EDIT: Why aren't their more movies/games in which humans are not the focus or don't appear at all?

[thewatergamer]

Alright this is an interesting idea that I find is not often discussed,

I tend to that most if not all of films/video game try to portray humans as the hero's.

Obviously the reason is that we, as humans identify with other humans easier, however I find this ruins alot of films,

Look at AvP and the transformers movies,

Alot of the problems with them are caused by the humans being the main focus and not the cool sci-fi aliens/robots fighting,

the aliens/robot fights are usually just backdrops for terribly written story-arcs revolving around the humans,

This is just my opinion but to the point

Why aren't there more films in which the main protagonist or the focus is not on the humans at all? Sure it would be difficult but its a very much unexplored idea to have humans play a minor role in a game or movie

Just curious as to what my fellow escapists think of the idea of a movie/video game with humans not being the main focus at all and whether or not there are any good movies/game that did exactly that,

the only example I can think of is freddy vs. jason,

I'm with Jim on his movie defense force, part of the reason the film was good is because the humans were just "window shoppers" Not really the main focus of the movie just kind of there to be killed or terrified by freddy or jason

Anyway what do you people think?

 

[Relish in Chaos]

If anything, there?s more fiction than ever portraying humans as weak, villainous, or both. But yes, the reason why there?s a lot of fiction casting humans in the role of heroes (commonly, against aliens, demons or whatever) is because, well, we?re humans and we like to relate to other humans and their struggle.

 

[Kyrdra]

Because people start complaining when humans get the short stick.
I read the webcomic drowtales and the humans there are plainly underpowered and drows are basically just a darker skinned and smaller version of elves. They have magic and are taller and stronger than every human. At least every half year there is someone in the forums who complains about how the humans are too weak and that that is unrealistic and so on.

 

[comraderichard]

Personally I think you have it backwards, cinema has become incredibly cynical and nihilistic these days, misanthropy is downright popular nowadays. It's gotten to the point that I've grown quite fed up with films like Avatar (humans are bastards, despite the insular bloodthristy culture of the giant blue furries), I am a patriot of my species - not of a nation or of a belief. Pacific Rim and, yes, even games like XCOM (which, admittedly, punches you in the gut for every mistake you make quite well) are a breathe of fresh air in what is otherwise an ever-growing sea of pessimism that is to such a degree that some people would gladly surrender their lives because we're such evil vile mean parasites.

I am sick to death of being guilted over my species, we're not perfect, but when we work together we are a damn good force. So, I disagree, I don't think it's overly common: Transformers was glorifying the UNITED STATES MILITARY, not humanity as a whole, and it was just a terrible series of films. I don't mind having alternate perspectives, hell, I liked that one movie where a bunch of sack people wandered around in a desolate wasteland with not a human in sight (though the short film was better than the theatrical version). But if you're so eager to see humanity as some vile horde, remember that you are human, and you're contributing nothing by glorifying a bunch of wooey nature worship BS because naturalism is so righteous or wanting your species to be assimilated into some alien collective.

 

[Boogie Knight]

The reason is very simple, there's a general rule that in anything fantastical you need at least one regular guy in the mix to serve as the means by which the audience gets introduced to the universe. This person is explained who is who, what is what, so the audience can learn those things. It's just a good idea in general to have a character like that so that the audience has someone to relate to easily.

Granted, when the story is crap and the humans are not holding up their end it can be woefully taxing. Also keep in mind that when the movie fafs about with the boring humans that means the movie doesn't have to spend as much on fancy special effects to show the nonhumans everybody really wanted to see.

 

[Giest4life]

Personally I think you have it backwards, cinema has become incredibly cynical and nihilistic these days, misanthropy is downright popular nowadays. It's gotten to the point that I've grown quite fed up with films like Avatar (humans are bastards, despite the insular bloodthristy culture of the giant blue furries)[.]

You have a right to your opinion, but I still want you to know this is hardly the first time in our history humans have been portrayed as physically weak and morally bankrupt. Major works of literature, including the likes of [em]Gulliver's Travels[/em] and the [em]Leviathan[/em], [em]In Praise of Folly[/em] and the [em]Prince[/em], have emphatically argued this point. In fact, this idea has been so pervasive that entire religions have been built around it, namely, Christianity and Islam.

OT: I suspect that they do it because it is just easier for writers and audiences to relate to. Personally, I don't mind books, movies, or games that show a [em]human[/em] as a hero, but I find it annoying when they attempt to show [em]humanity[/em] as the hero.

 

[Alssadar]

Because we are the best thing to ever hit the bloody universe, that's why.
We are destructive, uncaring, and wasteful, with our relentless pursuit of revenge, lack of disregard for others, and ability to surpass our limits by a long shot. We have no care for specific percentages, or even if we can survive the conflict at all: humans will go down fighting. Death is temporary, honor is forever: mankind needs its glory.
Hell yeah.
We are not perfect, like aliens show themselves, and, despite all that, we will win. It is our destiny to conquer known space and spread our self throughout the stars. Some aliens may of been born with a connection with nature, or a land given to them: peace was their growth and civilization their maker. Ours has been war: thousands of bloody wars and billions of untold deaths.
And I would be lying if I said I was ashamed of what we've done. Look at the progress we've made. Look at our splendor. Look at our grace, our invention, our shining monuments to our glory and narcissism. Everything we have has changed us and made us who we are today, and, goddammit, I'm proud of us. For we are mankind: look upon our works and tremble.
Do you think we give a damn about disturbing some alien race? Hell no--we'll go and kick their ass if they're offended, just like we did back here on Earth.
Even if the media was to shift itself away from the human perspective, what would it gain? Some "alien" view of the galaxy? One who squanders their gift for the grace of humility? One who is so pretentious and arrogant all they need is a conflict with humanity, a race technologically eons inferior, to realize their place?
No. For aliens displayed in media, let's face it, are all too human for us to relate to. Aliens would be entirely different than we we know: a lack of basic symmetry, different senses, color differentiation, a whole new set of ideas, rationale, even language: do they even speak at all, or do they communicate through a gas emission or high frequency, or even some radiation emission?
We cannot even begin to fathom what endless horrors await us in the uncaring void. But, like a curious child, unaware of our consequences, we will explore our surroundings to the best of our abilities. And one day, when we age, we will stand up and gaze at our fellows amongst our galaxy. And we will fight to prove ourselves to be the best out of every single one of them.

Spoiler: Incoming Patriotism

---
Image redacted because /tg/ archive is silly
"We poison our air and water to weed off the weak. We set off fission bombs in our only atmosphere. WE NAILED OUR GOD TO A STICK. Don't fuck with the human race." Anonymous, Post Number 2710017
---

---
http://1-media-cdn.foolz.us/ffuuka/board/tg/image/1336/85/1336859200647.jpg
A link because it was too small for this board.
---

 

[barbzilla]

Personally I think you have it backwards, cinema has become incredibly cynical and nihilistic these days, misanthropy is downright popular nowadays. It's gotten to the point that I've grown quite fed up with films like Avatar (humans are bastards, despite the insular bloodthristy culture of the giant blue furries), I am a patriot of my species - not of a nation or of a belief. Pacific Rim and, yes, even games like XCOM (which, admittedly, punches you in the gut for every mistake you make quite well) are a breathe of fresh air in what is otherwise an ever-growing sea of pessimism that is to such a degree that some people would gladly surrender their lives because we're such evil vile mean parasites.

I am sick to death of being guilted over my species, we're not perfect, but when we work together we are a damn good force. So, I disagree, I don't think it's overly common: Transformers was glorifying the UNITED STATES MILITARY, not humanity as a whole, and it was just a terrible series of films. I don't mind having alternate perspectives, hell, I liked that one movie where a bunch of sack people wandered around in a desolate wasteland with not a human in sight (though the short film was better than the theatrical version). But if you're so eager to see humanity as some vile horde, remember that you are human, and you're contributing nothing by glorifying a bunch of wooey nature worship BS because naturalism is so righteous or wanting your species to be assimilated into some alien collective.

I agree with part of your statement and disagree with the other portion. I agree that we are humans and that we shouldn't be as nihilistic, but these pieces of media (be it film, books, games, ect) are not there to make you feel like you have to kill yourself for being evil, or that you want to assimilate yourself into an alien culture. They exist to make you contemplate your existence and what meaning you want your life to have. Do you want to be part of the horrible side of humanity (genocide, greed, murder, rape, ect) of which few of us actually are a part of, do you want to take a neutral stance and ignore then problems of the world, or do you want to do something to better humanity.

It has nothing to do with naturalism, and everything to do with humanism. The root of the word humanitarian is human. Yet many humans are not in line with that definition. These film or whatever, seek to help bring about the amazing side of humans to be less self absorbed and more concerned with what we could become as a species.

 

[kannibus]

This is why I liked the 86 Transformers Movie. That was a movie about giant transforming robots, not a whiney kid.

Okay there was a whiny kid associated with the movie but his parts were minimal.

 

[TheRightToArmBears]

Because you're usually supposed to relate to the hero and root for them, and it's much easier to do that if they're the same species as you.

That's pretty much it.

Also, incoming grammar Nazism. Hero's= Ownership. Heroes= Plural.

 

[balladbird]

Depends on the genre. In science fiction what you say is true, for reasons already discussed, but look at stories that take place in tolkein-esque fantasy worlds. 90% of the time humans are boorish assholes compared to those fair elvish folk or dragons. I guess the message to take away is that humans like to root for other humans... unless there are vaguely effeminate, long-lived humanoids about, in which case humans can get bent.

 

[Lovely Mixture]

This thread is awesome so far.

I hate shit that beats you over the head. Avatar was just fucking stupid, and while District 9 was equally blatant, it actually tried to address the issues from a different and more modern angle (refugees).

Even Tolkien regretted the fact that he didn't show any good orcs in LOTR.

I think Dark Souls did it best. It shows that humans are beings with the potential for great kindness and great evil.

A story that I have been writing involves a race of aliens who have a much more peaceful society than Earth's, but their society as been enforcing a "each race has their own job" system for generations (which not everyone is happy about).

 

[DefunctTheory]

Spoiler

That actually brought a tear to my eye.

As for the OP... I find it interesting that in the 3 movies you pointed out, all 3 are horrible, and in 2 of them the non-humans are outright villains by longstanding canon.

 

[Tom_green_day]

It may have something to do with the fact that WE are humans. People like seeing heroes that they can relate to, and it's pretty hard to relate to something if they're not the same species as you.
I actually don't like it when humans are the villains. Sometimes it just comes off as some stupid story made up just to deliver some barely hidden message, like Avatar. Other times, like in many episodes of the recent Doctor Who revival, it just seems lazy as in the creator couldn't think of an interesting villain so just worked off the 'cold businessman' stereotype.

 

[HardkorSB]

Because humans are the ones watching/playing them.

 

[eimatshya]

Is it really that hard to relate to non-human characters? I've never had any problems empathizing with non-human characters in Sci-fi and Fantasy (as long as they have recognizable emotions/motivations/needs; as awesome as he was, Kosh from Babylon 5 was never particularly relatable). Yet I've read a number of posts by people saying that humans need to be the protagonists so that we can relate to the characters. That just seems odd to me.

 

[Dr. Cakey]

Based on your post, let me streamline your prompt: you're not asking why humans are the "heroes", you're asking why they're the focus. Big difference, Avatar being a previously mentioned example of this.

You know where this really sucks, though? Kids' media. There is an obsession with ruining what have the potential to be fun children's properties by adding human characters, or otherwise dragging a fantastic world into the real world. For Christ's sake, I'm six, I want to see a series about talking dragons fighting an army of evil sharks or whatever (That needs to be a thing, by the way. I cede all rights to that idea to whomever wishes to run with it.), and not a series about a kid who helps talking dragons fight an army of evil sharks which somehow helps him stop being bullied.

Which, by the way, is one of the reasons I have respect for Lego. They got multiple offers to turn Bionicle into a movie, but they turned them down until they found someone willing to make a movie not ruined by a bunch of ten-year-old kinds getting teleported into the Bionicle world or some crap.

 

[thewatergamer]

Personally I think you have it backwards, cinema has become incredibly cynical and nihilistic these days, misanthropy is downright popular nowadays. It's gotten to the point that I've grown quite fed up with films like Avatar (humans are bastards, despite the insular bloodthristy culture of the giant blue furries), I am a patriot of my species - not of a nation or of a belief. Pacific Rim and, yes, even games like XCOM (which, admittedly, punches you in the gut for every mistake you make quite well) are a breathe of fresh air in what is otherwise an ever-growing sea of pessimism that is to such a degree that some people would gladly surrender their lives because we're such evil vile mean parasites.

I am sick to death of being guilted over my species, we're not perfect, but when we work together we are a damn good force. So, I disagree, I don't think it's overly common: Transformers was glorifying the UNITED STATES MILITARY, not humanity as a whole, and it was just a terrible series of films. I don't mind having alternate perspectives, hell, I liked that one movie where a bunch of sack people wandered around in a desolate wasteland with not a human in sight (though the short film was better than the theatrical version). But if you're so eager to see humanity as some vile horde, remember that you are human, and you're contributing nothing by glorifying a bunch of wooey nature worship BS because naturalism is so righteous or wanting your species to be assimilated into some alien collective.

I get all that its just I find that alot of times movies could be alot better if humans were left out of the picture, but I guess I'm thinking more of older movies and not so much current ones, if we are disscussing current ones than you are right, my point is that just because we identify with other humans automatically doesn't mean that we can't identify with other creatures, I think it would be interesting to see more movies/games where humans are totally out of the picture

Once again though I don't really watch to many new movies and if we are disscussing the current culture, yeah according to the current culture humans are evil! Especially white people!

Specifically I am talking about movies like Micheal Bays transformers, I believe that if the humans were totally eliminated from the movie it could be a lot more interesting, even though I doubt hollywood is interested in making good movies and more interested in making tons of money, and currently Transformer's movies=gobtons of money even though they have been pretty terrible... Especially Revenge of the fallen...


PS: Thanks for reminding me why I usually hate newer movies

 

[thewatergamer]

Based on your post, let me streamline your prompt: you're not asking why humans are the "heroes", you're asking why they're the focus. Big difference, Avatar being a previously mentioned example of this.

You know where this really sucks, though? Kids' media. There is an obsession with ruining what have the potential to be fun children's properties by adding human characters, or otherwise dragging a fantastic world into the real world. For Christ's sake, I'm six, I want to see a series about talking dragons fighting an army of evil sharks or whatever (That needs to be a thing, by the way. I cede all rights to that idea to whomever wishes to run with it.), and not a series about a kid who helps talking dragons fight an army of evil sharks which somehow helps him stop being bullied.

Which, by the way, is one of the reasons I have respect for Lego. They got multiple offers to turn Bionicle into a movie, but they turned them down until they found someone willing to make a movie not ruined by a bunch of ten-year-old kinds getting teleported into the Bionicle world or some crap.

Thank you for summarizing me! I am asking why humans are so often the focus in adult non kid movies, you tend to see very few movies that don't have humans as the focus


To clarify I think that the concept of a movie/game with humans non-existent or not being the focus but still saw humans as a kind of hero and villan could be interesting and is largely unexplored...

I think a movie/game in which the premise is an alien species made contact with humans, but you see things from the aliens point of view, possibly teaming up with some humans to fight other humans and aliens

Just unexplored territory here that I wish the popular media culture would explore, then again this is the popular culture we are talking about here... so yeah probably not going to happen
Also I hated avatar and any other movies similar to it, the message was anti-human propaganda trying to paint us as an evil corruption that must be destroyed...