Edge or Edgy: Part Two

[Synnah]

Mobigame provided us a copy of an email, dated May 1, 2009, from Edge Games to David Papazian, in which Edge Games indicates that removing the UK and US application and changing the name of the game wouldn't stop Mobigame from being sued unless Mobigames also agreed to a monetary settlement. This aggressively-worded email is not reflected in the Edge Games Public Statement, nor was it mentioned in our extensive email conversations with Dr. Langdell.

Tim Langdell in 'hiding the facts to make his position look better' shocker!

According to these records, David Papazian did not telephone Edge Games on May 14th between 3:14PM and 4:28PM, as Edge has alleged. The Edge Games Public Statement is thus in contradiction to Mobigame's France Telecom records, and again, Edge has declined to comment on the matter.

Tim Langdell in 'flat-out lying to make his position look better' shocker!

Seriously guys, good work on taking this long to figure out what everyone else already knew, and for wording this article in such a way as to imply 'we weren't wrong, we were just misinformed'. That misinformation goes as far as two outright lies that would surely affect proceedings in a court of law. Like many others above, I'm slightly incredulous that you're still standing by your original stance.

 

[ben---neb]

Sigh. Just shows what happens when you let the government intervene in markets. Without state inducted "trademarks" then Mobigame could publish their work and Edge games could actually try and do somethig productive.

 

[CountCagliostro]

Sigh. Just shows what happens when you let the government intervene in markets. Without state inducted "trademarks" then Mobigame could publish their work and Edge games could actually try and do somethig productive.

Best be trolling. Trademarks are not a "state inducted" anything. They are a judicial measure which are demanded by businesses. They serve two extremely useful functions; protecting a businesses identity and reputation, and allowing customers to make informed choices on purchasing (see: the economic/game theory concept of "peaches and lemons"). Unlike other forms of IP, they have no chilling effect; you can evade a trademark simply by naming your brand/product something else (and, if you're smart, not telling the competition in advance so they trademark that as well).
In short, not only are they demanded by the participants of a free market, but they are essential to its function as they allow some relation to exist between demand and pricing. Also, unlike other forms of intellectual property, their "use it or lose it" nature means that they cannot usually be "sat on" by IP trolls. This case is a relatively rare and unfortunate exception.
In conclusion: Go Mobigames! Make that system work!

 

[HobbesMkii]

Well, I'm thoroughly confused. I was pretty confident The Escapist was going with their seemingly regular move to side with the larger (or possibly more industry-connected) group (I'll bet they get some pretty sweet access to new games from it). But after reading this article, well, I still feel that way, only now they've got a caveat that the other side might have some credence.

I sort of think the trouble here is that the crux of this whole "Is Langdell right?" part is you're actively waiting for Langdell to prove himself right or wrong. That's not how this stuff works. You can't ask people "Are you lying?" and expect them to go "Yes, sorry 'bout that." But here you're offering up to them information which directly contradicts their story and they're not even bothering to deny contradictory evidence. They're declining to comment. Imagine if I said "I think The Escapist is a bunch of EA employees." I'm sure I'd get a bunch of evidence that directly contradicts this (like confirmed work histories). But you got nadda out of them. Hrm. That makes me suspicious. I think it makes you that too, but you just don't want to say it outright. You'll let the article's subtext do that for you, and then that way you won't have to say "We wrote a follow up that expressed support for Mobigame" if Edge Games wins the case. Because you didn't. No one could accuse you of writing that article. But I can accuse you of hedging your bets like it's your last ten dollars in your wallet and you really don't want to be the first guy out at the poker table.

Lastly, I "like" how The Escapist has become a character in this story. It's certainly a story about Edge Games versus Mobigame, but there's that subtle context that says "and we're so important that they actually started coming to us! Isn't that sweet? Look how cool we are!" Kudos to you. But, frankly, that's kinda amateurish. I mean, sure, TIME Magazine does it, but they're not actually a high quality magazine anymore (in the years I've read it, it's steadily declined in depth and quality, but the number of dickwaiving articles has skyrocketed. You can't go two paragraphs in a cover article without finding "As TIME reported in..."). You're better than that, The Escapist. You're fresh and new, and you don't have to resort to this. You can just tell us what Mobigame said. You don't have to add "to us." We know it's to you. You're reporting it after all.

 

[wasalp]

do you know why Mobigame is fighting so hard, because they feel wronged and are french.

 

[whaleswiththumbs]

I think some of those documents are fabricated after the fact. Edge seems like the kind-of company to be the prick about this... Even if they are the technical "victim" its like the man who jumps behind a car in a parking lot to get hit so he can sue and make money off of it.

 

[syndicated44]

Interesting read and interesting situation. I absolutely hate the whole court whatnot of meticulous paperwork and making sure you didnt say something stupid that would ruin your whole case. Must say though you guys really did a good job of explaining all the work that goes into being a journalist and at the same time making a fantastic article!

 

[Grampy_bone]

One thing people on teh internets need to learn is that cease&desist letters and "aggressively worded emails" are essentially wastepaper (or wastebytes if you prefer) and can be safely disregarded. Until a court officer shows up at your house with papers, it's all just BS and posturing. Mobigames have refused to let some Grade A Douche like Tim Langdell threaten them with this nonsense, and they are better for it.

 

[WhiteTigerShiro]

Worth a look:

Chaos Edge, a blog dedicated to TL and his... ongoing efforts.

http://chaosedge.wordpress.com/

Want to see Edge Studios? Behold:

http://chaosedge.wordpress.com/2009/08/25/the-products-of-the-edge-empire/

(Scroll to the bottom.)

A summary of a judgment against EDGE:

http://www.ipo.gov.uk/types/tm/t-os/t-find/t-challenge-decision-results/t-challenge-decision-results-bl?BL_Number=O/337/02

As always, read carefully.

I gotta admit, when I read the article from a couple weeks ago, I thought you'd jumped the gun in demonizing Edge Games and Tim Langdell, but reading those links really puts him back under that light. I will say though, I don't really speak legal, so what is it that we're looking for in that third link?

 

[randommaster]

One thing people on teh internets need to learn is that cease&desist letters and "aggressively worded emails" are essentially wastepaper (or wastebytes if you prefer) and can be safely disregarded. Until a court officer shows up at your house with papers, it's all just BS and posturing. Mobigames have refused to let some Grade A Douche like Tim Langdell threaten them with this nonsense, and they are better for it.

Well, if it's a big company with money and resources to spare, the C%D is a way for them to not uwaste money on legal procedings while still showing that they are aware of what is going on. When it comes from a big company, it's usually them just being "nice" about telling you to stop.

Everybody seems so mad about The Escapist being slghtly late with the news and taking a stance that they disagree with. This shit takes time, and just because you don'r agree with the article doesn't meant it's crap.

Goos job Russ, it's good to see that you all are working hard.

 

[Allan Foe]

Worth a look:
Chaos Edge, a blog dedicated to TL and his... ongoing efforts.
http://chaosedge.wordpress.com/

Want to see Edge Studios? Behold:
http://chaosedge.wordpress.com/2009/08/25/the-products-of-the-edge-empire/
(Scroll to the bottom.)

A summary of a judgment against EDGE:
http://www.ipo.gov.uk/types/tm/t-os/t-find/t-challenge-decision-results/t-challenge-decision-results-bl?BL_Number=O/337/02
As always, read carefully.

examples of what I believe are wilfully fraudulent evidence:
http://www.tigsource.com/pages/edge-games

Ooooh, that's... that's going to take some time to read through. But I'll do my best, yessir!

After reading some of the more informative comments on the linked articles I'm inclined to think that The Escapist should have spent more time with intellectual property law research before saying something like:
"Our own instincts, the feedback from legal experts and the words of Dr. Langdell himself have answered the question of why Edge Games is fighting, and that answer is, in short, because they have a case."

The amount and extent of Langdell-spun misinformation is truly terrifying, but it seem that there could be some mechanisms within the trademark law that can be used against him (find "Alex Whiteside" in the comments [http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/StephenJacobs/20090601/1615/Class_Acts_Or_Not_The_IGDA_Langdell_Capps_and_quotPolicingquot_the_Board.php]) if some of Langdell's most suspicious trademark manipulations are brought to light (basically everything in the link that Shamus provided [http://www.tigsource.com/pages/edge-games]). Mind that I haven't done any personal research on this topic, just starting to read those articles and what I really wanted to say:
This seems like the right time to start interviewing some high-profile IP Law experts, there's enough controversy and material to attract major media attention.

Well I don't know... But "A copyright attorney we reached" definitely won't cut it for "legal experts", that's wilding as much authority as the guy I've refereed to in the first link above.

 

[Alan Au]

Thanks to the Escapist staff for digging a little deeper into this issue. The more I hear about it, the worse it seems to get.

 

[RobF]

Everybody seems so mad about The Escapist being slghtly late with the news and taking a stance that they disagree with. This shit takes time, and just because you don'r agree with the article doesn't meant it's crap.

Goos job Russ, it's good to see that you all are working hard.

I think you misunderstand. I -never- have a problem with articles I merely disagree with. Articles that are misleading, dubious in their claims (see repeated "Langdell has a case" when that's severely in doubt right now) and either ill researched or willingly ignoring any evidence to support a bizarrely contrary opinion - then I have a problem y'know? Especially when it's over something as important as this case is. It might be a few hits to The Escapist, or a drama elsewhere for some of the readership but it -is- important because it might be you or someone else equally undeserving in this position next time Langdell or similar goes on a super happy trademark funtime assault.

Seriously, before you go claiming it's "just a disagreement" with The Escapist's stance - check the evidence, please. Read Shamus' links, read the TIGS thread, read Chaos Edge then tell me, hand on heart that The Escapist are absolutely, utterly and totally right to claim that Langdell has a case and that Mobigame are merely aggrieved and feeling picked on.

The man has produced nothing in 15 years. Almost everything he lays claim to is in doubt from the -actual- IP holders. You cannot possibly say with any conviction that he definitely has a case, yet The Escapist persist. Why? Hits? Stupidity? Naivety? I don't know, but it's ridiculous the conclusions drawn from the evidence.

This article is so far from "a good job" that it really beggars belief. The second consecutive article on the subject to ignore any evidence is not in any way, shape or form a good job. To have evidence presented to you pointing to the contrary then to effectively ignore the evidence in the final paragraph for no obvious reason is not a good job. It's disgraceful journalism.

 

[bjj hero]

Worth a look:

Chaos Edge, a blog dedicated to TL and his... ongoing efforts.

http://chaosedge.wordpress.com/

Want to see Edge Studios? Behold:

http://chaosedge.wordpress.com/2009/08/25/the-products-of-the-edge-empire/

(Scroll to the bottom.)

A summary of a judgment against EDGE:

http://www.ipo.gov.uk/types/tm/t-os/t-find/t-challenge-decision-results/t-challenge-decision-results-bl?BL_Number=O/337/02

As always, read carefully.

Well that was eye opening. Does this guy do anything for a living except sponge off other developers?

Have I misread the judgement on edge vs souledge? It found no case to answer for Namco, so why did they switch to Soulcalibur?

 

[Brett Alex]

I disagree with this article on a fundamental level. Why is The Escapist even trying to attempt objectivity? Don't they know the best journalists base stories on assumption and public opinion?

 

[Synnah]

Have I misread the judgement on edge vs souledge? It found no case to answer for Namco, so why did they switch to Soulcalibur?

Because legal proceedings like that are long-winded and don't really help anyone. That case was actually about the original Soul Edge game, which they renamed to Soul Blade at the start of 1997. They renamed it simply to avoid any grief that Langdell might have thrown their way, and it didn't go to courts until 2002. If they'd actually wanted to release it under the name Soul Edge, they would have legally had to wait until then to do so, and that's assuming the courts didn't rule in favour of Edge Games.

I disagree with this article on a fundamental level. Why is The Escapist even trying to attempt objectivity? Don't they know the best journalists base stories on assumption and public opinion?

Yes, well done. The point people are making is that it's pretty hard to look at the hard evidence (Which is constantly being linked to) and draw the kind of conclusions that The Escapist have. It's not assumption, it seems pretty black-and-white to me.

 

[CraigGrannell]

You're better than that, The Escapist.

I think this article proves they aren't. What a load of absolute fucking horseshit.

Here's what they could have written: "We got it wrong - here's what we now know". Instead, this article hides behind "Ooh, lookie - new evidence!", using content DOZENS of other articles have already published (in many cases months ago), including the huge resource at TIGSource.

What's most depressing is the number of people here taking Escapist's crap at face value, rather than looking elsewhere online and finding genuine investigative journalism and commentary on the subject from the likes of TIGSource, Eurogamer, et al.

Also, gotta love your copyright attorney, Escapist. I'd say anyone telling a company to settle when the disputed mark is in part based on rights infringement and almost certainly partially falsified court documents is an idiot, not a professional.

But if that's so, then why is Mobigame fighting? The answer to that is that they believe they've been treated unfairly.

No, the answer is because they have a legal basis to dispute the mark that is just as strong and Langdell's case for the mark, but, despite all the evidence to show this, you guys are clearly too dumb to realise it or have egos too big to admit you fucked up in the first place. Either way, this would be piss-poor form from a petulant and arrogant teenage blogger. From a supposedly professional publication, it's absolutely shameful. Congratulations, Escapist - you want to be Edge, but you're actually The News of the World.

 

[FROGGEman2]

What an abysmal article.

So much waffle to say so little.

Jeez, stop moaning! No one cares, and, clearly, most of us liked the article.

"...but in the absence of any further evidence contradicting our initial conclusions..."

You are joking, right?

"But if that's so, then why is Mobigame fighting? The answer to that is that they believe they've been treated unfairly. Whether or not that's a sufficient legal basis for their arguments, it's at least understandable."

This whole paragraph is condescending and disingenuous beyond belief.

Please, just admit that you were wrong initially and are falling ever further behind in your attempts to equivocate on this matter. Your attempts at damage limitation are as embarrassingly out of step with the community as your non-Zero Punctuation video programming.

Bah. n00b fail.

When he says "Why is Mobigame fighting" he means, "Oh My God there is a giant shark in front of me and it is backed by a billion lawyers! BUT NO! I SHALL REMAIN!"

When he says, "The answer to that is that they believe they've been treated unfairly. Whether or not that's a sufficient legal basis for their arguments, it's at least understandable." he means, "Well, I make sense, I most certainly have the moral high ground, but do I have the means to fight against a giant sharks lawyers/sucker fish?"

...he isn't giving his opinion, just saying that he thinks that they might not have the legal power here.

And they have changed their opinion since the first article, they apologised for the angriness of the first article in the second article.

...There is no point arguing against your last paragraph, it's just stupid.

How, given the evidence produced and the evidence displayed in the article you can feel comfortable writing that last paragraph in that article is utterly beyond me.

Boggling idiocy of the first order.

What is it with the n00b influx in this thread? o.0
Firstly, the jokes on you, you misunderstood his last paragraph. Secondly, here's a hard-and-fast rule, it you've made roughly 10 posts, then don't insult editors, who have much more experience than you.

Mobigame provided us a copy of an email, dated May 1, 2009, from Edge Games to David Papazian, in which Edge Games indicates that removing the UK and US application and changing the name of the game wouldn't stop Mobigame from being sued unless Mobigames also agreed to a monetary settlement. This aggressively-worded email is not reflected in the Edge Games Public Statement, nor was it mentioned in our extensive email conversations with Dr. Langdell.

Tim Langdell in 'hiding the facts to make his position look better' shocker!

According to these records, David Papazian did not telephone Edge Games on May 14th between 3:14PM and 4:28PM, as Edge has alleged. The Edge Games Public Statement is thus in contradiction to Mobigame's France Telecom records, and again, Edge has declined to comment on the matter.

Tim Langdell in 'flat-out lying to make his position look better' shocker!

Seriously guys, good work on taking this long to figure out what everyone else already knew, and for wording this article in such a way as to imply 'we weren't wrong, we were just misinformed'. That misinformation goes as far as two outright lies that would surely affect proceedings in a court of law. Like many others above, I'm slightly incredulous that you're still standing by your original stance.

Jesus holy Christ!

Just SHUT THE FUCK UP!
...Why do you even take issue with this? How the hell does this concern you? This is just trolling! You may think "Oh but mummy, I have a right to my opinion" but you do not. This is not how the internet works. The internet is a place where everything is subjugated to the creators desire, and ordered into certain beliefs and opinions. Why would you all continue to troll this poor man like this? He is just trying to be objective here!

Everybody seems so mad about The Escapist being slghtly late with the news and taking a stance that they disagree with. This shit takes time, and just because you don'r agree with the article doesn't meant it's crap.

Goos job Russ, it's good to see that you all are working hard.

I think you misunderstand. I -never- have a problem with articles I merely disagree with. Articles that are misleading, dubious in their claims (see repeated "Langdell has a case" when that's severely in doubt right now) and either ill researched or willingly ignoring any evidence to support a bizarrely contrary opinion - then I have a problem y'know? Especially when it's over something as important as this case is. It might be a few hits to The Escapist, or a drama elsewhere for some of the readership but it -is- important because it might be you or someone else equally undeserving in this position next time Langdell or similar goes on a super happy trademark funtime assault.

Seriously, before you go claiming it's "just a disagreement" with The Escapist's stance - check the evidence, please. Read Shamus' links, read the TIGS thread, read Chaos Edge then tell me, hand on heart that The Escapist are absolutely, utterly and totally right to claim that Langdell has a case and that Mobigame are merely aggrieved and feeling picked on.

The man has produced nothing in 15 years. Almost everything he lays claim to is in doubt from the -actual- IP holders. You cannot possibly say with any conviction that he definitely has a case, yet The Escapist persist. Why? Hits? Stupidity? Naivety? I don't know, but it's ridiculous the conclusions drawn from the evidence.

This article is so far from "a good job" that it really beggars belief. The second consecutive article on the subject to ignore any evidence is not in any way, shape or form a good job. To have evidence presented to you pointing to the contrary then to effectively ignore the evidence in the final paragraph for no obvious reason is not a good job. It's disgraceful journalism.

Once again, your opinion is irrelevant here. Maybe one post, but two is far too many. Please, shut it. It is NOT disgraceful journalism. Not that you can talk, you have a grand total of five posts!

Guys, use this (wo)man as an example:

I disagree with this article on a fundamental level. Why is The Escapist even trying to attempt objectivity? Don't they know the best journalists base stories on assumption and public opinion?

I actually agree with you, subjectivity is much more interesting. The thing is, in a court case like this, if you turn out wrong, you look like an idiot.

You're better than that, The Escapist.

I think this article proves they aren't. What a load of absolute fucking horseshit.

Here's what they could have written: "We got it wrong - here's what we now know". Instead, this article hides behind "Ooh, lookie - new evidence!", using content DOZENS of other articles have already published (in many cases months ago), including the huge resource at TIGSource.

What's most depressing is the number of people here taking Escapist's crap at face value, rather than looking elsewhere online and finding genuine investigative journalism and commentary on the subject from the likes of TIGSource, Eurogamer, et al.

Also, gotta love your copyright attorney, Escapist. I'd say anyone telling a company to settle when the disputed mark is in part based on rights infringement and almost certainly partially falsified court documents is an idiot, not a professional.

But if that's so, then why is Mobigame fighting? The answer to that is that they believe they've been treated unfairly.

No, the answer is because they have a legal basis to dispute the mark that is just as strong and Langdell's case for the mark, but, despite all the evidence to show this, you guys are clearly too dumb to realise it or have egos too big to admit you fucked up in the first place. Either way, this would be piss-poor form from a petulant and arrogant teenage blogger. From a supposedly professional publication, it's absolutely shameful. Congratulations, Escapist - you want to be Edge, but you're actually The News of the World.

...Bwuh? This one is just uninformed! Their original standpoint was that Langdell's position was wrong, evil, poisonous and wrong.

...Why would you think that Mobigame has even the slightest chance in this situation? You can't fight a copyright.

Also, they are continuously implying that Langdell is evil and using corrupt techniques to get his way. Moreover, you insist in being extraordinarily insulting. See above for my opinion of your standpoint.

So why don't you just shut, up you little OK, something less insulting, it seems to annoy people and make them get all condesending on me. How about... kittens. Yeah. Shut up, you little kittens! ...Uhhh...

 

[Synnah]

Good going, FROGGEman2. You defend The Escapist from those horrible n00bs. They sure are the scourge of the internet.