Elder Scrolls online. Why they just don't " get it" with FACTIONS

[SajuukKhar]

Really? I thought that was where they came up with the names of the three factions previously, and decided to use it for the game. And I thought that the 2nd era was renown as a war time?

The second era was known to be a time of war, but the lore only talks about infighting between the nobility of Cyrodiil.

There was no giant race vs race war, the Ebonheart Pact and Daggerfall Covenant didn't exist, and while The Aldmeri Dominion did exist...... they started like 200 years after the war, and Zenimax retconed their start by 200 years to bring them into TESO's timeframe.

 

[NeutralDrow]

I don't really have a problem with organizing an MMO like that...though I admit, I go out of my way to attempt friendly contact with the Horde, and teaming up with villains in City of X was always the most fun.

But an Elder Scrolls MMO? So if I play a Dunmer, I can't play nice with all those bastard Nords, or the like? That sounds like it sucks on toast.

 

[Lil devils x_v1legacy]

While I can somewhat understand your worries, this faction war wasn't just shoved in for gameplay - it's actually part of Elder Scrolls lore that these three factions faced off against each other to rule Tamriel. And outside of the war itself and the PvP area, you can completely ignore the whole thing, and quite happily adventure as a group made of all kinds of races. The factions are there for the sake of the actual plot, not just some gimmicky gameplay.

And on a cultural level, races could and would hate outside regions. War propaganda and the like are very common in this sense, so they could view others as actual enemies and raise the size of their armies based on soldiers willing to fight and hate them.

Sajuukhar beat me to it, but no, that is incorrect. There really is no reason why they had to take races that were living along side one another in all the other games then make it so you have no choice who you fight against. All this does in the end is either 1) force players to make characters in all alliances anyhow thus not getting the " alliance pride" they had envisioned in the first place, or 2) Cause RvRvR to fizzle out when everyone flocks to the team that awalys wins. Basically, they are crippling their PvP from the start. I hope they have a change of heart on this at some point, otherwise as soon as the next flavor of game comes, the PvP will be abandoned and this game will die quickly.

In order to keep pvp from fizzling, you have to provide fun challenging PvP, that continues to be challenging and fun, but that cannot be maintained unless you provide some balance in the sides. When you get one side overpowered, which is what happens when you make it so people can't just " go to the underdog" per battle, you are setting it up for the losing realms to be evacuated when they get tired of losing all the time.

 

[Lil devils x_v1legacy]

Because this isn't EVE?

TESO isn't going for the EVE style of player politics, its going for the Elder Scrolls style of set story, quests, and factions. Also racial profiling makes PVP easier.

I honestly don't see the problem here.

LOL! As much as I love Eve, it isn't like they invented this. You act as if Eve is the only game where you have player politics.. EVERY mmo has player politics. That happens regardless of what the game has built in. It isn't going anywhere, it has been around since the first guilds and will be around until the last. As long as you have players who can play together you will have player politics. Even when you could not communicate in games well, everyone still talked outside of game, had their own websites, and used their own programs to communicate events.

Racial profiling isn't easier than team colors. LOL that is just silly.

If it were going with the actual elder scrolls storyline, it would have not taken the races that were never at war and make that part up JUST for this game. This was never core to elder scrolls. No matter which race you choose, you should be able to play with the faction of your choosing. There is no reason why that should be forced in the first place, it just cripples the PvP mechanics from the start. In fact allowing players to choose their faction would go perfectly with the Elder scrolls style of betrayal. Just as Mercer betrayed the Thieves Guild, A Breton should be able to betray Daggerfall.
There. I even worked it into the storyline.

 

[Voulan]

Really? I thought that was where they came up with the names of the three factions previously, and decided to use it for the game. And I thought that the 2nd era was renown as a war time?

The second era was known to be a time of war, but the lore only talks about infighting between the nobility of Cyrodiil.

There was no giant race vs race war, the Ebonheart Pact and Daggerfall Covenant didn't exist, and while The Aldmeri Dominion did exist...... they started like 200 years after the war, and Zenimax retconed their start by 200 years to bring them into TESO's timeframe.

I'm really disappointed now, I always thought it was already part of the lore. So it really is just a gameplay gimmick. I'm still hyped for the game, but this has really dampened my view on it.

 

[Barking Crow]

Really? I thought that was where they came up with the names of the three factions previously, and decided to use it for the game. And I thought that the 2nd era was renown as a war time?

The second era was known to be a time of war, but the lore only talks about infighting between the nobility of Cyrodiil.

There was no giant race vs race war, the Ebonheart Pact and Daggerfall Covenant didn't exist, and while The Aldmeri Dominion did exist...... they started like 200 years after the war, and Zenimax retconed their start by 200 years to bring them into TESO's timeframe.

I'm really disappointed now, I always thought it was already part of the lore. So it really is just a gameplay gimmick. I'm still hyped for the game, but this has really dampened my view on it.

Todd Howard (one of Bethesda's lead developers) has stated that the MMO is not canon to the single player series. This allows Zenimax to make the changes needed to be a successful MMO, and allows Bethesda to distance itself from the MMO if the ESO crashes and burns.

 

[Lil devils x_v1legacy]

Really? I thought that was where they came up with the names of the three factions previously, and decided to use it for the game. And I thought that the 2nd era was renown as a war time?

The second era was known to be a time of war, but the lore only talks about infighting between the nobility of Cyrodiil.

There was no giant race vs race war, the Ebonheart Pact and Daggerfall Covenant didn't exist, and while The Aldmeri Dominion did exist...... they started like 200 years after the war, and Zenimax retconed their start by 200 years to bring them into TESO's timeframe.

I'm really disappointed now, I always thought it was already part of the lore. So it really is just a gameplay gimmick. I'm still hyped for the game, but this has really dampened my view on it.

Todd Howard (one of Bethesda's lead developers) has stated that the MMO is not canon to the single player series. This allows Zenimax to make the changes needed to be a successful MMO, and allows Bethesda to distance itself from the MMO if the ESO crashes and burns.

Well they aren't exactly trying to prevent that from happening by crippling their PvP from the go with race locked factions. Setting the PvP up for a fizzle before it even starts isn't the best way to ensure longevity. LOL

 

[Saviordd1]

Because this isn't EVE?

TESO isn't going for the EVE style of player politics, its going for the Elder Scrolls style of set story, quests, and factions. Also racial profiling makes PVP easier.

I honestly don't see the problem here.

LOL! As much as I love Eve, it isn't like they invented this. You act as if Eve is the only game where you have player politics.. EVERY mmo has player politics. That happens regardless of what the game has built in. It isn't going anywhere, it has been around since the first guilds and will be around until the last. As long as you have players who can play together you will have player politics. Even when you could not communicate in games well, everyone still talked outside of game, had their own websites, and used their own programs to communicate events.

Racial profiling isn't easier than team colors. LOL that is just silly.

If it were going with the actual elder scrolls storyline, it would have not taken the races that were never at war and make that part up JUST for this game. This was never core to elder scrolls. No matter which race you choose, you should be able to play with the faction of your choosing. There is no reason why that should be forced in the first place, it just cripples the PvP mechanics from the start. In fact allowing players to choose their faction would go perfectly with the Elder scrolls style of betrayal. Just as Mercer betrayed the Thieves Guild, A Breton should be able to betray Daggerfall.
There. I even worked it into the storyline.

Still not seeing an actual problem here.

Also, you say by your own omission that player politics will happen no matter what.

So...

Okay..

What the hell are you saying.

 

[Lil devils x_v1legacy]

Because this isn't EVE?

TESO isn't going for the EVE style of player politics, its going for the Elder Scrolls style of set story, quests, and factions. Also racial profiling makes PVP easier.

I honestly don't see the problem here.

LOL! As much as I love Eve, it isn't like they invented this. You act as if Eve is the only game where you have player politics.. EVERY mmo has player politics. That happens regardless of what the game has built in. It isn't going anywhere, it has been around since the first guilds and will be around until the last. As long as you have players who can play together you will have player politics. Even when you could not communicate in games well, everyone still talked outside of game, had their own websites, and used their own programs to communicate events.

Racial profiling isn't easier than team colors. LOL that is just silly.

If it were going with the actual elder scrolls storyline, it would have not taken the races that were never at war and make that part up JUST for this game. This was never core to elder scrolls. No matter which race you choose, you should be able to play with the faction of your choosing. There is no reason why that should be forced in the first place, it just cripples the PvP mechanics from the start. In fact allowing players to choose their faction would go perfectly with the Elder scrolls style of betrayal. Just as Mercer betrayed the Thieves Guild, A Breton should be able to betray Daggerfall.
There. I even worked it into the storyline.

Still not seeing an actual problem here.

Also, you say by your own omission that player politics will happen no matter what.

So...

Okay..

What the hell are you saying.

I am saying that race locked factions will break RvRvR. Here is how it works:
1) Massive guilds from other games enter this game all choosing the same side. These things are discussed every damn time a game comes out, and everything is decided upon before release. Guilds play MANY games together. From Day 1 Everyone creates accounts for the predetermined faction, guilds are already organized and coordinated. Everyone power trains characters for battle 24/7 and gets stronger.

2)One faction gets overfilled with these guilds and becomes overpowered and extremely well organized.

3)They slaughter in RvRvR the other two sides and continually do so. Everyone in the other realms playing gets tired of getting their ass whooped and either 1) quits PvP all together or 2) switches to winning realm permanently, or 3) rage quits the game all together.

4)Other realms become " PvE servers" and whoever is stupid enough to walk into RvRvR on the losing realms gets their ass handed to them EVERY damn time and they don't go back.

5)PvP in game loses all challenge and becomes boring and repetitive and people leave game over it.

See the problem now? When you allow guilds to switch sides at will, they can correct the balance faster rather than leave it broken forever. Guilds WILL go underdog when it is easy to do so preventing one side from winning ALL the time. Locking them down means they will not be able to do so without starting over, which means it stays broken longer.

 

[Orthus]

I really don't see why they are not taking the classic(or recent) elder scrolls approach and making your character a blank slate that the player can decide who the character sides with regardless of racial alignment. Sure it doesn't fit in the Classical Themepark design.

Side Bar:

I personally hope to see Theme park MMOs be come less profitable and see more sandboxes pop up that let players live the life of a blacksmith,tailor, or even a bandit. If they so choose without forcing any type of gameplay on them, IE: blacksmiths and tailors do not need any combat skills or experience, and bandits don't have to be heros for "quest" rewards.

 

[Saviordd1]

Because this isn't EVE?

TESO isn't going for the EVE style of player politics, its going for the Elder Scrolls style of set story, quests, and factions. Also racial profiling makes PVP easier.

I honestly don't see the problem here.

LOL! As much as I love Eve, it isn't like they invented this. You act as if Eve is the only game where you have player politics.. EVERY mmo has player politics. That happens regardless of what the game has built in. It isn't going anywhere, it has been around since the first guilds and will be around until the last. As long as you have players who can play together you will have player politics. Even when you could not communicate in games well, everyone still talked outside of game, had their own websites, and used their own programs to communicate events.

Racial profiling isn't easier than team colors. LOL that is just silly.

If it were going with the actual elder scrolls storyline, it would have not taken the races that were never at war and make that part up JUST for this game. This was never core to elder scrolls. No matter which race you choose, you should be able to play with the faction of your choosing. There is no reason why that should be forced in the first place, it just cripples the PvP mechanics from the start. In fact allowing players to choose their faction would go perfectly with the Elder scrolls style of betrayal. Just as Mercer betrayed the Thieves Guild, A Breton should be able to betray Daggerfall.
There. I even worked it into the storyline.

Still not seeing an actual problem here.

Also, you say by your own omission that player politics will happen no matter what.

So...

Okay..

What the hell are you saying.

I am saying that race locked factions will break RvRvR. Here is how it works:
1) Massive guilds from other games enter this game all choosing the same side. These things are discussed every damn time a game comes out, and everything is decided upon before release. Guilds play MANY games together. From Day 1 Everyone creates accounts for the predetermined faction, guilds are already organized and coordinated. Everyone power trains characters for battle 24/7 and gets stronger.

2)One faction gets overfilled with these guilds and becomes overpowered and extremely well organized.

3)They slaughter in RvRvR the other two sides and continually do so. Everyone in the other realms playing gets tired of getting their ass whooped and either 1) quits PvP all together or 2) switches to winning realm permanently, or 3) rage quits the game all together.

4)Other realms become " PvE servers" and whoever is stupid enough to walk into RvRvR on the losing realms gets their ass handed to them EVERY damn time and they don't go back.

5)PvP in game loses all challenge and becomes boring and repetitive and people leave game over it.

See the problem now? When you allow guilds to switch sides at will, they can correct the balance faster rather than leave it broken forever. Guilds WILL go underdog when it is easy to do so preventing one side from winning ALL the time. Locking them down means they will not be able to do so without starting over, which means it stays broken longer.

Not really

Considering most of this is conjecture (Well said conjecture but still just that) and that it's been my experience that for the most part the guilds even out by simple virtue of people normally building massive guilds on all sides.

Hell I'm pretty sure if there is a beta (Alpha?) forum to go on for TESO you could already see each side getting filled with guilds focused on PVP.

So basically your odd fear is just conjecture and, better yet, not my problem (As mostly a PvE player).

Have a pleasant day.

 

[SajuukKhar]

Todd Howard (one of Bethesda's lead developers) has stated that the MMO is not canon to the single player series. This allows Zenimax to make the changes needed to be a successful MMO, and allows Bethesda to distance itself from the MMO if the ESO crashes and burns.

No one at Bethesda has ever said ANYTHING suggesting that TESO wasn't canon.

The only thing said about the MMO is that they set it 1,000 years in the past so it doesn't mess with future ES games, and that the MMO wont interfere with the development of future single-player TES games.

 

[Lil devils x_v1legacy]

Because this isn't EVE?

TESO isn't going for the EVE style of player politics, its going for the Elder Scrolls style of set story, quests, and factions. Also racial profiling makes PVP easier.

I honestly don't see the problem here.

LOL! As much as I love Eve, it isn't like they invented this. You act as if Eve is the only game where you have player politics.. EVERY mmo has player politics. That happens regardless of what the game has built in. It isn't going anywhere, it has been around since the first guilds and will be around until the last. As long as you have players who can play together you will have player politics. Even when you could not communicate in games well, everyone still talked outside of game, had their own websites, and used their own programs to communicate events.

Racial profiling isn't easier than team colors. LOL that is just silly.

If it were going with the actual elder scrolls storyline, it would have not taken the races that were never at war and make that part up JUST for this game. This was never core to elder scrolls. No matter which race you choose, you should be able to play with the faction of your choosing. There is no reason why that should be forced in the first place, it just cripples the PvP mechanics from the start. In fact allowing players to choose their faction would go perfectly with the Elder scrolls style of betrayal. Just as Mercer betrayed the Thieves Guild, A Breton should be able to betray Daggerfall.
There. I even worked it into the storyline.

Still not seeing an actual problem here.

Also, you say by your own omission that player politics will happen no matter what.

So...

Okay..

What the hell are you saying.

I am saying that race locked factions will break RvRvR. Here is how it works:
1) Massive guilds from other games enter this game all choosing the same side. These things are discussed every damn time a game comes out, and everything is decided upon before release. Guilds play MANY games together. From Day 1 Everyone creates accounts for the predetermined faction, guilds are already organized and coordinated. Everyone power trains characters for battle 24/7 and gets stronger.

2)One faction gets overfilled with these guilds and becomes overpowered and extremely well organized.

3)They slaughter in RvRvR the other two sides and continually do so. Everyone in the other realms playing gets tired of getting their ass whooped and either 1) quits PvP all together or 2) switches to winning realm permanently, or 3) rage quits the game all together.

4)Other realms become " PvE servers" and whoever is stupid enough to walk into RvRvR on the losing realms gets their ass handed to them EVERY damn time and they don't go back.

5)PvP in game loses all challenge and becomes boring and repetitive and people leave game over it.

See the problem now? When you allow guilds to switch sides at will, they can correct the balance faster rather than leave it broken forever. Guilds WILL go underdog when it is easy to do so preventing one side from winning ALL the time. Locking them down means they will not be able to do so without starting over, which means it stays broken longer.

Not really

Considering most of this is conjecture (Well said conjecture but still just that) and that it's been my experience that for the most part the guilds even out by simple virtue of people normally building massive guilds on all sides.

Hell I'm pretty sure if there is a beta (Alpha?) forum to go on for TESO you could already see each side getting filled with guilds focused on PVP.

So basically your odd fear is just conjecture and, better yet, not my problem (As mostly a PvE player).

Have a pleasant day.

Yes, Their customer service already sent me a link to those forums, and also stated this may change prior to release.
I am hopeful they solve this before it becomes a huge problem in game.

 

[Barking Crow]

No one at Bethesda has ever said ANYTHING suggesting that TESO wasn't canon.

The only thing said about the MMO is that they set it 1,000 years in the past so it doesn't mess with future ES games, and that the MMO wont interfere with the development of future single-player TES games.

Untrue.

Bethesda?s Pete Hines said what Howard and company are working on is ?already really awesome,? but don?t expect it to be talked about soon.

?Zenimax Online Studio is an MMO shop,? said Hines. ?They?re making an Elder Scrolls MMO and that is 100% unrelated to [the single-player series].

http://www.vg247.com/2013/06/13/todd-howards-next-game-looking-awesome-dont-expect-news-on-it-anytime-soon/

Zenimax's handling of the Elder Scrolls lore is a serious concern among longtime fans. Bethesda isn't going to chance the entire series on a game it has no control over, especially when the MMO market is full of dead or dying games that took a shot at World of Warcraft.

 

[Lil devils x_v1legacy]

No one at Bethesda has ever said ANYTHING suggesting that TESO wasn't canon.

The only thing said about the MMO is that they set it 1,000 years in the past so it doesn't mess with future ES games, and that the MMO wont interfere with the development of future single-player TES games.

Untrue.

Bethesda?s Pete Hines said what Howard and company are working on is ?already really awesome,? but don?t expect it to be talked about soon.

?Zenimax Online Studio is an MMO shop,? said Hines. ?They?re making an Elder Scrolls MMO and that is 100% unrelated to [the single-player series].

http://www.vg247.com/2013/06/13/todd-howards-next-game-looking-awesome-dont-expect-news-on-it-anytime-soon/

Zenimax's handling of the Elder Scrolls lore is a serious concern among longtime fans. Bethesda isn't going to chance the entire series on a game it has no control over, especially when the MMO market is full of dead or dying games that took a shot at World of Warcraft.

Misquote? What I am quoted for was stated by SajuuKhar. However, I am disappointed with them choosing to change the storyline like that and remove the players choices in regards to who they PVP against. It takes away from the game rather than adds to it.

 

[SajuukKhar]

Untrue.

Bethesda?s Pete Hines said what Howard and company are working on is ?already really awesome,? but don?t expect it to be talked about soon.

?Zenimax Online Studio is an MMO shop,? said Hines. ?They?re making an Elder Scrolls MMO and that is 100% unrelated to [the single-player series].

http://www.vg247.com/2013/06/13/todd-howards-next-game-looking-awesome-dont-expect-news-on-it-anytime-soon/

Zenimax's handling of the Elder Scrolls lore is a serious concern among longtime fans. Bethesda isn't going to chance the entire series on a game it has no control over, especially when the MMO market is full of dead or dying games that took a shot at World of Warcraft.

I suggest you read the source of that quote, instead of some contextless snippet on another website.
http://www.oxm.co.uk/56352/bethesda-teases-really-awesome-project-from-elder-scrolls-team-100-unrelated-to-mmo/

"Hines, vice president at Bethesda Softworks, was answering our questions about Elder Scrolls Online on Xbox One - screenshots here - when we asked if work on it would hold up the next single player RPG (which, yes, we are hurting for pretty bad).

"Zenimax Online Studio is an MMO shop," said Hines. "They're making an Elder Scrolls MMO and that is 100 per cent unrelated to... Todd Howard, at this point, has earned the right to do what the hell he wants; nobody gets to tell him different and nobody gets to dictate to him what he gets to do.

You're laughing because you know it's true," he continued. "Do you think that even I would go to Todd and say 'listen, I know you want to do this, but these other guys...?' He gets to do whatever he wants. Him and his team are moving forward with the stuff that they want to work on and where they want to go next in making games."

The quote you posted deals with TESO's interference with the development of future single-player TES games, not canonistiy.

And dont even try to talk to ME of all people about TES lore, I will bury you in TES lore. TESO isn't anywhere near as lore breaking as people make it out to be, its stretched far, but in most cases actually lore following.

 

[CloudAtlas]

This faction stuff doesn't seem that attractive to me either. Wasn't the beauty of Skyrim's civil war that you could decide for yourself which side you want to fight on, no matter your own race? After all, (with some imagination) there were good reasons for either side.

 

[Lil devils x_v1legacy]

Untrue.

Bethesda?s Pete Hines said what Howard and company are working on is ?already really awesome,? but don?t expect it to be talked about soon.

?Zenimax Online Studio is an MMO shop,? said Hines. ?They?re making an Elder Scrolls MMO and that is 100% unrelated to [the single-player series].

http://www.vg247.com/2013/06/13/todd-howards-next-game-looking-awesome-dont-expect-news-on-it-anytime-soon/

Zenimax's handling of the Elder Scrolls lore is a serious concern among longtime fans. Bethesda isn't going to chance the entire series on a game it has no control over, especially when the MMO market is full of dead or dying games that took a shot at World of Warcraft.

I suggest you read the source of that quote, instead of some contextless snippet on another website.
http://www.oxm.co.uk/56352/bethesda-teases-really-awesome-project-from-elder-scrolls-team-100-unrelated-to-mmo/

"Hines, vice president at Bethesda Softworks, was answering our questions about Elder Scrolls Online on Xbox One - screenshots here - when we asked if work on it would hold up the next single player RPG (which, yes, we are hurting for pretty bad).

"Zenimax Online Studio is an MMO shop," said Hines. "They're making an Elder Scrolls MMO and that is 100 per cent unrelated to... Todd Howard, at this point, has earned the right to do what the hell he wants; nobody gets to tell him different and nobody gets to dictate to him what he gets to do.

You're laughing because you know it's true," he continued. "Do you think that even I would go to Todd and say 'listen, I know you want to do this, but these other guys...?' He gets to do whatever he wants. Him and his team are moving forward with the stuff that they want to work on and where they want to go next in making games."

The quote you posted deals with TESO's interference with the development of future single-player TES games, not canonistiy.

And dont even try to talk to ME of all people about TES lore, I will bury you in TES lore. TESO isn't anywhere near as lore breaking as people make it out to be, its stretched far, but in most cases actually lore following.

I don't think that it is greatly veering from the storyline, however, I am very disappointed they chose to bend the storyline just to accommodate an unnecessary player limiting feature. I really love so many other things about this game, it just kills me that they ruin it with predetermining which side you are on in battle.

 

[Lil devils x_v1legacy]

This faction stuff doesn't seem that attractive to me either. Wasn't the beauty of Skyrim's civil war that you could decide for yourself which side you want to fight on, no matter your own race? After all, (with some imagination) there were good reasons for either side.

That was one of the things I loved about Skyrim, It did not matter your race, you could choose to go with either side, or none at all and do your own thing all together. I wanted to go Imperial but waited forever to choose a side when I found out that to do the blades quest I would have to kill Paarthurnax and I didn't want to. LOL

 

[LetalisK]

And dont even try to talk to ME of all people about TES lore, I will bury you in TES lore. TESO isn't anywhere near as lore breaking as people make it out to be, its stretched far, but in most cases actually lore following.

I've always considered the role of lore and continuity interesting in what could be considering nerdy hobbies. In video games, gamers lose their shit if something doesn't follow continuity, retcons, or just doesn't logically follow(myself included). But with comic books and the readers, it seems like twisted and confusing continuities with logical holes the size of the sun seem more like a mental challenge akin to a game of sudoku than a problem.