EA Does it Again

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Linkassassin360

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Dec 28, 2009
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Gorumgol said:
Linkassassin360 said:
It surprises me how a company so out of touch with its fans could do so well. Why does it always seem that when I think about greed suits trying to press gamers for every dime, I think of EA? Vavle never had to penny pinch to get where it is... and their games are always great :/
Sorry for the rant, EA just puts me in a bad mood becuase if more companies were like them.....
Valve makes most of its money off Steam. Which is the biggest "no you can't resell games" service ever. Using them as an example of good guys is pretty ironic.
Well yes, but ALL digital services are like that. I could buy EA games off their site for the same price at stores and not be able to trade it in.
Valve is great because they actually are actually listening to and rewarding their fanbase. Take TF2 for example. How long has it been out? Around 3 years and its STILL recieving substancial updates for FREE! However EA has had Battlefield 2, AND Mass Effect 2 out for under one year and they have gone past the free updates. :/
Valve is atleast the lesser of two evils, With better games to boast on top of that.
 

Gaderael

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Apr 14, 2009
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Keava said:
TPiddy said:
Could you just imagine if other used markets started doing this? Used cars? used furniture? It's crazy. I understand that Gamestop and EB Games with their $5 less than new used game racket are the real problem here, but you know what? There are other better ways to deal with this. Digital Distribution, mail orders, big retailers like Future Shop and Best Buy who aren't really out to fuck the distributor, etc. Just stop shipping your games to EB and see what happens. Or ship less copies. No, instead they take it out on the consumer.
Oh but they do use this. For ages. When you buy used toaster or car you are most likely not eligible for additional service from the producer like warranty for example. Sure you can probably buy something used that still has it's warranty valid, but so there is a slight chance you might buy a used game the previous owner haven't use the code for.
Yeah, but no. See, Warranties are added features. If I buy a used car, I know that I'm not going to get a warranty (unless bought off of a used lot). I still get the car, and everything that the car could do when bought new. If the Car was made by EA, If I bought it used, I'd only be able to drive it around the city, and would be unable to take it on the highway. EA's has actively removed a feature from the total package and made it less of a game.

This is going to bother consumers, especially of the Sports genre. These guys are all about online play, with fantasy leagues and whatnot. Taking away this feature if buying the game used is going to hurt EA in the long run, which is a shame, as I really thought they were starting to turn it around.
 

Omnific One

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Apr 3, 2010
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Restricting online play is a little low, but still better than if they restrict SP. Servers do cost money. If they try to restrict SP, I will not buy any games new from that publisher. Doing that is unadulterated greed.
 

dietpeachsnapple

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May 27, 2009
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Company A sells a product that some can afford(Customer A [Ca]), and others cannot(Customer B [Cb]). Ca sells his property (the copy of the game) to Company B. Company B raises the price from what it bought the property for, but leaves that price lower than Company A. Cb can afford and justify the purchase from Company B but not from Company A. Company B sells its property to Cb.

The only question I see here is how do you define property, ownership, and does this property "deteriorate" as it is passed to new owners?
 

ILPPendant

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Jul 15, 2008
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First sale doctrine so far has meant that EA can do nothing about the used game market apart from lock users out of multiplayer and all the rest. However, the recent (as in, like, a week ago) case Vernor vs. Autodesk, Inc. [http://www.ca9.uscourts.gov/datastore/opinions/2010/09/10/09-35969.pdf] mixes things up in a slightly disturbing way. The story: Autodesk sells CAD software protected, as all software is, by an EULA. One customer, CTA, bought copies of the software named in this document as "Release 14" (referring presumably to their software AutoCAD) and eventually sold them on second hand to Vernor (in a garage sale), who then sold them on on eBay. When Autodesk saw the auctions, they DMCA'd Vernor, who believing himself to be in the right (not without cause), counter DMCA'd. Autodesk failed to respond, so eBay reinstated the auction. This happened four times, the fourth time Vernor getting his account temporarily suspended for a month. As a powerseller, this cost him money, so he took Autodesk to court to get them to stop filing DMCA takedown notices.

The court agreed with him, however, the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals went the opposite direction:
Judge Callahan said:
We hold today that a software user is a licensee rather than an owner of a copy where the copyright owner (1) specifies that the user is granted a license; (2) significantly restricts the user's ability to transfer the software; and (3) imposes notable use restrictions.
...
we conclude that CTA was a licensee rather than an owner of copies of Release 14 and thus was not entitled to invoke the first sale doctrine or the essential step defense.
Evidently, this opens up anyone selling software protected by an EULA of some description to claims of copyright infringement, as happened to Vernor. I imagine the EFF isn't terribly thrilled about this. But it gets better.
Autodesk retained title to the software and imposed significant transfer restrictions: it stated that the license is nontransferable, the software could not be transferred or leased without Autodesk's written consent
...
Thus, because Autodesk reserved title to Release 14 copies and imposed significant transfer and use restrictions, we conclude that its customers are licensees of their copies of Release 14 rather than owners.
...
Vernor did not receive title to the copies from CTA and accordingly could not pass ownership on to others. Both CTA's and Vernor's sales infringed Autodesk's exclusive right to distribute copies of its work.
Because Vernor was not an owner, his customers are also not owners of Release 14 copies. Therefore, when they install Release 14 on their computers, the copies of the software that they make during installation infringe Autodesk's exclusive reproduction right because they too are not entitled to the benefit of the essential step defense.
There's a little footnote here which states that you are entitled to first sale rights, if you are the formal owner of the software; but if you're merely a licensee, then all bets are off, no matter how intuitive it may seem to be able to sell something you paid money for.

Vernor cited United States vs. Wise, which basically states that if you transfer something to someone for compensation and cannot reasonably expect them to return it as part of the deal (so rentals don't count) - "indefinite possession" - you have essentially sold it. Unfortunately, the court disagreed with him.
In Wise, we utilized a multi-factor balancing test to distinguish between a first sale and a license of a copyrighted film print. United States v. Wise, 550 F.2d 1180, 1190-92 (9th Cir. 1977). We considered a transferee?s ability to possess a print indefinitely as one factor in our analysis, but we did not treat it as dispositive. If we had, we would not have needed to consider other contractual provisions, such as retention of title, copying prohibitions, and lending restrictions. Id. Moreover, we held in Wise that two agreements were licenses rather than first sales, even though those agreements did not describe any provision requiring the transferee to return the prints to the copyright owners.
Perhaps more directly relevant to the discussion in this thread was Vernor's fourth point. Since Autodesk did not require repeating license payments or impose time limits, they were making a "first sale", although this seems pretty much a rehash of his Wise citation. However, there was a key difference, in that he cited bankruptcy legislation. Needless to say, the court didn't seem terribly impressed.

(In a slightly naughty move by Autodesk, they tried to claim that since Vernor had purchased the software from a licensee, he was bound by the same EULA as CTA - despite never agreeing to it! Thankfully (or should that be mercifully), the court demurred on that point. And people say Microsoft is evil...)

What have we learned from all this? This case pretty much confirmed what many of the "you're buying a license, not a commodity" camp of the "games as property" debate have been saying for a while now. It's just a bit of a shame that it's so sweeping.