Economics in Warhammer

[Canadian Briton]

Hello escapist, I am here to be a complete nerd and talk about somthing that just bugs me (no I'am not linking to tv tropes, but I bet you want to go on it now hah!) In the New Warhammer Fantasy edition and most recent Warhammer Fantasy Empire army book it explicatly tells us wizards of the lore of metal can transmute cheap metals into gold. Of course this should just render the economic system completely f**ked up but it still tells us that the Empire has a good economy and many of the rulers are extremely rich.
So I ask you, do you know how their economic system still works if it is easy for wizards to transmute metal into gold?

 

[gamer_parent]

easy, they use some other currency other than gold.

 

[Canadian Briton]

easy, they use some other currency other than gold.

Yah but if they do that it still raises the question why the empire sends gold hunters to lustria when they can just get a wizard in the college of metal to transmute some lead into gold.

 

[Cody211282]

Maybe it's thay can tell tell what ones are magicked gold and what ones are real gold?

 

[Xaryn Mar]

If I remember correctly from Realms of Sorcery only very few can and it is quite taxing for them (not to mention very likely to attract the curse of Tzeentch (sp?)) so it is not usually done and definitely not in large quantities.
Just because you can doesn't mean you should especially when your life or even worse entire being is at stake (not to mention your college/magic school, the priests of Sigmar would love nothing more than eradicate a mage school and lets not mention what Chaos would do)

 

[Lotet]

Even Balthasar Gelt, Supreme Patriarch of all Wizards of the Empire of Man can't turn common metals to gold permanently, it's more of a cheap trick to get supplies so a lot of people generally don't trust a man dressed in the typical Golden Robes of the Gold Order Wizards.

information obtained from a story of Balthasar who is looking for the Philosophers Stone, you know that thing in Harry Potter and Full Metal Alchemist that turns normal metal to Gold, amoungst other things.

 

[gamer_parent]

well, the only reason they would ever do so is because the gold found by the gold hunters have a different quality than magic gold. Maybe the magic gold, while technically gold, is of the low purity, low quality kind. I'm not actually that well versed in WH lore.

 

[Canadian Briton]

SNIPS FOR THE SNIP GOD, QUOTES FOR THE QUOTE THRONE!

Hmm thats probably it but there was something that kinda made me facepalm in the most recent white dwarf (The New Daemons one) When one guy said "I'd choose to be a Gold wizard for a very simple reason. I'd be rich" You fail economics forever Jervis Johnson.

 

[gamer_parent]

Of course, we could jsut go with the explanation that the WH writers just don't think things through very well.

 

[ForrestDeath]

1. Other Precious metals.
2. Properti count more. (slaves, land, other not so eaasily replicated product, or businesses that make money)
3. Service to the Empire is an unspoken currency. (Reputaion counts way more than anyone thinks and only the little people use money.)

Other ideas of note Gold still maybe cheaper to mine or take than it is to make through alchemical methods.

The US has only been off of the Gold/Silver standard since the 50's(??) as I do have $5 silver ceritificates from the fifties, so we are kinda still playin with this idea of an unbacked note.

 

[Canadian Briton]

Of course, we could jsut go with the explanation that the WH writers just don't think things through very well.

Yeh thats probably about right.

 

[Albino Boo]

The imperial economy suffers from a number troubling deflationary effects. Consider the effect of dragons and their constant hording of gold imposes significant liquidity problems. In addition the empire suffers from a classic balance of payments problem with the dwarfs. The empire is reliant on dwarfs to provide most of the metal which is vital to manufacturing, however they will only except payment in gold and buy very little finished goods. To counter these problems imperial wizards transmute metal into gold to act as quantitative easing mechanism. The amount of gold transmuted is dependent upon the inter bank libor rate which is accurately predicted by imperial seers.


Or the writers just don't care

 

[gamer_parent]

Of course, we could jsut go with the explanation that the WH writers just don't think things through very well.

Yeh thats probably about right.

to be fair though, that's not nearly as fun. The fun is in trying to justify the apparent oversight.

 

[Canadian Briton]

Of course, we could jsut go with the explanation that the WH writers just don't think things through very well.

Yeh thats probably about right.

to be fair though, that's not nearly as fun. The fun is in trying to justify the apparent oversight.

Well that was one of the reasons I made this thread, to make good discussion value.

 

[Chipperz]

I think a large part of "cast spell, get rich" idea in Warhammer is that in the actual setting as a whole (unlike the tabletop game), magic is NEVER something done lightly, as even the slightest screw up can have the caster turned inside out and used as a portal by hordes of daemons, and that's just not worth it to most spellcasters, who are already on the thin line between useful and dead in most nations. It's also why there are actually very few magic items in the world at large - each one is an ancient relic of unimaginable power because noone's stupid enough to try making new ones...

Now, the real question is, in settings where there aren't safeguards, how is there a working economy?

 

[gamer_parent]

which is also why I believe that the currency being used is not gold, but something else.

It's like SoJ thin back in Diablo 2. Everything was friggin' measured in SoJs, but you know what, throughout the whole time I played, I've probably came across 2 at most. On the other hand, I've managed to get easily over dozens of items that were each worth 10 SoJs a pop. It might just be a convenient means of measurement, but in reality, the actual worth of gold might entirely divorced from the actual supply or indeed the usage of gold.

 

[zatzie zombie num666]

wen i hear wizards of the lore of metal i think a mage witha big eltric guitar shooting lightning and fire balls......am i the only one that thinks like this?

ot: id think that the wizards have some sort of law agensent it like if your found makeing gold your exacuted for egsample

 

[Billion Backs]

SNIPS FOR THE SNIP GOD, QUOTES FOR THE QUOTE THRONE!

Hmm thats probably it but there was something that kinda made me facepalm in the most recent white dwarf (The New Daemons one) When one guy said "I'd choose to be a Gold wizard for a very simple reason. I'd be rich" You fail economics forever Jervis Johnson.

It depends on how exclusive said gold wizards are. I mean, if you could be the only one or one of the rare few, you would be pretty rich. If the economic system was stupid and people running it simply didn't care, you could potentially be rich. Sure, it would probably be more like printing out money without any justification (kind of what we're doing right now, considering how the amount of money most nations have and owe being greater then the total worth of, well, anything at all in said country.

I guess what I'm saying, you don't need to have something that's worth anything in order to complete a transaction. You just need someone gullible enough on the other end.

Using a rare anything as a standard makes sense, but seeing how we don't really do that anymore and more or less get by... meh.

The imperial economy suffers from a number troubling deflationary effects. Consider the effect of dragons and their constant hording of gold imposes significant liquidity problems. In addition the empire suffers from a classic balance of payments problem with the dwarfs. The empire is reliant on dwarfs to provide most of the metal which is vital to manufacturing, however they will only except payment in gold and buy very little finished goods. To counter these problems imperial wizards transmute metal into gold to act as quantitative easing mechanism. The amount of gold transmuted is dependent upon the inter bank libor rate which is accurately predicted by imperial seers.


Or the writers just don't care

Also, just that. Your average fiction writer or poet isn't necessarily knowledgeable about anything. And that's why you should be pretty cynical about any moral, idea, or anything being promoted in a fictional novel because the author is as full of shit as any average person, possibly more depending on your location. In the end, it's all about spreading ignorance and stuff.

Just about any fantasy/sci-fi novel with the exceptions of very few have very noticeable flaws that reflect on the knowledge of the writer on whatever subject he's writing about. It doesn't even take much effort to notice complete lack of understanding of politics, economics, and other similar fields in most cases. Sometimes it's handwaved out of the way with a half-assed excuse, sometimes it's just there without a trace of one.

Writers are as lazy and full of shit as anyone else. Especially when it comes to writing into established franchise with some expectations of a niche consumer base.

 

[Swny Nerdgasm]

Maybe it works like the way it was mentioned in David Eddings writings, sure they can turn it into gold, but maybe it costs 2 or more gold pieces for every gold piece they make, therefore rendering it useless as a way to make money