EA Hosting Panel on Homophobia in Gaming

[squid5580]

For lack of better words (and no offense ladies since my wife hates it when I tell her to do this but) MAN UP!!

But if I man up and find them to beat the shit out of them a la Jay and Silent Bob, they'll sue me.

Right because someone calling you a name gives you the right to beat them up? You can't instead (talking about XBL here and not the real world) mute them, ignore them and carry one with your life? Hey wait couldn't you do that in the real world too? Where I come from (and it might be one of them wacky Canadian ideas like socialized healthcare) when someone calls someone else a name you either fire back with one of your own or walk away. We don't encourage people to beat each other up when words are used.

The bigger the deal made the bigger the victory for the wrong side.

Really? Because it seems we hear the N word a lot less these days than before we made a big deal out of it.

Not really. It is just more taboo for an outsider to use it. And you haven't been on XBL much have you. The N word is used just as much as the F word by some. Pretty easy to blame the entire community for the actions of some.

 

[squid5580]

Ok I am probably going to take ALOT of heat for this one. I think the system isn't perfect and we can't expect it to be.

No, that's fine. However, how *you* think the system should be and how you would change it cannot save *them* from accusations of unequal treatment.

Just because you would not walk down that road and get tangled up in this question, that does not mean THEY have not done so.

You know from my experience on XBL the one thing I have noticed is they discriminate pretty equally.

And you really need to decide which one you wanna argue. The virtual world or the real one. Different rules apply to each.

 

[Biek]

I was thinking about this thread and realized I couldnt relate much to the problem. As a solution, I decided I could act like im gay on PSnetwork. I came across a problem though: I cant think of a way to give the gaming community a hint that im game in a non blatant way. And with non blatant I mean I think its inapropriate to talk about my or anyone elses sexual orientation in a casual voice chat in a game of COD5.

Other solutions I came up with is a hint in my nickname, however, the same problem occurs. I cant think of any nickname that gives people a clear sign that im gay, without actually having a name like: Ilikeboys, rainbowunicorn or whatever.

Another way would be the way I talk. I could talk in a stereotypical gay way. Kind of feminine you know. A bit like that ghoul from Apocalypse Lane.

I could use some advice on this and if I come across anything good ill try it. I have planned certain responses for when some kid will harrass me over it: I either ignore them or piss them off even more by making it clear to them their words are powerless and I can just mute them, and that im not going anywhere. I can piss them off even more by calling them "breeders" everytime they call me "F**".

My point is, once they realize their insults do not affect you. Their pretty much powerless. A tried and proven way of dealing with trolls.

 

[cobra_ky]

MS isn't stopping them. These tools aren't specifically designed for the GBLT so I guess there is your problem. I can't think of any other reason that people wouldn't use them or why they are ineffective except people don't use them. Which makes them ineffective.

my point is that microsoft obviously doesn't feel they are sufficient for protecting GLBT players, because they went to the extra step of completely banning the words "gay" and "lesbian". if the existing tools ARE sufficient, then why do they need to restrict speech on the matter?

"what happened to equality?" things aren't equal in the first place. that's the point.

Not completely. Although you aren't exactly oppressed either. If you think about it other than the whole marriage deal (which is slowly getting changed) the only other time you face discrimination is when you don't play by the rules set in place. You may not like or agree with "don't ask, don't tell" but when you decide that it is a stupid rule and I don't have to listen well you face the consequences. As for the oppression you may face walking down the street it does happen to more than just your group. If you get 2 or 3 people together who are the same that gives them power. Then when they see someone who they percieve to be different there is a chance they will attack. That is sorry to say human nature.

actually, i'm not oppressed because i'm not gay.

i'm not sure why you keep bringing up consequences. of course there are consequences and people break the rules face them. that has nothing to do with the fact that the rule itself is misguided.

it may well be human nature for the majority to oppress minorities (although i don't think so), but that doesn't any minority should have to put up with it.

stated like that, i don't have a problem with statements like that as long they don't violate microsoft's other policies against hate speech or obscene speech. i just hope they realize they're baiting people into political arguments.

Which is what MS was trying to avoid in the first place for the benefit of the WHOLE COMMUNITY. Although we can't have that because you need to tell everyone no matter what the situation. Or is it because they aren't catering to your special interests that cause the problem?

sorry, my fault for trying to use sarcasm on the internet.

look, people can decide for themselves whether they want to get involved in an argument or not. i don't see why microsoft has any business interest in interfering with that decision.

 

[cavsfan69]

just go army style in games with the "don't ask don't tell" policy.

/shitstorm

 

[cobra_ky]

just go army style in games with the "don't ask don't tell" policy.

/shitstorm

"don't ask don't tell" is a completely seperate shitstorm entirely.

 

[squid5580]

For lack of better words (and no offense ladies since my wife hates it when I tell her to do this but) MAN UP!!

But if I man up and find them to beat the shit out of them a la Jay and Silent Bob, they'll sue me.

Right because someone calling you a name gives you the right to beat them up?

Whether it does or it doesn't, that's what it means to "MAN UP!!" as you put it.

No it means stop your crying. See how a word or phrase can mean different things to different people?

 

[squid5580]

I think this is where alot of people have come to misunderstand some of what I have been saying. I don't care what side you are on. It doesn't matter to me if you are gay, straight or bi. She broke the rules and it seems like everone is saying well it is ok cuz the rule is unfair. That doesn't make it ok to do what she did. If you want to be able to put I am a homosexual in your profile I don't care. If you are allowed I still don't care. Thinking it is ok to break the rules and get away with it because you are a "minority" is when I step back and ask WTF?? What happened to equality?

Um--you've missed everyone's point. Everyone's point is ABOUT equality--equality of enforcement. The CoC reads:

Don't create a gamertag or motto that other users may be offended by, this includes comments that look, sound like, stand for, hint at, abbreviate, or insinuate any of the following: profane words/phrases, topics or content of a sexual nature, hate speech (including but not limited to racial, ethnic, or religious slurs), illegal drugs/controlled substances, or illegal activities.

Yet every other tag I see ends in "420."

And speaking of equality if you are allowed to put your sexual preference in your profile then wouldn't the same be allowed for the anti gay group?

Um, no--being gay does not mean being anti-heterosexual. And of course, being anti-gay does not necessarily mean being heterosexual.

since they could argue being anti gay is just as much a part of them as being gay is to a homosexual?

They could, but they'd fail. Being gay is a sexual orientation. Being anti-gay is a political stance. You can be both at the same time, which is why while taking an anti-gay political stance in the Senate, being gay can cause you to take a wide stance in a Minnesota airport restroom.

So report every 420 you see if it offends you that much. Just like everyone who was offended by her motto or profile did to her. You can't use that if you aren't proactive about it yourself.

And how do you figure that a religious person who goes to church every sunday believes (because that is what thier doctrine teaches) being gay is wrong is a political viewpoint? Don't confuse using something that is used as a political platform as being just about the politics.

Btw you missed the most entire part of the C of C as to why putting this in your motto or profile being frowned upon

The Code of Conduct outlines the rules that you need to follow to ensure that Xbox.com, Xbox LIVE, and Games for Windows - LIVE are fun for everyone.

Unless of course not being able to state your sexual orientation takes away from your fun, that you can't play an online game with a group of strangers without all of them knowing what sex you prefer, there is no case.

And why not mention this:

Don't create a gamertag or motto that references controversial religious topics, notorious people, organizations, or sensitive current or historical events that may also be considered inappropriate.

Your right to offend me by your sexuality trumps my right to hold true to my religious beliefs (well if it did and if I had any) which I am not allowed to state without fearing the banhammer? Could I not use "my religious beliefs are a part of me, of who I am."

And before anyone says Well no one ever got banned for saying they are Christian let me clear that up. No one that you are aware of has been banned for saying they are straight or thier religious beliefs. Doesn't mean it has never happened. It just means the media never picked up the story cuz it isn't as interesting as a lesbian getting banned for the same thing.

Oh and please explain to me the difference between the lesbian situation and this one

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/7.126375?page=1

other than the obvious. A rule was broken (and we don't even know what he did) yet the responses are completely different because he has a mental disability and is not about sexual orientation. Exactly what I have been saying all along.

 

[squid5580]

For lack of better words (and no offense ladies since my wife hates it when I tell her to do this but) MAN UP!!

But if I man up and find them to beat the shit out of them a la Jay and Silent Bob, they'll sue me.

Right because someone calling you a name gives you the right to beat them up?

Whether it does or it doesn't, that's what it means to "MAN UP!!" as you put it.

No it means stop your crying. See how a word or phrase can mean different things to different people?

That's a pretty silly meaning though. Real men cry, and then beat up the people who made them cry.

Unless of course they're living in a jurisdiction where they've given up that right of retaliation for the greater good of living in a peaceful civil society.

I am pretty sure that is why it is called "an expression". As in not to be taken literally.

 

[squid5580]

So report every 420 you see if it offends you that much. Just like everyone who was offended by her motto or profile did to her. You can't use that if you aren't proactive about it yourself.

There's no way that many 420s can slip through the cracks whether people are reporting them or not.

And how do you figure that a religious person who goes to church every sunday believes (because that is what thier doctrine teaches) being gay is wrong is a political viewpoint?

Whatever word you want to use for it--doctrine, political viewpoint, etc.--it's not a sexual orientation.

Btw you missed the most entire part of the C of C as to why putting this in your motto or profile being frowned upon

The Code of Conduct outlines the rules that you need to follow to ensure that Xbox.com, Xbox LIVE, and Games for Windows - LIVE are fun for everyone.

Unless of course not being able to state your sexual orientation takes away from your fun,
that you can't play an online game with a group of strangers without all of them knowing what sex you prefer, there is no case.

I can put where I'm from in my profile--it "takes away from your fun", "you can't play an online game with a group of strangers without all of them knowing" where you live?

So that can't be "why putting this in your motto or profile being frowned upon."

And why not mention this:

Don't create a gamertag or motto that references controversial religious topics, notorious people, organizations, or sensitive current or historical events that may also be considered inappropriate.

And then they go out and give you European soccer uniforms for your avatar. EPIC FAIL!

Right they should just ban soccer. No more Fifa for you. Either they hold your hand, take away the voice chat, and take everything offline or set a few guidelines to try and maintain peace. If you start getting harassing messages because of a tool that they allow by all means save the messages and report it. If you can't handle name calling for whatever reason they are insulting you the internet is not a place you should be. If you get harrassing messages because you feel it is more important to you to ignore the code of conduct and disobey it whose fault is that? The one thing I do know is you can't blame MS when they are the ones who were trying to protect you. Just like if someone says "don't touch it is hot" then you touch it and get burned. Are you then going to blame the person who was heating it? I guess it is easier than admitting you made a mistake but it doesn't make it any less of your own stupid fault.

And 420 could easily be argued that it is the number before 419 and after 421. Just because it was used back in the 60s as CB talk to mean something else doesn't make it any less of a number. Try explaining lesbian so it doesn't mean what everyone knows it means.

 

[squid5580]

I am pretty sure that is why it is called "an expression". As in not to be taken literally.

This leads me to my second beef. The sensitivity. I am in no way condoning racial/homophobic slurs. Nor am I saying I approve of people attacking and insulting each other on XBL using those kinds of words (I have no problems calling you a dick or an asshole if you kill me) but there is a line and the racial/homophobic slurs are across said line. On that note if someone calls you that you can't throw down your mic and cry about it. Then go to your nearest forum and accuse the entire XBL community of being a bunch of bigots. For lack of better words (and no offense ladies since my wife hates it when I tell her to do this but) MAN UP!!

That looked like a pretty literal usage to me. Are we to interpret all your "beefs" on here as non-literal, as only expressions?

That is your right to take whatever I say as however you want. I suppose it would be alot easier for you if you did though. Then you could claim victory by taking everything I say out of context and twist it to fit your arguement.

Although how would a woman man up without needing surgery and years of psychological battering I don't understand.

 

[squid5580]

Right they should just ban soccer. No more Fifa for you. Either they hold your hand, take away the voice chat, and take everything offline or set a few guidelines to try and maintain peace.

Well, that's what we're discussing: what those guidelines should be. Why do you think XBL should hold the hands of homosexuals?

The one thing I do know is you can't blame MS when they are the ones who were trying to protect you.

But your argument is that people should deal with harassment just by hitting the mute button. You should be arguing against this kind of hand-holding. Are you saying gays can't "MAN UP!"?

And 420 could easily be argued that it is the number before 419 and after 421.

And gay69bareback could easily be argued to be a happy equestrian born on the 4th of July.

Like Dennis Miller once mocked: "that's not a swatstika--that's a plus sign doing a cartwheel."

Try explaining lesbian so it doesn't mean what everyone knows it means.

She's a big fan of the isle of Lesbos.

Shouldn't lesbos be considered just as derogatory as fag when used in a context like the one you are using it as?

Not arguing the rest since there is nothing to argue. If you can convince MS that is what it means then you got every right to use it.