Elder Scrolls V: How can Bethesda learn from Bioware

[Booze Zombie]

Have daemons and the like attacking the noble Paladin's keep or have heroes for hire that'll assault the necromancer's lair. Make it so that when you do evil things something happens other than people being a little snippy before they talk to you.

Precisly, something like this would give you more immersion in the world, too. You want to save the world because you want to control it/you're a brainwashed knight in shining armour.

 

[Snowalker]

I feel that... no..

Look, Mass Effect was good, like really good.

Dragon Age, sucked... Sorry, it was boring, the story felt over done. And the character interactions just left me feeling... empty.

I think, even though Bethesda has boring character interactions and sometimes a bland story, its not what you get the game for. All the people I know who enjoy these games aren't hung up on story or depth, but the fucking setting.

Bethesda knows how to make what would seem boring (wasteland) become very fucking interesting, they're just that good. Its what they do,and they should stick to it.

 

[captainaweshum]

But every bioware game has been just...awful. Bethesda just needs to do their thing and they'll make a great game.

Blinks at laptop screen.
Sips cola thoughtfully.
Resists urge to punch poster through his digital magic.

 

[captainaweshum]

I feel that... no..

Look, Mass Effect was good, like really good.

Dragon Age, sucked... Sorry, it was boring, the story felt over done. And the character interactions just left me feeling... empty.

I think, even though Bethesda has boring character interactions and sometimes a bland story, its not what you get the game for. All the people I know who enjoy these games aren't hung up on story or depth, but the fucking setting.

Bethesda knows how to make what would seem boring (wasteland) become very fucking interesting, they're just that good. Its what they do,and they should stick to it.

I found Oblivion's setting very interesting because at the time the landscape was really cutting edge, at least for a console gamer.

But Fallout 3's wasteland was boring as all hell.

 

[ZombieLawngnome]

[HEADING=1]The Bethesda Dialogue Test[/HEADING]
[HEADING=2]Determining Whether You Have Enough Voice Actors[/HEADING]

Test 1: A character is speaking. Does the character responding have the same voice?
Yes.
You need more voice actors.

Test 2: Congratulations on hiring more voice actors! Have you hired someone famous?
Yes.
Do they die during the tutorial?
Yes.
Think of the starving children your wastefulness could have fed. Did you even consider utilizing their talents?
No.
You are the reason children die of cancer.

Test 3: I saw a mudcrab today!
Hello!
Rewrite your dialogue trees.

Congratulations on completing this test. I look forward to halting, criminal scum.​

I was going to say something, but it seems like we've got it covered already.

 

[Fappy]

I feel that... no..

Look, Mass Effect was good, like really good.

Dragon Age, sucked... Sorry, it was boring, the story felt over done. And the character interactions just left me feeling... empty.

I think, even though Bethesda has boring character interactions and sometimes a bland story, its not what you get the game for. All the people I know who enjoy these games aren't hung up on story or depth, but the fucking setting.

Bethesda knows how to make what would seem boring (wasteland) become very fucking interesting, they're just that good. Its what they do,and they should stick to it.

How can you say that Oblivion's setting was any good? It was the same square of land copied and pasted a million times over. Yes, Morrowind's setting was AWESOME, but if the setting was really the focus of Oblivion, then they need to focus on something else instead.

I completely agree. Cyrodiil sucks as a setting. It is a bland and cliched fantasy province with nothing new to offer. Even the Alyiad ruins added nothing to the experience or depth of the land.

Oh by the way... fixed.

 

[Withall]

With Dragon Age and Mass Effect Bioware has ironed out the "choose your own adventure"

Stopped reading here. Both were pretty damn linear under the guise of fake freedom. They were good games, don't get me wrong, but far from a game where you had decent choices to make, that would impact the game in a meaningful way. Just saying.

In my experience, Bethesda is closer to the "make-your-own-adventure" side than "loosely-scripted" side. While Bioware is somewhere in the middle. I suppose they could learn from each other.....

 

[Fappy]

The moral choices in Morrowind are few, but they are done as moral choices should be done.

For example, I once found a Nord whose axe was stolen by a witch (you know the one). I spent ages working out whether to side with him or her, ev etually siding with him, and I have no idea whether that was the 'right' thing to do.

Also, I've just completed Tribunal, and that had some interesting choices:

Spoiler: SPOILER ALERT

In Tribunal, you have to play either doing the missions forAlmallexia or the palace. Grantd the choice is an illusion, because you end up doing both, but if it wasan either/or, it would have been great. On the one hand, you have a king who is trying to kill you CONSTANTLY, and on the other hand, you have a corrupted God - I chose tAlmalexia, and got confused when she turned evil (at the ashstorm mission). This is one place where the Sanbox choice-system could hae been used to better effect.

But in all honesty, what Elder Scrolls need now is more originality, and it'll never gett that 'taking tips from other games' as people keep requesting. I don't want a new Morrowind, Oblivion, Dragon Age or Mass Effect for TES V. TES has always kept its mechanics fresh, and they should stay that way.

And that, children, is why VATS shouldn't be in Skyrim.

Although the ability for target spells to actually target would be a nice addition... and maybe a slight "Arrow-Time" for archers.

 

[michael_ab]

the funny thing about both of the games is their odd choice of focus. in mass effect and dragon age i had the most fun going through the diologue, because it was richly written with good voice actors. in oblivion, i confess, i had the most fun just running around (also i have 274 speed thanks to enchanting). the world was just so beautiful.

both games need help with combat, i like oblivions more shotgunned skills system, although spell vareity and the ability to actually delete them would be nice

no instant teleportation? ok, i can stand that if other means of transportation are available, like driving silt striders or flying those jelly things, or just running really fast, but if thats the case it will need less area loading (look at red dead redemption to see the difference).

i love biowares worlds and storylines, but i want to actually EXPLORE. let me ride a dragon in dragon age. let me actually drive the space ship in mass effect (you know epic space battles would be badass. or maybe fit in RTS elements)

and for the love of god BRING BACK THE WEREWOLVES. and if im a fucking %100 vampire, cut the other vamps hostility, especially when they obviousally have other vamp friends they are not hostile to

 

[Snowalker]

How can you say that Oblivion's setting was any good? It was the same square of land copied and pasted a million times over. Yes, Morrowind's setting was good, but if the setting was really the focus of Oblivion, then they need to focus on something else instead.

Well, I actually enjoyed Oblivions setting, cause it wasn't drastic changes like most fantasy games, it was slow. You had different settings, you had a marsh, a forest, a farmland, coast line, and a snowy mountain area. So, it wasn't one square piece of land copied over and over. It just wasn't abrupt changes, so its easier to miss. Besides, you mean to tell em you didn't find the old ruins cool looking?

 

[Fappy]

the funny thing about both of the games is their odd choice of focus. in mass effect and dragon age i had the most fun going through the diologue, because it was richly written with good voice actors. in oblivion, i confess, i had the most fun just running around (also i have 274 speed thanks to enchanting). the world was just so beautiful.

both games need help with combat, i like oblivions more shotgunned skills system, although spell vareity and the ability to actually delete them would be nice

no instant teleportation? ok, i can stand that if other means of transportation are available, like driving silt striders or flying those jelly things, or just running really fast, but if thats the case it will need less area loading (look at red dead redemption to see the difference).

i love biowares worlds and storylines, but i want to actually EXPLORE. let me ride a dragon in dragon age. let me actually drive the space ship in mass effect (you know epic space battles would be badass. or maybe fit in RTS elements)

This is why the spell "Resist Magicka" and the Boots of Blinding speed existed in Morrowind

 

[Zeromaeus]

And that, children, is why VATS shouldn't be in Skyrim.

Who said it should be? VATS was just the remnants of Fallout's turn-based-tactics gameplay crammed into a neat convenient feature for when you want to play Fallout the RPG instead of Fallout the shooter. TES has always been slashy, slashy adventure time. Why would it get VATS?

 

[gmaverick019_v1legacy]

Bethesda and Bioware make very different games. In Oblivion, you just do whatever the hell you want. You don't even have to do the main quest. However, the game is so big, that it feels empty. In Bioware games your only real choices are what class you are and your whether you choose to be a saint or a dick. But their games are full of interesting characters and good writing. I don't think these styles would blend very well.

obsidian has dinked around with this (imo) with some of their games, and despite being buggy..they do quite well,

but as to say..the fans, the fans of the elder scrolls generally like the open world billion of side questedness, while bioware fans like the story/character driven part of it, so trying to take ideas from one, you'll probably end up losing the fans you have by just being a copycat of another company

 

[Legion IV]

Bioware does typically make good with story and it's decision based gameplay, but I really don't like their games.

Mass Effect and Dragon Age both were just very bland and uninteresting to me and I wouldn't want Bethesda to go the same route.

Though, I don't think they will. Bioware has their way, Bethesda has theirs.

They do storys and characters perfectly. But! The choice system is eh and the praragon renegade system is BROKEN beyond beilef!. There games still get solid 8 and 9's though. Great games.

 

[Zeromaeus]

The moral choices in Morrowind are few, but they are done as moral choices should be done.

For example, I once found a Nord whose axe was stolen by a witch (you know the one). I spent ages working out whether to side with him or her, ev etually siding with him, and I have no idea whether that was the 'right' thing to do.

Also, I've just completed Tribunal, and that had some interesting choices:

Spoiler: SPOILER ALERT

In Tribunal, you have to play either doing the missions forAlmallexia or the palace. Grantd the choice is an illusion, because you end up doing both, but if it wasan either/or, it would have been great. On the one hand, you have a king who is trying to kill you CONSTANTLY, and on the other hand, you have a corrupted God - I chose tAlmalexia, and got confused when she turned evil (at the ashstorm mission). This is one place where the Sanbox choice-system could hae been used to better effect.

But in all honesty, what Elder Scrolls need now is more originality, and it'll never gett that 'taking tips from other games' as people keep requesting. I don't want a new Morrowind, Oblivion, Dragon Age or Mass Effect for TES V. TES has always kept its mechanics fresh, and they should stay that way.

And that, children, is why VATS shouldn't be in Skyrim.

Although the ability for target spells to actually target would be a nice addition... and maybe a slight "Arrow-Time" for archers.

Yes.

The archery system needed improvement, probably combat in general, but taking things from other series isn't the was to go. *Archery system- APPROVED*

My character "Sneaky Guy" (He was my seventh okay. You start to run low on creativity after seven people.) can snipe anything anywhere without making a noise. I loved the archery in that game. What was wrong with it?

 

[Fappy]

And that, children, is why VATS shouldn't be in Skyrim.

Who said it should be? VATS was just the remnants of Fallout's turn-based-tactics gameplay crammed into a neat convenient feature for when you want to play Fallout the RPG instead of Fallout the shooter. TES has always been slashy, slashy adventure time. Why would it get VATS?

I think a lot of people on the Bethesda forums argued about it around the time Fallout 3 came out. I highly doubt they'll go that route. Speaking of Skyrim... I'm a little worried about that setting. Isn't it pretty much always snowing in Skyrim? I hope they can find a way to give Skyrim a dynamic ambiance.

 

[Snowalker]

The old ruins were cool looking the first time I saw 'em. After going through the same old ruins in different locations another five hundred times for side-quests and leveling, no, they weren't very cool.

You make a good point.

 

[Fappy]

The moral choices in Morrowind are few, but they are done as moral choices should be done.

For example, I once found a Nord whose axe was stolen by a witch (you know the one). I spent ages working out whether to side with him or her, ev etually siding with him, and I have no idea whether that was the 'right' thing to do.

Also, I've just completed Tribunal, and that had some interesting choices:

Spoiler: SPOILER ALERT

In Tribunal, you have to play either doing the missions forAlmallexia or the palace. Grantd the choice is an illusion, because you end up doing both, but if it wasan either/or, it would have been great. On the one hand, you have a king who is trying to kill you CONSTANTLY, and on the other hand, you have a corrupted God - I chose tAlmalexia, and got confused when she turned evil (at the ashstorm mission). This is one place where the Sanbox choice-system could hae been used to better effect.

But in all honesty, what Elder Scrolls need now is more originality, and it'll never gett that 'taking tips from other games' as people keep requesting. I don't want a new Morrowind, Oblivion, Dragon Age or Mass Effect for TES V. TES has always kept its mechanics fresh, and they should stay that way.

And that, children, is why VATS shouldn't be in Skyrim.

Although the ability for target spells to actually target would be a nice addition... and maybe a slight "Arrow-Time" for archers.

Yes.

The archery system needed improvement, probably combat in general, but taking things from other series isn't the was to go. *Archery system- APPROVED*

My character "Sneaky Guy" (He was my seventh okay. You start to run low on creativity after seven people.) can snipe anything anywhere without making a noise. I loved the archery in that game. What was wrong with it?

At later levels your combat ability heavily depended on highly damaging magic arrows and while not attacking from stealth it could be very difficult to hit targets that are frantically running all over the place. I got pretty damn good in with my rogue, but needing to fill an enemy with 15 arrows in order to kill him started to get irritating, especially when he was all over the place