Early Dragon Age 2 reviews were manipulated: Press insider spills all.

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AceAngel

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May 12, 2010
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It's OK to like a game that many people didn't like.

However, it's doesn't make it OK to 'defend' a game that took about 3 steps back for each step forward. Just because something was fine, doesn't make it void of criticism. Games are supposed to move forward and evolve, not digress like the Great Depression every-time there is a sequel.
 

Hitman Dread

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Arno Vercammen said:
Like the game or not the review I saw was a little too positive. I don't think it helps credibility on this matter when, at the time, the escapist was covered in DA2 advertisments.
They were also covered in Rift advertisements, but that certainly didn't cause them to kiss Rift's ass.
 

Pat8u

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kman123 said:
MiracleOfSound said:
Arno Vercammen said:
And I'm looking at you Escapist.
The Escapist's most watched series, ZP, tore Dragon Age apart.

The early reviewer clearly loved the game, as did I and a whole lot of other people. I even had someone accuse me of getting paid by EA to make the Dragon Age song... these conspiracy theories are chuckle worthy and the truth is simply that not everyone hated DA2 like the angry shouters on Metacritic.
Tehnically Yahtzee tears EVERYTHING apart...Except for Portal.

I'm intrigued to what he thinks about the sequel.
also he did not hate Minecraft
 

Virgil

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1) You should try reading the same thing in English, as the original source was probably originally translated to German, editorialized, and then translated back to English. Probably badly. A similar take on that same topic is here [http://dubiousquality.blogspot.com/2011/04/storm.html], and it's demonstrating how major game publishers are circumventing the games press.

2) Suggesting that we sell our reviews will get you banned from our site. I want to be very, very clear on this. We do not, never have, and never will sell our content. It has been suggested and demanded in the past, and we have lost ad campaigns and advertisers because of it. If you don't agree with one of our reviews, well, too damn bad. You can state your points of disagreement, or you can go away, but if you decide to attack our integrity on our own site, you're going to be shown the door.

It is the gravest insult you can give to all of our staff and contributors, and it's not going to be tolerated.
 

tlozoot

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I certainly did find the DA2 review on this site to be overly gushy and positive. I think Tito even called it one of the best looking games he's seen in a long time...which I think can be described as objectively wrong.

I wouldn't go as far as to say that the escapist is crooked, and instead of looking at the publication as a whole I think it pays to look at the person doing the reviewing. I'm personally not a fan of Greg Tito's reviews.

Just remember that every single review is one persons subjective experience with the game - it represents just one star in a much larger, more complicated constellation.
 

Giest4life

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Feb 13, 2010
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I actually really, really liked the game. The only thing that really pissed me off where those recycled coastal and cavern environments and the fact that I had to capture a blood mage ever second mission.

I think it's just like every other industry: ever read the blurbs on the back of Twilight....yeah.

Virgil said:
1) You should try reading the same thing in English, as the original source was probably originally translated to German, editorialized, and then translated back to English. Probably badly. A similar take on that same topic is here [http://dubiousquality.blogspot.com/2011/04/storm.html], and it's demonstrating how major game publishers are circumventing the games press.

2) Suggesting that we sell our reviews will get you banned from our site. I want to be very, very clear on this. We do not, never have, and never will sell our content. It has been suggested and demanded in the past, and we have lost ad campaigns and advertisers because of it. If you don't agree with one of our reviews, well, too damn bad. You can state your points of disagreement, or you can go away, but if you decide to attack our integrity on our own site, you're going to be shown the door.

It is the gravest insult you can give to all of our staff and contributors, and it's not going to be tolerated.
Ouch!
 

Pat8u

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you know what I liked about Da2 the charaters and the story was not to bad ethier
 

Weaver

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Apr 28, 2008
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Publishers have been doing this for a few years now. I thought everyone knew this which is why you're not supposed to pay attention to big-box reviews from sites like IGN.
 

Weaver

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Virgil said:
1) You should try reading the same thing in English, as the original source was probably originally translated to German, editorialized, and then translated back to English. Probably badly. A similar take on that same topic is here [http://dubiousquality.blogspot.com/2011/04/storm.html], and it's demonstrating how major game publishers are circumventing the games press.

2) Suggesting that we sell our reviews will get you banned from our site. I want to be very, very clear on this. We do not, never have, and never will sell our content. It has been suggested and demanded in the past, and we have lost ad campaigns and advertisers because of it. If you don't agree with one of our reviews, well, too damn bad. You can state your points of disagreement, or you can go away, but if you decide to attack our integrity on our own site, you're going to be shown the door.

It is the gravest insult you can give to all of our staff and contributors, and it's not going to be tolerated.
This is one of the many reasons this site is so great.

Didn't Russ to a big piece on how journalistic integrity in the gaming press is failing as well? It was an interesting window into the world.
 

Pat8u

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Booze Zombie said:
I'm honestly not surprised, though. Those game companies have families to feed, regardless of if .
I declare you smartest person on the internet

OT: while the escapist has no corruption Publishers and Devs all have/families/pets/themselves/loved ones to feed they are not the money grabbing demons you picture them as they are people too.(Also to all those people out there who thinks its cool to make fun of developers stop making fun of gabe newell I am sick of seeing vids about his weight who cares if he has weight issues)

Back to Quote: Note none of what I just said except for that you are the smartest person on the internet is related to your post

Captcha:ucantun school (You can't undo School?)
 

tlozoot

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Feb 8, 2010
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AC10 said:
Virgil said:
1) You should try reading the same thing in English, as the original source was probably originally translated to German, editorialized, and then translated back to English. Probably badly. A similar take on that same topic is here [http://dubiousquality.blogspot.com/2011/04/storm.html], and it's demonstrating how major game publishers are circumventing the games press.

2) Suggesting that we sell our reviews will get you banned from our site. I want to be very, very clear on this. We do not, never have, and never will sell our content. It has been suggested and demanded in the past, and we have lost ad campaigns and advertisers because of it. If you don't agree with one of our reviews, well, too damn bad. You can state your points of disagreement, or you can go away, but if you decide to attack our integrity on our own site, you're going to be shown the door.

It is the gravest insult you can give to all of our staff and contributors, and it's not going to be tolerated.
This is one of the many reasons this site is so great.

Didn't Russ to a big piece on how journalistic integrity in the gaming press is failing as well? It was an interesting window into the world.
He did, and he tends to tweet about review embargoes on Twitter as well.
 

Flamey

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Apr 7, 2010
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Virgil said:
1) You should try reading the same thing in English, as the original source was probably originally translated to German, editorialized, and then translated back to English. Probably badly. A similar take on that same topic is here [http://dubiousquality.blogspot.com/2011/04/storm.html], and it's demonstrating how major game publishers are circumventing the games press.

2) Suggesting that we sell our reviews will get you banned from our site. I want to be very, very clear on this. We do not, never have, and never will sell our content. It has been suggested and demanded in the past, and we have lost ad campaigns and advertisers because of it. If you don't agree with one of our reviews, well, too damn bad. You can state your points of disagreement, or you can go away, but if you decide to attack our integrity on our own site, you're going to be shown the door.

It is the gravest insult you can give to all of our staff and contributors, and it's not going to be tolerated.
I don't get 1).

Are you suggesting this is not an original piece? You can state your points of disagreement, or you can go away, but if you decide to attack the integrity of a fellow gaming magazine, you're going to be shown the door.

It is the gravest insult you can give to all of their staff and contributors, and it's not going to be tolerated.

I kid, I kid. I love this site.
 

MiracleOfSound

Fight like a Krogan
Jan 3, 2009
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Di said:
I don't really give a fuck about Dragon Age 2 or whether reviewers were paid to make the reviews, but The Escapists review of the game had a fair share of inconsistensies that points at it being either poorly written or, as a matter of fact, paid. I'd link you that thread which pointed it all out, but considering your posts tone, you probably won't see reason anyways.
When engaged in a discussion, it does not help your case when you stonewall the other party while simultaneously ruling out the possibility of them responding in a reasonable manner.
 

DSK-

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I've definitely lost pretty much all of my faith in Bioware thanks to DA2, it was lacklustre although there were some great aspects of the game that I won't deny. I'm definitely not trusting an Escapist review again though, it made the game to be a step forward in RPG's and it was if Varric himself added his own thoughts on the game. I'll stick to GameTrailers instead.

OT: Despite already knowing this, it still annoys me when reading that.
 

Therumancer

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Nov 28, 2007
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This is a big deal to be honest, and it is something that needs to be addressed. Simply put the producers are investing tons of cash into these games to pay what the developers demand, and even if they produce a sub-standard product, the producers still want to make money, or at least recoup as much of their investment back as they can. As a result they want anything their money is involved in to be promoted as the best thing since sliced bread. When they can control access to information, honesty is not going to be a major part of their thinking. It also doesn't help that those sponsoring reviewers are usually dependant on ad revenues from the game industry to make their money.

Right now I think there is increasing dis-satisfaction with the game industry and the quality of games. This is why we're starting to see situations where paid, professional reviewers, and actual fan reception are leading to very differant ratings with big titles.

A lot of people seem to overlook that gaming is a fairly unique market, in that gamers can be borderline addictive and they want to game. It's sort of like pro-wrestling's old "seven year rule", the quality of what has been produced in the past and recycling doesn't much matter for the guy who wants entertainment right now. There are only so many games on the market at any given time, and someone who is a major shooter "addict" wants his "fix" and if the current game isn't as good as one he already played to death, he's still going to buy it and have more fun than he would watching paint peel. Of course, despite the lowest human denominator getting into the gaming industry, there is still a pretty solid core of "upper level" humanity in gaming, and I think those people are catching on far more than the target demographic for things like Pro-Wrestling. This means that as the gaming industry becomes more corrupt and gears itself to produce and market for the casuals, there is a good part of the audience effectively throwing on the breaks.

The point here is that there is a perception that a game that sells a lot of copies is a GOOD game. This is not the case, especially seeing as those who dislike a game generally have to have bought it and played it (or tried to). What's more for all the complaining, the used game industry means that more people play a game than there are sales, even if a sequel sells more copies than the original that doesn't typically mean a lot, other than the first game was successful, due to blind purchusing, and people who tried the game used and were never part of the initial sales demographic. We for example really have no idea how many people actually played and were fans of say "Mass Effect 1". If you look at all the used copies out there and think that two people might have played for every DVD out there on average, that would seriously change the analysis of how well received a sequel actually was for example. One of the reasons why the gaming industry doubtlessly hates used game sales, isn't just because of the potential money being lost, but because of how important marketing is, and
how badly it scews their statistics.

I'll also say that while the term is overused, "fanboyism" in it's true form has little to do with opinion. Fanboys are people who will defend something based on an ideal or a brand, even if they know it's crap and might even say so under certain circumstances.

As this revolves around Bioware, you'll notice that in a lot of discussions defending games like "Dragon Age 2" and to a lesser degree "Mass Effect 2", the company and it's past glories come up a whole lot. People will say they had fun with the game, or refute specific complaints (or try to) no matter how ridiculous it seems, but rarely do you see much in the way of people talking about how great the gameplay actually was. There has been pretty much NOONE that actually thought that enemies spawning in waves in "Dragon Age 2" was a good move, or that recycling the enviroments was a great idea. Typically in response you have fanboys who will defend the company, and perhaps talk about the writing and cinematics (which are differant from gaming) but even the fans tend to talk around the actual experience of playing th egame in *most* if not all cases. There is a lot of truth to this when it comes to "Mass Effect 2" as well, though to a lesser extent.

Part of what drives fanboyism is looking at what a company has done in the past, and is capable of, and the hope that if they defend a company they will again go back to their old, better way of development. The idea being that if they actually let a company fall or a product fail, that it can go out of business, and they would be left with nothing. With certain under produced generes like single player RPGs, going with bad games is seem as better than going with *no* games as well, if they force a developer to change entirely.

Of course this is counter productive since fanboy praise simply encourages companies to continue down the wrong path.

There is no simple solution to the issue of course, since every bad product that gets marked as a bad product and sells accordingly, hurts a developer getting production dollars. Every bad game that sells however leads to only more of the same getting green lit.

Time will tell what happens, but the industry as an entire model is a complete mess, and it's relation with the media is a big part of what is fueling that. Not wanting honest response and controlling information, leads to bad products, which leads to slowly building customer dissatisfaction, and more information control. This is the kind of thing that lead to the collapse of industries, especially surprising ones when someone looks and goes "wait, they were in trouble? The media made it look like they were doing so well, and every one of their products was a gem that was selling like crazy".
 

Booze Zombie

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Patrick Young said:
I declare you smartest person on the internet
I'll be able to beat people to death with my ego if I keep get compliments like this.
Many thanks.

Just to be exceptionally clear with my post, though, I don't support manipulating things like this... but I understand they are done for very human reasons; you can't just fire Bob from accounting because you wanted the truth to be heard on the release day of your big game.
 

Flamey

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Booze Zombie said:
Patrick Young said:
I declare you smartest person on the internet
I'll be able to beat people to death with my ego if I keep get compliments like this.
Many thanks.

Just to be exceptionally clear with my post, though, I don't support manipulating things like this... but I understand they are done for very human reasons; you can't just fire Bob from accounting because you wanted the truth to be heard on the release day of your big game.
Yeah well. Humane reasons or not. EA is a healthy enough company to make sure it's games are good enough when released. DA2 took 1.5 years to make. DAO 5 years. If they gave the development team more time it would have been better. And they wouldn't have to resort to this.

Pathetic.