Elder Scrolls V: How can Bethesda learn from Bioware

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Fappy

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Jan 4, 2010
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Let me begin by saying I am a huge fan of both Bioware and Bethesda. Both companies have made incredible games and franchises, especially in the last decade, and have both contributed to the growth and domination of the WRPG. Now I wasn't a huge fan of Fallout 3, more so because I am just not all that interested in the setting, but also because I feel it was too similar to Bethesda's previous game Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion. Now, I understand this argument is ancient and I have no intention of digging it back up. Instead I would simply like to analyze how Bioware has been successful recently and suggest what Bethesda can do to utilize what they've learned with Mass Effect and Dragon Age.

With Dragon Age and Mass Effect Bioware has ironed out the "choose your own adventure" formula, something that Bethesda has dabbled with in the past but never fully embraced. Despite giving you the ability to do virtually whatever you wanted much of the story telling was still static not leaving too much room to make any plot oriented decisions. This is one concept I really hope Bethesda takes to heart when developing TES V (and yes, it is true that Fallot 3 was better about this).

Another incredibly important thing that Bioware has mastered is character. A problem with many Bethesda games is the lack of personality in many of the world's characters. I'll use Oblivion as my prime example of this. First of all... you can't use the same voice actors for all the characters of a certain race. This causes the characters to blur together and they all just end up looking, sounding and acting the same way. Ironically, despite having almost no voice acting whatsoever, Morrowind did a better job in this regard. Morrowind had dynamic characters with hopes, dreams and more often than not ambitions. You could simply look around their house and gauge their personality (having a Sixth-House shrine in your basement was a clear give away that your a lunatic).

Bethesda is different from Bioware in that there is more a focus on the player character, which is great and I believe it should remain that way. They just need to create NPC's that we actually care about. In Fallout 3 and Oblivion I couldn't care less about any of them (except M'aiq the Liar of course). Even characters that were central to the main plot and faction quest-lines were flat and had no character development to speak of (Martin is the only character in the game I can think of that actually changes at all and he's still a flat and boring character).

One last thing. Real conflict and sacrifice. There are very few moments in any of the Bethesda games that actually forces you into a tough decision. Its usually between killing this person or not killing this person. There is never any real sacrifice in any decision (besides dieing as a hero or as a pussy in Fallout 3, which was totally lame).

So what do you guys think? Should Bethesda learn from Bioware's success? What else could they do to improve their next game? And who else is excited to see if TES V will be announced in the next Game Informer like it is rumored to?
 

Julianking93

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Bioware does typically make good with story and it's decision based gameplay, but I really don't like their games.

Mass Effect and Dragon Age both were just very bland and uninteresting to me and I wouldn't want Bethesda to go the same route.

Though, I don't think they will. Bioware has their way, Bethesda has theirs.
 

Ewyx

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Fappy said:
With Dragon Age and Mass Effect Bioware has ironed out the "choose your own adventure"
Stopped reading here. Both were pretty damn linear under the guise of fake freedom. They were good games, don't get me wrong, but far from a game where you had decent choices to make, that would impact the game in a meaningful way. Just saying.
 

PurpleLeafRave

Hyaaaa!
Feb 22, 2009
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I couldn't agree more that Oblivion should be more like Dragon Age in the sense that you get to choose how the story unfolds. That would have made the storyline much more compelling.

The Shivering Isles let you choose what side to take and which leader to kill, and that was nice, but that was the only instance of choice.
 

dancinginfernal

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Sep 5, 2009
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Proper Combat.

That has always been my main complaint about the Elder Scrolls series, and if they fixed that up alone I would be happy. But yes, I am very excited to see if those rumors are true.
 

MisterShine

Him Diamond
Mar 9, 2010
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If only more companies would try and copy from Bioware's style...

I'd have more things to look forward to between Bioware games.

Also OP.. your avatar... Viconia?
 

Shepard's Shadow

Don't be afraid of the dark.
Mar 27, 2009
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I think they should use more then ten voice over people, give me the ability to walk diagonally and have better facial animations. Oh and make the characters more individual and not interchangeable. That would be great. I doubt TES V will be announced in the next GI, but it would be nice to hear some news about it.
 

Fappy

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Ewyx said:
Fappy said:
With Dragon Age and Mass Effect Bioware has ironed out the "choose your own adventure"
Stopped reading here. Both were pretty damn linear under the guise of fake freedom. They were good games, don't get me wrong, but far from a game where you had decent choices to make, that would impact the game in a meaningful way. Just saying.
"Choose your owe adventure" doesn't imply true and absolute freedom. I really can't think of any other RPG that has come out in the last five years that gave you more narrative power than Dragon Age.
 

WaywardHaymaker

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All I want Bethesda to do with their games is make the NPC's feel like they're... you know, alive? Bioware is so much better than that, seeing as if I talk to someone who just got shot in Mass Effect they won't make perfect eye contact with Shepard and say in a flat, uninterested tone, "Do you have some Medi-Gel you could spare? I'm hurt bad."
 

Fappy

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MisterShine said:
If only more companies would try and copy from Bioware's style...

I'd have more things to look forward to between Bioware games.

Also OP.. your avatar... Viconia?
Jarael from the Kotor comics, but nice try :p
 

Yureina

Who are you?
May 6, 2010
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Ewyx said:
Fappy said:
With Dragon Age and Mass Effect Bioware has ironed out the "choose your own adventure"
Stopped reading here. Both were pretty damn linear under the guise of fake freedom. They were good games, don't get me wrong, but far from a game where you had decent choices to make, that would impact the game in a meaningful way. Just saying.
Agreed. That was the one problem I had with an otherwise decent OP. Bioware RPG's may possess some choices in them, but ultimately you are following the same general storyline with just a few twists depending on dialog choices. In that sense, Dragon Age's freedom is not so different from Fallout 3's, except that Fallout 3 had the whole exploration bit so...
 

SimuLord

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Aug 20, 2008
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Julianking93 said:
Bioware does typically make good with story and it's decision based gameplay, but I really don't like their games.

Mass Effect and Dragon Age both were just very bland and uninteresting to me and I wouldn't want Bethesda to go the same route.

Though, I don't think they will. Bioware has their way, Bethesda has theirs.
Ninja'd on the very first reply. I've never played a BioWare game that I actually liked. All the ingredients are there for something great, but the whole is too often less than the sum of its parts and leaves me unsatisfied.

They're the English national soccer team of developers.
 

WaywardHaymaker

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Aug 21, 2009
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WanderFreak said:
[HEADING=1]The Bethesda Dialogue Test[/HEADING]
[HEADING=2]Determining Whether You Have Enough Voice Actors[/HEADING]

Test 1: A character is speaking. Does the character responding have the same voice?
Yes.
You need more voice actors.

Test 2: Congratulations on hiring more voice actors! Have you hired someone famous?
Yes.
Do they die during the tutorial?
Yes.
Think of the starving children your wastefulness could have fed. Did you even consider utilizing their talents?
No.
You are the reason children die of cancer.

Test 3: I saw a mudcrab today!
Hello!
Rewrite your dialogue trees.

Congratulations on completing this test. I look forward to halting, criminal scum.​
You, sir, have defined Bethesda's problem and made my day.
 

Mr. Grey

I changed my face, ya like it?
Aug 31, 2009
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I thought the whole point of Elder Scrolls was that you were destined to complete that path as it was foretold.

Unless I've been playing them wrong or something.
 

Fappy

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Mr. Grey said:
I thought the whole point of Elder Scrolls was that you were destined to complete that path as it was foretold.

Unless I've been playing them wrong or something.
Well there's no fun in a prophecy if it was 100% fullproof, "misread the prophecy might have been". (Sorry for quoting a terrible movie).
 

Najos

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Aug 4, 2008
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I'd like to see them have crafting that can actually be...useful. Sure, it helped in some cases (like poisons and potions), but for the most part alchemy was useless. Meaningful choices would be nice. Better dialogue, better voice acting, better facial expressions, etc. Combat could be better, especially magic! They might as well go the way of the skill tree or something instead of their Oblivion system. It was pretty boring. I'd like to see a more interactive environment too, perhaps see something like random sieges of forts or something.

I wouldn't be surprised if it isn't announced soon. I know their forums have been lit up with TES:V stuff for a while now.
 

BlumiereBleck

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Dec 11, 2008
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But every bioware game has been just...awful. Bethesda just needs to do their thing and they'll make a great game.