DrVornoff said:
Therumancer said:
Actually at this point in time being politically correct is one of the worst things you can be when it comes to the media, political correctness destroys everything that it touches by forcing token characters into everything, and leading groups of people to feel that having someone like them is an entitlement that creators must cater to.
Bullshit. The number one reason that token characters get inserted into a product is, survey says...! Because the conventional wisdom of the entertainment industry is that the straight white male age 14-28 is the most lucrative audience to cater to, but they can make some extra scratch by throwing in trivial details that can trick other demographics and minorities into buying the product as well.
What, did you think that the reason there are so few movies targeted to middle class black people is because there aren't enough black actors in Hollywood? That the reason we don't have more movies like
Bridesmaids or
Sucker Punch is because there's a shortage of talented actresses in the US? Give me a fucking break.
How do you think the ethnic sidekick got to be a stereotype? Why do you think romantic sub-plots are crammed into damn near every fucking story, regardless of whether or not it needs to be there? And why is it all of these things are so trite, formulaic and cliche? Because the studios are just putting them in because they think that's the way to get money from the periphery demographics.
Now, that in itself is pretty fucking poisonous. And you'll be hardpressed to find someone who hates focus groups more than I do. But to blame it on a motivation of political correctness, wanting to be nice to people? Don't make me laugh.
Focus groups are a problem to be sure, but political correctness is as big, or bigger an issue when it comes to the media. In many cases the reason why minorities are added to existing franchises is because of people screaming about how the material is bigoted due to them not being included to begin with. Your issue with focus groups applies more towards properties being established for the first time, as opposed to changes being forced on established properties that are already successful.
When it comes to certain issues, like blacks, the issue has to do with un-adapted sub-cultures more than anything. You generally see black actors and comedians to try and use their acts to make inflammatory political statements and fuel a counter-culture that is destructive to it's own members and the rest of society. This is one of the reasons why Bill Cosby and I guess more currently Will Smith, are viewed as exceptions to the general rule, they more or less perform as fairly normal people, and keep a lot of the ethnic politics out of their performances (though there are exceptions) both have been considered sell outs for it, and honestly Bill Cosby is one of the guys who has sort of spelled out the problems
here himself.
Movies like "Sucker Punch" are in a slightly differant boat, the reason being that movies of that sort have generally not been all that well received or successful. Whether it's a matter of the movies being too smart for their audience, or mindless eye candy, the bottom line a lot of these movies trying to star attractive female leads and mostly female casts that aren't "chic flicks", fail to hit the right niche. Had "Sucker Punch" been as successful as many people hoped you might have seen things change, but really you didn't.
The bottom line is that things generally go to crap when you see situations where minorities actively campaign for inclusion based on arguements of entitlement, and studios force the creators to comply. Indeed it's all of the pressure to include more homosexuality in their games that has tainted the perceptions of Bioware and made this an issue. More people got upset over demands for a gay Shepard, than did when they just threw in some gay men in "Origins" specifically because of the political grandstanding. The same thing applies to other non-sexual minorities as well.
One of the more infamous stories out there (which has been around for a while) is about why Joss Whedon got himself into so much trouble with the networks. Basically his "Buffyverse" was accused of being too "white washed" and he was told flat out due to complaints and pressure that he was going to have to create major, minority characters in the main Buffy series. The entire last season was supposedly a result of this where you saw one black girl who was a potential slayer given a ton of unwarrented screen time, and the whole black principal as a monster killer thing added in specifically for those reasons. The end result was Joss wound up fighting the networks to do what he wanted (this was not the only issue, especially over a period of years) and it did not end well. Joss is by no means a racist, as shows like "Firefly" and other works have shown, but the demand arguably wound up wrecking his work and he wound up letting himself being fired in a very nasty situation rather than giving up his creative integrity on any front. Back when Buffy ended there was a lot of discussion about this, and according to some of the stuff floating around when Joss was questioned he made comments about NDAs on the details but definatly implied that was at
least one of the issues involved. I believe when asked about those two characters in paticular at one point he is reported as saying rather evasively that he wasn't going to
talk about characters that weren't his creation.
The basic point here is that if you want to avoid accusations of political correctness, minorities have to more or less remain silent and not make demands to be included in things. As soon as you see those demands, it raises all kinds of questions, especially seeing as the very nature of a demand means that the group in question felt there was a lack of representation for them to comment to begin with.
Focus groups can be just as bad in many cases, but it depends on the exact production. In general if something is being created by a network or affiliated team it's less of a big deal than cases where your looking at the work that comes down to a specific creator, or non-affiliated team. If a network starts demanding too much of a Joss Whedon, JJ Abrams, or other creator, that can wreck the entire creative process. However when a show is just starting out and an initial cast is being established it's not as big a deal, as when you start screwing with the cast and formula of a show that is already successful. In most cases it's when shows, games, or whatever else get successful that you start seeing minorities demanding representation, and the issue of political correctness tends to rear it's head.
"Political Correctness" is not just about being nice to people, or tolerating them being around, but acknowledging their fundemental right to included in everything, and forcing that when need be. Entitlement is the issue, not simply being nice, or polite.
Of course while it's a seperate issue the problem with political correctness is also that being nice prevents specific problems from being recognized and dealt with. Bill Cosby (whom I take seriously because of his PHD in Children's Education) has gone off on length about black culture, and how it encourages squandering the oppertunities presented, and refuses to adapt into society. How the "git rich or die trying" mentality has created a situation where a person can be viewed as a sellout for becoming educated and trying to live a normal life... black culture being mostly glorifying the very top or very bottom of society to an exagerrated degree and dismissing everything else in between. To point this out though, never mind suggest solutions, is politically incorrect. Political correctness having become an issue and an insult largely because of the baggage it carries with it, and the fact that it simply puts so many issues totally off the table for discussion, as it by definition does not allow people in general to admit many problems even exist.
