EA Tweaking Mass Effect 3 to Appeal to Wider Market

[The.Bard]

I'm talking about the designers, not the programmers. And I know it sounds like an off-the-cuff statement, but that's the feeling I got all through playing mass effect one, two, all the DLC, and trying kotor and the dragon ages. It seems like they're just guessing at stuff and hoping it works, with no cleverness or understanding of what would make a great game mechanic. Like in kotor (whichever version it was that I played) the combat was the d20 system ripped straight from DnD, and it wouldn't suprise me if the game was using a random number from 1 to 20 to figure out combat (keep in mind I only played for an hour). In ME2, you can zoom with the SR and pause with power wheel to line up perfect shots every time; this is what Yahtzee meant about enemies "whistling jaunty tunes through the holes in their heads", and it's completely game-breaking. You also have the planet scanning mechanic. In ME1 you have the mako that drives like shit. In DA2 (played demo only) you have the the combat that is just button mashing, and they make the players write their own AI script (so maybe I blame the programmers a bit).

To me, at least, it seems like they just start with the 'Bioware game' template (story, characters, choices, inventory), imitate other game mechanics, and guess at what they should add. When I play ME1, I get the feeling that it wasn't designed by clever geniuses, but by some really lucky monkeys with a whiteboard.

I just can't play a Bioware game, and imagine a game designer that really knew what he or she was doing.

Thanks for explaining your point; I can see where you're going now.

I don't want to make assumptions, so correct me if I'm wrong here, but it sounds more like the design decisions they made just don't apply to YOUR style of gaming. I mean, you can call it stupid across the board, but then you're basically saying that everyone who likes the stupidly designed game is stupid, and that's a barrel of monkeys you don't want to open, Shirley. (Can I call you Shirley? Thanks.)

Bioware's first few games were D&D licenses, so when KotoR came out, that's the system they decided to go with. It wasn't stupid, per se; it was an easy way to implement an engine that a) they knew really well and b) fans would more likely understand off the cuff. (Result: GotY)

Me, I hate the Metal Gear Solid series. With a passion. The anime styling, the insanely unrealistic enemies, the hour long cut scenes... you name it, I hate it. But I'll readily concede their design decisions aren't stupid; they just don't apply to the style of game I like.

If you hate it, Chuck, you hate it, there's certainly no pleasing every style of gamer, but I would point out that "really lucky monkeys on a whiteboard" are not capable of designing a heavily lauded game series like Mass Effect. Also, a small point of clarification on DA2... most of the internet doesn't seem to realize this, but the ME team is different than the DA team. Sure, they talk to each other at lunch or whatever, but you can't judge Mass Effect by what happens in Dragon Age.

Not every game is for everyone, so it's cool if you hate it, but I would encourage you to at least consider that the mechanics you think are dog manure may just be somebody else's jam on toast.

Ayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy-men!

 

[deathbydeath]

Anytime someone working on the game says "shooter-meets-RPG", read it as: 'a shooter with dialog options'.

As if Mass Effect 2 wasn't dumbed down and turned into a first person shooter enough.

hey, it's still in third-person, right?

op:
when they take out the dialogue options, i called it.

Anytime someone working on the game says "shooter-meets-RPG", read it as: 'a shooter with dialog options'.

As if Mass Effect 2 wasn't dumbed down and turned into a first person shooter enough.

hey, at least its in third person, right?

OP: if the dialogue options are removed, i called it!

 

[i64ever]

When did RPG's stop being a genre of their own? Now we just have RPG elements in other genres. Its very sad, like a childhood friend moving away.

 

[Saviordd1]

God damn it EA, why did you NEED to get your hands into Bioware like this.

I'm gonna go cry now

 

[EchetusXe]

I agree with the masses of people who are worried about the developers dumbing down the game for the masses. Seriously, they told us that they were going to make us all happy by dropping the MAKO, only to replace it with the most boring task in the history of gaming. Now, they are planning to drop the special powers in favour of FPS'ery in order to appeal to...

CAPTCHA: kinglis masters

well said CAPTCHA, the hordes of absolute kinglis masters that only buy the same type of game over and over again?

 

[Dr. Crawver]

...not sure I like the sound of this, diluting it

 

[Ironic Pirate]

Can anybody give me an example of when "tweaking to appeal to a wider market" did not mean "dumbing down"?

Precisely.


FFS, the shooter crowd already has their CoDs and Halos. Eight out of ten big budget games are already aimed at the racist homophobe teenager crowd. Come on EA, DICE are already working on Battlefield 3, and your MoH reboot sold pretty well - how about you leave us people who can read and write and have college degrees some games, too?

Is that really too much to ask?

Oh, wonderful generalization there. Mass Effect was such an incredibly complicated game, wasn't it? All those equations you had to solve, and you had to learn four separate alien languages...

Oh right, that was a different, non-existent game. Congratulations, you enjoy a game that is slightly more cerebral then a different one. The Mensa application came packaged in the manual, but you're probably already a member.

 

[Himmelgeher]

Really? BioWare "fans" acting like a bunch of entitled little shits? I'm am truly and genuinely shocked.
In all seriousness, I have the following to say;
-Call of Duty and Halo are not scourges upon the Earth. The Halo games are all excellent (with the exceptions of Halo 3 and Halo Wars, which doesn't count because Bungie didn't make it), as were Call of Duty 2 and 4. While the Treyarch games have pretty much always sucked, and the multiplayer in every game left something (read: not sucking) to be desired , the games were never "bad" until MW2. Just because the fandom sucks doesn't mean the games are bad. By that logic I could say Portal and Half-Life 2 are the worst games ever made.
-BioWare have already stated that ME3 will be closer to ME in terms of RPG-ness then ME2 was, because the backlash was so severe. So what's more likely oh Wise and Powerful forum members; that EA is gutting the UI and balancing, not to mention making BioWare go back on everything they've said thus far just 7 months before release to bring in a small number of (apparently) functionally retarded drooling CoD fanboys, or that it was simply an excuse for why the game had been delayed so that investors don't freak out?
-Many people seem to be under the impression that it's being "dumbed down" for consoles and are infringing on the glorious PC-gaming master race. News Flash: Mass Effect was, is, and always will be a console game first and foremost. The PC versions are ports of the 360 version. Deal with it. Sure, the graphics might be slightly better, but that's only if you're willing to upgrade your rig approximately every 6.5 seconds.

 

[SovietSecrets]

I'll take ME 3 is still gonna piss off and make people cry for $300 Alex. Yet I will enjoy it, because more options to talk does not make a better game.

 

[duchaked]

annnd the very first comment shows just what kind of dross the...sigh never mind

Mass Effect 2 made the shooting mechanics WORK, and seriously...Mass Effect 1's menus were just horrible and made it hard to deal with a messy inventory of weapons (something I enjoyed doing in Fallout 3)

admittedly people will still complain their heads off because they feel like it's just a FPS game with dialogue, but if ME 1 and 2 are the split between getting it right and wrong in terms of RPG elements...then I'm inclined to side with the game that played smoother and removed the horrible inventory system

on the bright side, if BioWare is using this extra time to bring back weapons inventory albeit with proper menus and execution...hey that could be a good thing? why assume appealing to a wider market means abandoning RPG fans lol (ok so the FPS market is bigger but hey still if the whining of people are any indication it seems like EA will get more sales winning BACK RPG fans than trying to grab twitchy CoD fans who don't have time to talk to NPCs haha)

 

[FieryTrainwreck]

Remember traditional sequelitis? Used to be companies would try to cash in on successful games with dozens of moderately expanded/improved sequels every year. I remember hating the lack of daring and innovation. I remember thinking: "this can't get any worse".

But now, it's somehow worse. Now it's all about taking successful games, massively altering them to attract some perceived (and possibly imaginary) untapped audience, and hoping the established fans are too nostalgic/loyal to notice you're giving them the middle finger.

I'm fucking done with BiowarEA. I thought the DA2 backlash coupled with shitty DA2 sales might snap them back into place, but I was quite mistaken. Apparently they want to run themselves into the ground with speculative investment, which is really par for the course these days.

Edit: and of course people are buying it as more "change = innovation, dummy!" and "streamlining makes every better, derp!" I'm kinda tired of trying not to call you guys naive.

Yes, it's possible to broaden appeal without dumbing down. Yes, it's possible for change to result in creative and positive innovation.

I guarantee you that is not what's happening here. This is homogenization. This is all games turning into the same linear action crap. This is people in a boardroom looking at Halo and CoD sales and wondering why the hell anyone's trying to make games any other way. If you're okay with that, you've got quite the stellar run of same-y bullshit ahead of you. Enjoy.

This is said to people who aren't even likely to play the game; They're investors.

Hey look! Someone hit upon the fundamental bullshit of incorporation of creative industries!

 

[Programmed_For_Damage]

BioWare's Casey Hudson may have previously stated [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/109207-BioWare-Mass-Effect-3-Combat-Perfected] that the combat in Mass Effect 3 would be the best in the series, but that doesn't automatically mean that it will come at the expense of the RPG side.

Now you see, this is getting harder and harder to believe.

Absolutely. Bloody EA have a reputation of compromising the integrity of a game in order to turn a few extra bucks. Why did they have to get their greedy mits on Bioware?

 

[c.lavranos]

I got into Mass Effect because I enjoy RPG's and the prospect of a grand space opera was one I could jump into with both feet. A core element of rpgs is the experience and cusomization that goes into combat, beyond the selection of a weapon or turning on a shield - if I wanted to play a shooter I'd go with Gears of War.

Count me out.

 

[northeast rower]

FUUUUCK YOOOOUUU EA

I don't want ME3 simplified like the second one was, that just got ridiculous.

 

[BabyRaptor]

the number of people bitching about a game that isn't even finished yet is staggering, no matter what they do people will still play and enjoy the game, its a company that wants to make money, if they try and cater to a handful of people they arnt going to be in business for long (especially seeing as people are going to ***** regardless)

A handful? Yeah, a "handful" of people made ME1 so successful that they made 2, and 2 so successful that they're making 3.

 

[Epic Fail 1977]

I'm really struggling to see how anyone (investor or player) could see "shooter meets RPG" as any kind of change to the Mass Effect franchise. The first two games both fit that description, so exactly what is being "tweaked" here?

To be honest, it sounds to me like they're spouting BS to the investors who, presumably, don't know shit. They needed more time so they've pitched the problem to the investors as "we need more time so we can turn ME3 into a game that will appeal to a broader market" when what they really mean is "we need more time so we can make ME3 the way we always planned to make it".

 

[Odoylerules360]

-snip-

Thanks for explaining your point; I can see where you're going now.

I don't want to make assumptions, so correct me if I'm wrong here, but it sounds more like the design decisions they made just don't apply to YOUR style of gaming. I mean, you can call it stupid across the board, but then you're basically saying that everyone who likes the stupidly designed game is stupid, and that's a barrel of monkeys you don't want to open, Shirley. (Can I call you Shirley? Thanks.)

Bioware's first few games were D&D licenses, so when KotoR came out, that's the system they decided to go with. It wasn't stupid, per se; it was an easy way to implement an engine that a) they knew really well and b) fans would more likely understand off the cuff. (Result: GotY)

Me, I hate the Metal Gear Solid series. With a passion. The anime styling, the insanely unrealistic enemies, the hour long cut scenes... you name it, I hate it. But I'll readily concede their design decisions aren't stupid; they just don't apply to the style of game I like.

If you hate it, Chuck, you hate it, there's certainly no pleasing every style of gamer, but I would point out that "really lucky monkeys on a whiteboard" are not capable of designing a heavily lauded game series like Mass Effect. Also, a small point of clarification on DA2... most of the internet doesn't seem to realize this, but the ME team is different than the DA team. Sure, they talk to each other at lunch or whatever, but you can't judge Mass Effect by what happens in Dragon Age.

Not every game is for everyone, so it's cool if you hate it, but I would encourage you to at least consider that the mechanics you think are dog manure may just be somebody else's jam on toast.

Ayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy-men!

The only thing I am calling stupid is moving Mass Effect away from what makes it unique.
I don't hate the design decisions either, in fact, most of them are pretty good (except in DA2). What gives me that 'monkeys and a whiteboard' feeling, though, is that they could easily have been a lot better.

I definitely DON'T hate the game; I wouldn't be talking about Mass Effect if I didn't think it is one of the best franchises out there and definitely worth my time (over 200 hours of it). I know the mechanics are someone's jam on toast, but they could have been someone's Branston pickle on toast.

It's hard to explain that feeling; they have a formula that reliably makes good games, but it just doesn't feel like there's an understanding of why any of it works so well.

And don't call me Shirley.

 

[carpathic]

Mass Effect 1 was a great game, but a lot of the RPG elements were just massively tedious. Mass Effect 2 is such a better game because most of the tediousness was stripped out. I can't even play ME 1 anymore because it frustrates me so much in comparison to ME 2. So I'll reserve my judgement until I see ME 3 in action.

This is exactly 100% true and excatly what I disliked about ME 2. They took out the inventory management, and most of the RP. Now it just seems they are making the creatures bigger and badder, rather than just continuing the awesome story that is already there, with the already spooky creatures that exist. I mean the flaming abomination already did not make sense, now one has cannon grafted on it???