.

But... That leads to another question. Who cares? Unless you are one of the very few people gifted with both the talents and the free time to realistically want to compete on this scene, what difference does it make that the pro scene is clique-ish?

I mean, if you're not a pro, if you're playing for fun... Then it makes no difference, you're not on that scene. You can certainly hop into a MOBA game or a fighting game, or an RTS or FPS and play to your heart's content without having the slightest clue what the "top strats" of the week are - much like a kid can throw baseballs to his dad without having to master the sport first.

But what about someone who does? You don't hear about Michael Jordan going "Ok, anyone who starts playing basketball after 1999 and wants to join the NBA one day shouldn't be allowed to because they haven't been playing as long as people like me."

Sounds stupid, right? Well that's how the FGC acts all the time. They think if your first fighter was from this gen, you have no right being at EVO. And places like SRK and DL encourage that attitude from my experience.

The arcade mentality is dwindling, and that's because we know it's not helping to make our community any bigger. We still have our fair share of jerks, but the truth is there are lot more folk out there that want new blood in the scene nowadays. The elitists are a minority. Notable FGC members like UltraDavid and James Chen, Gootecks and Mike Ross, Rokunaya, Maximillian, and many others actively welcome and educate fighting game newbies. Hell, if you ever have questions about a fighting game, hit me up.

Trash talk is still a thing, but a lot of it is for the sake of hype. Unless player personalities really don't get along, trash talk usually doesn't mean much. The pop-offs can get mad hype, and lead to entertaining rivalries and money matches.

"aaaAAAaaa WWe-Sports!" XD

But yeah, as silly as the term "e-Sports" sounds, I love e-Sports. I really only play fighting games, but I do watch the occasional StarCraft and League of Legends. I'm really enjoying the LoL World Championships stream.

 

[Darmy647]

Dosen't LoL/DotA get a lot of flak as well cause of elitism? The only one that gets poditive feedback is Starcraft and that gets bashed because it's too welcoming and beginer friendly.

A degree of elitism will always exist in any professional sport. By and large, people who are there worked their asses off to get there, and they (Not incorrectly) see newcomers in the scene as potential competitors. This has happened in all sports, no matter if they are played with keyboard and mouse, joystick, balls, or fists.

Admittedly, it might be worse in a lot of e-sports, but I suspect that is due to their comparatively small size. It is absolutely possible for a professional MOBA player to know, literally, every single other professional in his field by name, reputation and face. The same will not be true of, say, a professional footballer.

That can lead to a very clique-ish situation, which I agree is shitty.

But... That leads to another question. Who cares? Unless you are one of the very few people gifted with both the talents and the free time to realistically want to compete on this scene, what difference does it make that the pro scene is clique-ish?

I mean, if you're not a pro, if you're playing for fun... Then it makes no difference, you're not on that scene. You can certainly hop into a MOBA game or a fighting game, or an RTS or FPS and play to your heart's content without having the slightest clue what the "top strats" of the week are - much like a kid can throw baseballs to his dad without having to master the sport first.

But what about someone who does? You don't hear about Michael Jordan going "Ok, anyone who starts playing basketball after 1999 and wants to join the NBA one day shouldn't be allowed to because they haven't been playing as long as people like me."

Sounds stupid, right? Well that's how the FGC acts all the time. They think if your first fighter was from this gen, you have no right being at EVO. And places like SRK and DL encourage that attitude from my experience.

I get you. Plenty of big name folks are dicks. Still, enough of them aren't that I can be enthusiastic about cheering for them. I have to admit, I don't know what the fighting game scene is like, I can't claim to know how bad (Or good) it is, but in my experience (An RTS experience), things are pretty accessible, and most guys seem pretty cool.

I respect E-sports and like the fact they exist, but they are usually grouped with games i don't usually play. I know it sounds crazy but with there were rpg sports for morrowind or mass effect or even Monster hunter...yeah, then id watch, but that wouldn't happen.

The burden of information involved to enjoy a competitive RPG game would be humongous. Those are games that pretty much run on Maths, and very often there is no visible outlet for these maths - they happen under the hood, and one character dies while another gets to live.

It is a problem perceptible even in much simpler games with character customization systems, like MOBAs. Put a normal human being in front of a screen showing a pro game of LoL, and after the first big game-deciding engagement, chances are the person is gonna go "But why did he win? What did they do different?"

Getting a person from this stage to actually getting the game is a long, arduous process.

On the other hand, fighting games and RTSs tend to be fairly visual. I got my GF to watch matches with me (Because I wouldn't miss IEM, so if she wants to be around me, she better watch me), and after getting a grasp of what each unit does, and how much effort goes into doing stuff, she could enjoy it. Seriously. Without ever playing it.

I dont know man. If someone hardcored Morrowind in front of me, i'd watch.

 

[MeChaNiZ3D]

The only game I watch for entertainment is Armored Core V, and that's just whatever is on Youtube. I've tried watching FPS tournaments, but it's just not interesting. As for what I think, I can't imagine why you would watch them unless you're hoping to pick up strategies for your own game. I'd think playing the game would be more enjoyable. But if people do enjoy them, no skin off my nose, and what's more it's another way gaming is making itself known as a legitimate lifestyle (almost said playstyle there). So more power to it.

That said, I don't watch normal sports much either, so...that could make a difference.

 

[Dansen]

lol @ esports.

Till they learn how to not be sore winners and/or accept newcomers they're a joke

Yeah! And we should let casual basketball players play in leagues with the pros! /sarcasm .

I like wathing fighting games mostly . As someone who plays fighting games what the pros do isn't as easy as it looks , and the meta game is rediculious.

Or you know you're not allowed to join the Pee Wee hockey team until you beat Wayne Gretsky in a 1 on 1 match.

That's how the FGC and it's "arcade mentality" acts like. Until it changes, I can't take esports seriously.

You do realize there are tons of open tournaments organized by regular people an average player can participate in, right? My friends recently participated in one last week.