Ebert Regrets Attack on Gaming
- Thread starter Logan Westbrook
- Start date
Recommended Videos
This is hilarious. Not only does everyone get pissed at Ebert for an opinion on his own blog, but now everyone is either patting him on the head for what they see as "falling in line" or still pissed because it's "not a real apology." Everyone who got all caught up in the Ebert-hate needs to take a step back, look in the mirror and realize what massive tools they are. Go ahead. Take a look.
I'm constantly amazed at the self-important posturing of the gaming community. It's like everyone is constantly looking for something to take personally. There's always some complaint about game features or graphics or controllers... it's no wonder everyone dogpiled Ebert over this. He just made it so easy for the whiners to write long diatribes about their childhood and some cutscene that made them cry. He suggested that maybe everyone's favorite hobby isn't art and we all freaked.
More to the point, Ebert doesn't OWE us anything. He didn't owe anyone an apology or a retraction. If you think he did, screw you.
I'm constantly amazed at the self-important posturing of the gaming community. It's like everyone is constantly looking for something to take personally. There's always some complaint about game features or graphics or controllers... it's no wonder everyone dogpiled Ebert over this. He just made it so easy for the whiners to write long diatribes about their childhood and some cutscene that made them cry. He suggested that maybe everyone's favorite hobby isn't art and we all freaked.
More to the point, Ebert doesn't OWE us anything. He didn't owe anyone an apology or a retraction. If you think he did, screw you.
Thank you! I've been reading this thread hoping someone would say this. Why do gamers feel that they have to be looked upon as being part of the art movement? In a world where art can be a crucifix in a jar of urine or elephant shit thrown on someone elses painting, why do we want our hobby/lifestyle reduced to that? Enjoy your games, people. Don't worry what the upper class snobs think about game and just enjoy them, no matter if you are getting headshots on noobs in MW2, trying to defeat Bowser with Mario or controlling a boy trying to help a girl escape in Ico. If any game you play moves you in any way, then it is doing its job as a piece of interactive media, or (as a compromise to the games=/= "traditional art") Interactive Artwork.V8 Ninja said:
ITT: A lot of petty children dancing around like they've won some great fight, denigrating one of the best critics of our times and, as evidenced by this, one of the better *people* of our times.
And what are you all doing? You're spitting on him because he still doesn't agree with you? Grow the fuck up. The fact that he was able to hear all the opinions of those who didn't agree with his statement, and was able to acknowledge that perhaps they could be right though he personally doesn't think so, means he's far more mature and respectable than any of you.
It's fucking art. Nobody's ever going to agree on what is and what is not art, ever. A pile of dog shit in your yard isn't art, but put it on display in the Lourve and yes, PEOPLE WILL CALL IT ART. And hey, maybe you're in to that sort of symbolic not-art-as-art type of thing, and will call it art. Whatever. I'll still call it shit. Privately, I'll always believe it to not be art, but when confronted by someone who says it *IS*, there's no way for us or any other two people to resolve the disagreement satisfactorily. Because art is undefinable except for being anything that anyone ever refers to as art. Anything more than that is simply a personal opinion.
But, oh yay, the gamers won... a bunch of insecure little twats got so offended that someone who's disinterested in games stating that they're disinterested in games and don't hold them in high regard that they've been going on for weeks about how he's just the devil. oh boy, and now they get to celebrate because he said he's just disinterested in games and doesn't much care if anyone else thinks they're art or not.
way to be total knee-jerk reactionaries with mightily large napoleonic complexes fellas. i'm sure glad to be part of this. hey, maybe if we keep this up, but get even MORE self-righteously angry, we can flatten *ANY AND ALL* opinions that differ from our own! Oh lord that would be AWESOME, people who think differently than me piss me right the hell off.
And what are you all doing? You're spitting on him because he still doesn't agree with you? Grow the fuck up. The fact that he was able to hear all the opinions of those who didn't agree with his statement, and was able to acknowledge that perhaps they could be right though he personally doesn't think so, means he's far more mature and respectable than any of you.
It's fucking art. Nobody's ever going to agree on what is and what is not art, ever. A pile of dog shit in your yard isn't art, but put it on display in the Lourve and yes, PEOPLE WILL CALL IT ART. And hey, maybe you're in to that sort of symbolic not-art-as-art type of thing, and will call it art. Whatever. I'll still call it shit. Privately, I'll always believe it to not be art, but when confronted by someone who says it *IS*, there's no way for us or any other two people to resolve the disagreement satisfactorily. Because art is undefinable except for being anything that anyone ever refers to as art. Anything more than that is simply a personal opinion.
But, oh yay, the gamers won... a bunch of insecure little twats got so offended that someone who's disinterested in games stating that they're disinterested in games and don't hold them in high regard that they've been going on for weeks about how he's just the devil. oh boy, and now they get to celebrate because he said he's just disinterested in games and doesn't much care if anyone else thinks they're art or not.
way to be total knee-jerk reactionaries with mightily large napoleonic complexes fellas. i'm sure glad to be part of this. hey, maybe if we keep this up, but get even MORE self-righteously angry, we can flatten *ANY AND ALL* opinions that differ from our own! Oh lord that would be AWESOME, people who think differently than me piss me right the hell off.
Everyone is reacting so incredibly wrong to this.
People have opinions without all the facts all the time. You do. Yes, you, reading this right now, have some opinion about something and you don't know shit about the subject. People do it with politics all the time. I would almost guarantee that you've thought of some genius solution to the BP oil spill. That's just human nature. He isn't apologizing for his belief. He shouldn't have to. What he's apologizing for is stating his opinion as fact. He SHOULD have kept it to himself, because he doesn't know shit about the genre, but that doesn't mean he can't have that particular opinion.
People have opinions without all the facts all the time. You do. Yes, you, reading this right now, have some opinion about something and you don't know shit about the subject. People do it with politics all the time. I would almost guarantee that you've thought of some genius solution to the BP oil spill. That's just human nature. He isn't apologizing for his belief. He shouldn't have to. What he's apologizing for is stating his opinion as fact. He SHOULD have kept it to himself, because he doesn't know shit about the genre, but that doesn't mean he can't have that particular opinion.
Holy shit... Someone apologized for badmouthing a video game... I... I don't know how to react to this... Is the universe coming to an end?... I'm scared...
But, in all seriousness, good on him. Even if he doesn't agree with the games-are-art standpoint, at least he's apologizing for ignorance. Takes a lot for someone to do that, and I applaud it.
But, in all seriousness, good on him. Even if he doesn't agree with the games-are-art standpoint, at least he's apologizing for ignorance. Takes a lot for someone to do that, and I applaud it.
I STILL SAY WE DISEMBOWEL HIM AND HANG HIS CORPSE AS AN OFFERING TO THE VIDEO GAME GODS.Logan Westbrook said:
Yes....YES! BAHAHAHAHAHAHA
..Naw, I'm tired.LordWalter said:I STILL SAY WE DISEMBOWEL HIM AND HANG HIS CORPSE AS AN OFFERING TO THE VIDEO GAME GODS.Logan Westbrook said:Ebert Regrets Attack on Gaming
Veteran movie critic Roger Ebert says that he was a "fool" for talking about videogames in the first place.
Movie critic Roger Ebert earned scorn from the gaming community with a blog post [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/100062-Ebert-Re-Emphasizes-That-Games-Will-Never-Be-Art] in April that made the claim that games weren't art, and described the examples of "art games," titles like Braid and Flower, as "pathetic." But a few months, and a few thousand comments, down the line, Ebert has written a new post [http://blogs.suntimes.com/ebert/2010/07/okay_kids_play_on_my_lawn.html] saying that while his opinions on videogames haven't changed, he didn't know enough about them to be able to comment.
"I was a fool for mentioning videogames in the first place. I would never express an opinion on a movie I hadn't seen. Yet I declared as an axiom that video games can never be Art. I still believe this, but I should never have said so. Some opinions are best kept to yourself ... My error in the first place was to think I could make a convincing argument on purely theoretical grounds. What I was saying is that video games could not in principle be Art. That was a foolish position to take, particularly as it seemed to apply to the entire unseen future of games. This was pointed out to me maybe hundreds of times. How could I disagree? It is quite possible a game could someday be great Art."
Ebert admits that he has no desire to play videogames, but that he was unable to come up with any definition of art that excluded games, while simultaneously including everything that he loved: "I concluded without a definition that satisfied me. I had to be prepared to agree that gamers can have an experience that, for them, is Art. I don't know what they can learn about another human being that way, no matter how much they learn about Human Nature. I don't know if they can be inspired to transcend themselves. Perhaps they can. How can I say? I may be wrong, but if I'm not willing to play a video game to find that out, I should say so."
It's never easy to say that you were wrong, and it's doubly hard to do it in public as Ebert did. There's a lot of humility on display here, and that deserves a lot of respect.
Source: Kotaku [http://kotaku.com/5577090/roger-ebert-admits-his-mistake?skyline=true&s=i]
Permalink
Yes....YES! BAHAHAHAHAHAHA
We were in a deadlock for years, I don't believe this will ever end. Ebert should of just shut up, Videogames can not be art....then that okay, because we going to go beyond art.
*dejectedly casts Chain-Axe aside*. Ugh. You ruin all my fun. I'm going back to worshipping Khorne. At least HE appreciates me. ='[Dr. wonderful said:..Naw, I'm tired.LordWalter said:I STILL SAY WE DISEMBOWEL HIM AND HANG HIS CORPSE AS AN OFFERING TO THE VIDEO GAME GODS.Logan Westbrook said:Ebert Regrets Attack on Gaming
Veteran movie critic Roger Ebert says that he was a "fool" for talking about videogames in the first place.
Movie critic Roger Ebert earned scorn from the gaming community with a blog post [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/100062-Ebert-Re-Emphasizes-That-Games-Will-Never-Be-Art] in April that made the claim that games weren't art, and described the examples of "art games," titles like Braid and Flower, as "pathetic." But a few months, and a few thousand comments, down the line, Ebert has written a new post [http://blogs.suntimes.com/ebert/2010/07/okay_kids_play_on_my_lawn.html] saying that while his opinions on videogames haven't changed, he didn't know enough about them to be able to comment.
"I was a fool for mentioning videogames in the first place. I would never express an opinion on a movie I hadn't seen. Yet I declared as an axiom that video games can never be Art. I still believe this, but I should never have said so. Some opinions are best kept to yourself ... My error in the first place was to think I could make a convincing argument on purely theoretical grounds. What I was saying is that video games could not in principle be Art. That was a foolish position to take, particularly as it seemed to apply to the entire unseen future of games. This was pointed out to me maybe hundreds of times. How could I disagree? It is quite possible a game could someday be great Art."
Ebert admits that he has no desire to play videogames, but that he was unable to come up with any definition of art that excluded games, while simultaneously including everything that he loved: "I concluded without a definition that satisfied me. I had to be prepared to agree that gamers can have an experience that, for them, is Art. I don't know what they can learn about another human being that way, no matter how much they learn about Human Nature. I don't know if they can be inspired to transcend themselves. Perhaps they can. How can I say? I may be wrong, but if I'm not willing to play a video game to find that out, I should say so."
It's never easy to say that you were wrong, and it's doubly hard to do it in public as Ebert did. There's a lot of humility on display here, and that deserves a lot of respect.
Source: Kotaku [http://kotaku.com/5577090/roger-ebert-admits-his-mistake?skyline=true&s=i]
Permalink
Yes....YES! BAHAHAHAHAHAHA
We were in a deadlock for years, I don't believe this will ever end. Ebert should of just shut up, Videogames can not be art....then that okay, because we going to go beyond art.
At least he admitted that he was not knowledgeable enough on the subject to properly argue his point. On the other hand though he does express my beef with multiple ends;
Ebert: "If you can go through 'every emotional journey available,' doesn't that devalue each and every one of them?"
Ebert: "If you can go through 'every emotional journey available,' doesn't that devalue each and every one of them?"
I didnt really care that he didnt think games are/can be art. Firstly. Its his opinion he can say what he likes. And secondly. What he says will not change the way "I" think of games.
It takes a big man to admit being wrong. I'm glad he realized that making a statement on something you haven't experienced is inappropriate. I hope we all learn to shut our traps on things we have not done but have opinions on. Of course my definition of art is anything (mostly human made) that conveys an emotion or an idea and most definitions I have seen are similar so I think games qualify as art, you can argue bad art that just qualifies, but still I don't see why they have any less ability to convey ideas then any other series of moving images.
I saw the same thing there. I was more of "I can't believe i outed my own rapidly failing relevance!" then an apology.UnableToThinkOfName said:
Anyone can admit to regretting something but he's still never going to apologize. Not that he needs to. I just see it as a good reason to ignore his views on games. Besides he's a movie critic who really cares what he thinks about games.
