Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim: Dragonborn DLC files found in latest patch

[SajuukKhar]

There was more of a sense of progress in the guilds in Oblivion than in Skyrim.

I remember I had to do a good ten hours of questing just to get into the Mage's guild in the Imperial City - going around the world doing all those quests and slowly rising up the ranks gave me a sense of progress.

In comparison in Skyrim I just turned up and did like 4 hours of quests and was suddenly the leader of the guild.

Well all those recommendation quests had nothing to do with the plot of the mages guild.

Skyrim focused solely on the plot, and removed most of the fluff, perhaps too much though.

But those fucking Guild recommendation quests, such a waste.

 

[endtherapture]

There was more of a sense of progress in the guilds in Oblivion than in Skyrim.

I remember I had to do a good ten hours of questing just to get into the Mage's guild in the Imperial City - going around the world doing all those quests and slowly rising up the ranks gave me a sense of progress.

In comparison in Skyrim I just turned up and did like 4 hours of quests and was suddenly the leader of the guild.

Well all those recommendation quests had nothing to do with the plot of the mages guild.

Skyrim focused solely on the plot, and removed most of the fluff, perhaps too much though.

But those fucking Guild recommendation quests, such a waste.

It gave a sense of progress and sense of scale to the world though, plus some of the quests stood out and were pretty cool (remember the one with the ring at the bottom of the well? That was so cool).

It'd be like Dragon Age but going straight from Ostagar to the final battle in Denerim, cos you know...the rest of the game is just fluff...gotta focus on the plot man!!

Skyrim can't afford to focus on the plot because the plot frankly is crap. We needed more unique "fluff" quests (instead we got this boring radiant clear out a dungeon shit) as opposed to incredibly boring and short "plot" quest-lines.

 

[SajuukKhar]

It gave a sense of progress and sense of scale to the world though, plus some of the quests stood out and were pretty cool (remember the one with the ring at the bottom of the well? That was so cool).

It'd be like Dragon Age but going straight from Ostagar to the final battle in Denerim, cos you know...the rest of the game is just fluff...gotta focus on the plot man!!

Skyrim can't afford to focus on the plot because the plot frankly is crap. We needed more unique "fluff" quests (instead we got this boring radiant clear out a dungeon shit) as opposed to incredibly boring and short "plot" quest-lines.

The hyperbole, at least attempt to make a sensible argument.

Actually it would be more like having the forest of werewolves go from 5 maps to 3.
1 elf camp
2 forest
2 ruins

down to
1 elf camp
1 forest
1 ruin

Also that ring in the well crap was retarded, it was obvious it was some weight ring.

And the College's questline in Skyrim was far better then the one in OBlivion.

Fucking Manimarco and necromancers, at least Ancanno put up a fight with magic invulnerability, and Ancanno's plan could have actually worked, unlike Manimarco's.

 

[endtherapture]

It gave a sense of progress and sense of scale to the world though, plus some of the quests stood out and were pretty cool (remember the one with the ring at the bottom of the well? That was so cool).

It'd be like Dragon Age but going straight from Ostagar to the final battle in Denerim, cos you know...the rest of the game is just fluff...gotta focus on the plot man!!

Skyrim can't afford to focus on the plot because the plot frankly is crap. We needed more unique "fluff" quests (instead we got this boring radiant clear out a dungeon shit) as opposed to incredibly boring and short "plot" quest-lines.

The hyperbole.

Actually it would be more like having the forest of werewolves go from 5 maps to 3.
1 elv camp
2 forest
2 ruins

down to 1elf camp
1 forest
1 ruin

Also that ring in the well crap was retarded, it was obvious it was some weight ring.

The forest had loads of really cool lore and challenges in it for example the Revenant and the crazy super powerful old man.

The problem with TES in general is that you tell us it has loads of really cool interesting lore hidden away and everything, but you never see any of it and it is just teased too much, Games should show and not tell - and when they tell it shouldn't be hidden away in loads of annoying books I have to sift through - give us a easy access Codex ffs it'd be much much easier to get this lore.

It's a game, it's a visual medium - they should show us all this cool lore instead of telling us crazy stuff happens.

 

[SajuukKhar]

The forest had loads of really cool lore and challenges in it for example the Revenant and the crazy super powerful old man.

The problem with TES in general is that you tell us it has loads of really cool interesting lore hidden away and everything, but you never see any of it and it is just teased too much, Games should show and not tell - and when they tell it shouldn't be hidden away in loads of annoying books I have to sift through - give us a easy access Codex ffs it'd be much much easier to get this lore.

It's a game, it's a visual medium - they should show us all this cool lore instead of telling us crazy stuff happens.

The codex is an abomination to RPGs, and probably one of the worst things Bioware has ever added to their games.

Lore isn't something that should be handed to you on a silver platter, it isn't something you should be able to go up and ask some random NPC about, and then he gives some dictonary-esque definition with no soul, like in Bioware games.

Lore is a puzzle, it is something you should have to piece together using information from books, and the events as they happen.

Lore is something that should only be shown through echos, and symbolism, that is only ever hinted at in the most vague way possible, but is never directly pointed out.

It should take effort to know what is actually going on.

If they put in a codex I would probably stop playing the game because of how idiotic it is.

 

[endtherapture]

The forest had loads of really cool lore and challenges in it for example the Revenant and the crazy super powerful old man.

The problem with TES in general is that you tell us it has loads of really cool interesting lore hidden away and everything, but you never see any of it and it is just teased too much, Games should show and not tell - and when they tell it shouldn't be hidden away in loads of annoying books I have to sift through - give us a easy access Codex ffs it'd be much much easier to get this lore.

It's a game, it's a visual medium - they should show us all this cool lore instead of telling us crazy stuff happens.

The codex is an abomination to RPgs, and probably one of the worst things Bioware has ever added to their games.

Lore isn't something that should be handed to you on a silver platter, it isn;t something you should be able to go up and ask some random NPC about and then he gives some dictonary-esque definition with no soul, like in bioware games.

Lore is a puzzle, it is something you should have to piece together using information from books, and the events as they happen.

If they put in a codex I would probably stop playing the game because of how idiotic it is.

It should be something like I can pick up a book and then it goes into my Codex then I can drop the book. Sometimes I want to play, sometimes I want to read about lore. I don't want to use my inventory space holding hundreds of books to read.

All it needs is that you pick up a book and the contents of the book gets added to a Codex which is divided into sections like mythology, history, alchemy, magic, etc. etc.

But of course your opinion of TES is correct and no one else can make a judgement or criticism of the game or any other game because you are always right...

 

[SajuukKhar]

It should be something like I can pick up a book and then it goes into my Codex then I can drop the book. Sometimes I want to play, sometimes I want to read about lore. I don't want to use my inventory space holding hundreds of books to read.

All it needs is that you pick up a book and the contents of the book gets added to a Codex which is divided into sections like mythology, history, alchemy, magic, etc. etc.

But of course your opinion of TES is correct and no one else can make a judgement or criticism of the game or any other game because you are always right...

You don't have to horde hundreds of books in your inventory, just keep them in your house.

Also, there are over 600 books in Skyrim, most of which are several pages long, making a codex out of it would be nearly impossible, and would end up cutting the books down to two paragraph snippets like in Dragon age, which would cut out the soul of the books.

Also, books are terrible sources for lore, they are about as trustworthy as the NPCs, which is to say not at all.

 

[endtherapture]

It should be something like I can pick up a book and then it goes into my Codex then I can drop the book. Sometimes I want to play, sometimes I want to read about lore. I don't want to use my inventory space holding hundreds of books to read.

All it needs is that you pick up a book and the contents of the book gets added to a Codex which is divided into sections like mythology, history, alchemy, magic, etc. etc.

But of course your opinion of TES is correct and no one else can make a judgement or criticism of the game or any other game because you are always right...

You don't have to horde hundreds of books in your inventory, just keep them in your house.

Also, there are over 600 books in Skyrim, most of which are several pages long, making a codex out of it would be nearly impossible, and would end up cutting the books down to two paragraph snippets like in Dragon age, which would cut out the soul of the books.

No cos when I try to organise stuff in my house it all ends up on the floor and it's a nightmare to put things in bookcases because when it reloads everything is just on the floor.

A codex would solve this problem.

And no it wouldn't. I found the lore in DA much more interesting, well written and easier to read because of the well organised codex system. TES in comparison is boring and impractical. I don't want to spend time in a game filing all these books, the game should do it for me.

 

[SajuukKhar]

No cos when I try to organise stuff in my house it all ends up on the floor and it's a nightmare to put things in bookcases because when it reloads everything is just on the floor.

A codex would solve this problem.

And no it wouldn't. I found the lore in DA much more interesting, well written and easier to read because of the well organised codex system. TES in comparison is boring and impractical. I don't want to spend time in a game filing all these books, the game should do it for me.

Just put them in a chest, or a dresser....... books cant fall out of those

So what your saying is
"I don't want to take the time to explore the game world, look at how the levels are designed, how things are placed, and extrapolate from that what the devs were trying to say, I want the world to just tell everything to me"

You are pretty much saying that while playing an open world game, you don't want to explore the world, just be told what the world is like. Your basically saying you don't want to explore in a game that is designed around exploring.

And your saying you don't want to read the books, but you want the books to read themselves then digest a brief summary of them?

Do you want horses to move themselves also?

 

[endtherapture]

No cos when I try to organise stuff in my house it all ends up on the floor and it's a nightmare to put things in bookcases because when it reloads everything is just on the floor.

A codex would solve this problem.

And no it wouldn't. I found the lore in DA much more interesting, well written and easier to read because of the well organised codex system. TES in comparison is boring and impractical. I don't want to spend time in a game filing all these books, the game should do it for me.

Just put them in a chest, or a dresser....... books cant fall out of those

So what your saying is
"I don't want to take the time to explore the game world, look at how the levels are designed, how things are placed, and extrapolate from that what the devs were trying to say, I want the world to just tell everything to me"

You are pretty much saying that while playing an open world game, you don't want to explore the world, just be told what the world is like.

Well no I'm not stupid I can extrapolate some things from the world, but just take Labyrinthian for example - it's cool place, but no idea what it's about at all - some random set of Draugr temples in the mountains full of Dragon Priests and dark magic - that's what I think. Why? Because I can't be bothered to go trekking across Skyrim looking for a book (that could be anywhere) telling me what Labyrinthian is about.

Discover the place, codex updates and it gives you a slight overview of the background of the place - saves hours of time in bloody book searching. That keeps exploration a key aspect of the game. Plus a codex is way more immersive than alt-tabbing out and googling the bloody place.

Putting everything in books is just lazy, it's a throwback to older game where they couldn't have characters explain everything because of the limitations of the system. Dragon Age does lore correctly. Skyrim doesn't.

It's a game. I do enough searching for literature around in my degree. I want to play a game to escape from my everyday life, not emulate it.

 

[SajuukKhar]

Well no I'm not stupid I can extrapolate some things from the world, but just take Labyrinthian for example - it's cool place, but no idea what it's about at all - some random set of Draugr temples in the mountains full of Dragon Priests and dark magic - that's what I think. Why? Because I can't be bothered to go trekking across Skyrim looking for a book (that could be anywhere) telling me what Labyrinthian is about.

Discover the place, codex updates and it gives you a slight overview of the background of the place - saves hours of time in bloody book searching. Plus a codex is way more immersive than alt-tabbing out and googling the bloody place.

Putting everything in books is just lazy, it's a throwback to older game where they couldn't have characters explain everything because of the limitations of the system. Dragon Age does lore correctly. Skyrim doesn't.

Labyrinthian was the home of the Dragon Cult, that's why there's the dragon priest mask holder temple there.

There was an entire quest revolving collecting all the Dragon priest masks, bringing them back to Labryntihan, and putting them on the mask holder, to get the special 9th mask.

And no books were placed in the Elder scrolls to flesh out the lore, not because they couldn't have NPCs tell you everything.
.
.
Dragon Age does lore very incorrectly.

Dragon Age treats lore like shit, all you do is walk up to a NPC or book, activate them, them BAM you get a dictionary-esque summary of what they said.

In Dragon Age's lore, there is no mystery, no discovery, everything is handed to you on a platter, and you are told to accept it.

Dragon Age's lore is like the conversation with the god-chld at the end of Mass Effect 3, its a developer spewing exposition that you are forced to accept because you lack the ability to question it.

Dragon Age has no mystery, nothing to question, nothing to think about, you are just TOLD everything you need to know and they throw a Codex in front f your face in case you forget.

Dragon Age's lore is like Mc.Donalds hamburgers, mass produced, and bland.

You don't have to find anything Dragon Age since all the books are placed in front of you, and important NPCs conversation notes get updated automatically.

Its boring, and ruins the sense of mystery what you can just walk up to any NPC and have them tell you half of the secrets of the game in one conversation.

Dragon Age is like watching a movie with the developer commentary on, it just tells you all the secrets to the universe as you go.

 

[Baralak]

I'd agree with a codex to a point. Lore is something that should be shown, not told, when it's convenient and essential to the plot Info about the Dovahkiin should be shown and told to you, not hidden in a book. However, background stuff, like who each of the Aedra and Daedra are, or how the world was made, put them in the books, to go and explore. Let books put in small entries into a codex, where more books in the series, or related books would expand on that.

In fact, if the NPCs and books aren't 100% reliable, make a small minigame out of it where you have to decide which version of a story, or which facts are true or not. Give a small bonus for getting it right, but nothing if you're wrong. It'll give a bonus to to big lore buffs, while people who don't care about the lore will be able to easily make it up by increasing skills and killing.

 

[endtherapture]

Well no I'm not stupid I can extrapolate some things from the world, but just take Labyrinthian for example - it's cool place, but no idea what it's about at all - some random set of Draugr temples in the mountains full of Dragon Priests and dark magic - that's what I think. Why? Because I can't be bothered to go trekking across Skyrim looking for a book (that could be anywhere) telling me what Labyrinthian is about.

Discover the place, codex updates and it gives you a slight overview of the background of the place - saves hours of time in bloody book searching. Plus a codex is way more immersive than alt-tabbing out and googling the bloody place.

Putting everything in books is just lazy, it's a throwback to older game where they couldn't have characters explain everything because of the limitations of the system. Dragon Age does lore correctly. Skyrim doesn't.

Labyrinthian was the home of the Dragon Cult, that's why there's the dragon priest mask holder temple there.

There was an entire quest revolving collecting all the Dragon priest masks, bringing them back to Labryntihan, and putting them on the mask holder, to get the special 9th mask.

And no books were placed in the Elder scrolls to flesh out the lore, not because they couldn't have NPCs tell you everything.
.
.
Dragon Age does lore very incorrectly.

Dragon Age treats lore like shit, all you do is walk up to a NPC or book, activate them, them BAM you get a dictionary-esque summary of what they said.

In Dragon Age's lore, there is no mystery, no discovery, everything is handed to you on a platter, and you are told to accept it.

Dragon Age's lore is like the conversation with the god-chld at the end of Mass Effect 3, its a developer spewing exposition that you are forced to accept because you lack the ability to question it.

Dragon Age has no mystery, nothing to question, nothing to think about, you are just TOLD everything you need to know and they throw a Codex in front f your face in case you forget.

Dragon Age's lore is like Mc.Donalds hamburgers, mass produced, and bland.

You don't have to find anything Dragon Age since all the books are placed in front of you, and important NPCs conversation notes get updated automatically.

Its boring, and ruins the sense of mystery what you can just walk up to any NPC and have them tell you half of the secrets of the game in one conversation.

Dragon Age is like watching a movie with the developer commentary on, it just tells you all the secrets to the universe as you go.

Perhaps you should stop coming on these forums, talking down to people who disagree with you about every little thing with TES and shouting lore at people "THE DRAGONBORN IS LORKHAN REBORN WHO IS TIBER SEPTIM WHO IS BLAH BLAH BLAH..." yeah no one cares because there's no evidence in the game and no one really cares about it because the story is so poorly told.

DA lore is so good because you can question it - there's multiple opinions on who is the true god, what is the Fade, who was Andraste, where do the Darkspawn come from? Did you ever go into the mountain dungeon with Oghren? He says the mountain is laced with lyrium, therefore that might be why the ashes have divine powers. It's a lot more ambiguous than you give it credit for and that's why it's good - it engages on an intellectual level by giving you facts and allowing you to make up your own opinion on it rather than just spouting bullshit theories about crazy divinity and Lorkhan and stuff that TES (and you) tells us.

 

[SajuukKhar]

snip

-You are aware that when Tiber Septim CHIMED Cyrodiil he made it to where it had ALWAYS been like that? He re-wrote time to its beginning to make it not a jungle, Tiber's actions would in no way have destroyed the economy, fauna, or anything else, for it had always been the way he made it.

-The N64 is NOT the current generation. Also the pocket guide to The Empire has been labeled Impeiralist propaganda by Bethesda since it was released, IT HAS NEVER BEEN CORRECT, this has been known for years.

-Elsweyr southern part was described as a sub-tropical forest, its density has never been properly documented.

-Black Marsh would most likely be like Morthal, and the area surrounding it, it really wouldn't be that dense.

-And again, The Pocket guide to The Rmpire is known, and has been confirmed by the devs, to be exaggerated, and wrong.

-You don't have to use exploits to beat Alduin at level 8. On top of that you are comparing things of two entirely different magnitudes and are trying to treat them as one. Removing guild requirements because they were exploitable is in no way. shape or form, anywhere NEAR the same thing as removing the questline in its entirety.

-Guild requirements
1. In Morrowind you could pay skill trainers, as you can in Skyirm, to raise skills for you. due to the ease of making money it was entirely possible to get skill trainers to train you to 100 in all skills, despite not knowing spell or ever using sword etc. etc., and get past the guild requirements.

2. Actually, considering modders themselves have tired, and failed, to make them non-eploxitable, even people who do this as their life have been unable to find a way to do it.

3. Actually it was on modding forums such as Nexus, not normal game forums.

to answer your question, yes I do know.

-asskicking in skyrim should make you Arch-Mage when the position of Arch-Mage is based on power and you show you have the most power

-You are the Dovahkiin, user of the Thu'um which is a form of magic, by your very nature you are a master of a fom of Magic, a very special form of magic, and thus qualified to be archmage, for being a master of magic.

-I am not trying hard, the DB is a really good organization, nothing about them is any more or less unbelievable then Dragon who talk and fly via magic.

-The totems of Hircine is a side-mission that you dont have to do, also both Farkas and Vilkas offer the cure quest, and the Dragon Seekers quest.

-the job of the companions is to solve problems, be they attacks by animals, or someone trying to rough someoen up, you do your job, you do it well, you get noticed.

-You treat merc bands like they are a business with some store you can just go to and order a group of them form. Mercs are normally just a group of people the owner hired. Theres not like some meta- merc group

-Even with the Flamer's hearing it is stil easier to stelath past them becuase killing one of them always alerts the rest.

-So? they wernt real worshipers f Clavicus, they didnt care about his overal plans, or really helping him out, they were just trying to be free.

-Boetheia got a really big shrine, and the shrine of Azura was built by Azura faithfuls who left Morrowind before red mountain blew, not the dunmer people as a whole.

-There arne't any in Skyrim, besides that one.

-Meredia's temple was built over and old Nordic burial mound, it was not built specifically for her, it was modified for her, and furthermore that Temple could have been there for AGES.

-How are the forsworn interesting? or sympathetic? They are mass murders claiming a land that isn't theirs as their own.

-The Vigliants were a generic copy-pasta religious zealot group, they were the single most generic faction in Skyrim. they were monks with maces

-And all of what Meridia did, requires little to no power to do, especially because it was at her temple, a place where Daedric powers are stronger

-Actually, in Oblivion, the player character was a Shezzarine, who become the reincarnation of Pelinal Whitestreak, the divine crusader, another Shezzarine, who then became a daedric prince.

-AND AGAIN, you can walk between any two places in Skyrim and not getting attacked by anthing if you walk carefully.

 

[SajuukKhar]

Perhaps you should stop coming on these forums, talking down to people who disagree with you about every little thing with TES and shouting lore at people "THE DRAGONBORN IS LORKHAN REBORN WHO IS TIBER SEPTIM WHO IS BLAH BLAH BLAH..." yeah no one cares because there's no evidence in the game and no one really cares about it because the story is so poorly told.

DA lore is so good because you can question it - there's multiple opinions on who is the true god, what is the Fade, who was Andraste, where do the Darkspawn come from? Did you ever go into the mountain dungeon with Oghren? He says the mountain is laced with lyrium, therefore that might be why the ashes have divine powers. It's a lot more ambiguous than you give it credit for and that's why it's good - it engages on an intellectual level by giving you facts and allowing you to make up your own opinion on it rather than just spouting bullshit theories about crazy divinity and Lorkhan and stuff that TES (and you) tells us.

Actually there is plenty of evidence for it in the games.

http://forums.uesp.net/viewtopic.php?p=763404#p763404

Spoiler

Anyways, as I made mention of before, there is a connection between being an avatar of Aka, and an avatar of Lorkhan. This connection comes from the bond Akatosh and Lorkhan share, a bond that stretches back to when they were created, and indeed long before that.

This connection is that Akatosh and Lorkhan are the same being, now I know most of you will be like "but... but... no they aren't" to which I will say, "yes they are" and "It has even been stated by the devs, and shown in the games themselves".


This whole thing begins before the release of Oblivion, MK, also known as Michael Kirkbride, stated that it was Shezzar who put Alessia into the Amulet of Kings, the original quote has long since been lost due to edits, forum archiving and the like, however discussions about it still exist as I will link below.
The Imperial Library - http://www.imperial-library.info/ForumArchives/AmuletAmulet.html
UESP - http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore_talk:Amulet_of_Kings#Shezzar_and_the_Chim-el_Adabal

However, when Oblivion came around, the book "The Amulet of Kings" stated it was Akatosh who put Alessia into the amulet.
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Amulet_of_Kings

This creates a contradiction..... or so it would seem. I am going to leave this hanging for a bit as I continue.


Next, I would like to point out the stained glass windows that depict Akatosh in the chapels in Oblivion.

Spoiler

Do you notice anything about it? Look closer at the head area. Do you see that Akatosh has two heads, one of a man and one of a Dragon? Odd indeed, I will leave this for now while asking a simple question, do you know who the god of man is?


Now I will skip over to Skyrim.

As you are obviously aware of there is a statue in Whiterun, and in several places across Skyrim, that depict Talos standing on a snake, while Talos points a sword at the snake's open mouth.

Spoiler

This statue is very symbolic in many ways, many important ways.

Let us take a look at the snake shall we? The snake is important because of old Nordic tradition, in the ancient past the Nords used animal totems to represent their gods, these animals were the hawk, wolf, snake, moth, owl, whale, bear, fox, and the dragon.
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Dragon_War

These animals should be well known to any Skyrim player as they appear throughout Nordic ruins. However there are three I want to talk about the most, specifically the snake, the whale, and the Hawk.

As you may remember the snake, the whale, and the hawk appeared on those spinning pillar puzzels. But what gods do they represent?
The Snake - Sep (The Snake): Yokudan version of Lorkhan. Shor (God of the Underworld): Nordic version of Lorkhan
The Hawk - Kyne (Kiss At the End): Nordic Goddess of the Storm. Widow of Shor and favored god of warriors.
The Whale - Tsun: Extinct Nordic god of trials against adversity. As you recall you met Tsun in Skyrim were he defended the WHALEBONE bridge.
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Varieties_of_Faith_in_the_Empire
Does anyone else find it fitting that the Nords would use their leader Shor, his wife Kyne, and their shield-thane Tsun as the gods to mark their burial tombs?

Now lets look back at another feature of the statue I mentioned before, specifically the part were the snake's mouth is open and Talos is pointing a sword at it. Furthermore let us take a look at the shrine of Akatosh as depicted in Skyrim.

Spoiler

what can we see from this shrine of Akatosh?

We can make out a dragon's head and a dragon's wings but there is something off about his body isn't there? His body is not that of a dragon, it does not have arms or legs, it is the body of a serpent the body of a coiled snake.

Furthermore his mouth is open while a sword is being placed into it. Does that remind you of anything? Because it sounds a lot like the Statue of Talos were he is placed a sword into the mouth of a snake, a snake we have determined to be Lorkhan.


The discrepancy between who put Alessia into the amulet
The dual headed window in Oblivion depecting a dragon and a man
The god statues that depict a sword being placed into a snake's open mouth

Akatosh and Lorkhan share a lot in common, maybe because they are the same being?

I would now like to give you a quote from Michal Kirkbride himself
http://www.imperial-library.info/ForumArchives/AmuletAmulet.html

You guessed it. The Arena is a collection of pseudo-imagos, all the way down to the core. Lorkhan is Akatosh, the Dragon God of Time is the Missing God of Change.

Akatosh, time, is Lorkhan, change
Lorkhan, chaos, is Akatosh, order

Seen as two, but really one.

That entire thing is the spoiler shows how Bethesda has shown the connection between akatosh, Lorkhan, and Talos, but since you never read the books you dont get the symbolism.

As to Dragon Age
-The Fade is a spirirt realm connected to huamn dreams
-Andreste was a woman who claimed to get visons from a being kown as the maker and led a rebllion against the Imperium
-the Darkspawn come from the golden City, which was never actually Golden.

 

[SajuukKhar]

http://images.wikia.com/elderscrolls/images/3/3e/700889-sithis_super.jpg
Note the giant hole in Sithis's chest, and his missing heart.

Sithis - http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Sithis_%28book%29
"So Sithis begat Lorkhan and sent him to destroy the universe."

The Monomyth - http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Monomyth
"Finally Trinimac, Auriel's greatest knight, knocked Lorkhan down in front of his army and reached in with more than hands to take his Heart."

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Song_of_Pelinal
"[And it is] said that he emerged into the world like a Padomaic, that is, borne by Sithis and all the forces of change therein. Still others, like Fifd of New Teed, say that beneath the Pelinal's star-armor was a chest that gaped open to show no heart, only a red rage shaped diamond-fashion, singing like a mindless dragon, and that this was proof that he was a myth-echo, and that where he trod were shapes of the first urging."

Before the Ages of Man - http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Before_the_Ages_of_Man
"Also during the Late Merethic Era the legendary immortal hero, warrior, sorcerer, and king variously known as Pelinal Whitestrake, Harrald Hairy Breeks, Ysmir, Hans the Fox, etc., wandered Tamriel, gathering armies, conquering lands, ruling, then abandoning his kingdoms to wander again."

Five Songs of King Wulfharth - http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Five_Songs_of_King_Wulfharth
"King Wulfharth was called Shor's Tongue, and Ysmir, Dragon of the North."

"Shor gathered an army as he did of old, and then he sucked in the long-strewn ashes of King Wulfharth and remade him, for he needed a good general."

The Arcturian Heresy - http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Arcturian_Heresy
"The Underking arrives and is ambushed by Imperial guards. As he takes them on, Zurin Arctus uses a soulgem on him. With his last breath, the Underking's Heart roars a hole through the Battlemage's chest."

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Varieties_of_Faith...
Varieties of Faith in the Empire
Tiber Septim (Talos, the Dragonborn): Heir to the Seat of Sundered Kings, Tiber Septim is the most important hero-god of Mankind. He conquered all of Tamriel and ushered in the Third Era (and the Third Empire). Also called Ysmir, 'Dragon of the North'.
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Sithis, Lorkhan, Zurin Arctus, Ysmir Wulfharth The Underking, Pelinal Whitestrake are all mythic echos of each other, connected by the heart that they lost.

Tiber is connected to him by Akatosh, who as I showed in my previous post, is Lorkhan.

all of it in-game, if you would only read.

 

[SajuukKhar]

In other words, not buying it. If Talos caused some sort of time-space event that rewrote the history of Cyrodiil then I have to question why Heimskr seems so aware of it.

The same reason why people are aware of all 8 different timelines that happened during the Dragonbreak. Rewriting time does not cause the memories of the first timeline to cease to be.

And I'm certain when they turn Valenwood into a land of vast rolling plains that's precisely what they'll say.

I don't see why they would do it, but if they did, they had aready told us not to trust the pocket guide.

Subtropical forests are still very dense, especially around rivers. In fact, the low-density of Skyrim's forests can only be assumed because of extensive logging.

Or you know..... its a fantasy game and thus not subject to real world environmental conditions.

You're comfortable with making that assumption despite the fact that Hjaalmarch is on the other side of Tamriel and far to the north?

Considering they are both sawmp, all Behtesda would have to do is remove the snow, add in man eating planets, and Hist, and then they basically have blackmarsh.

And I'm certain when they turn Valenwood into a land of vast rolling plains that's precisely what they'll say.

Did you repat that on purpose

Evidence of poor design in either case.

Considering the game is supposed to be level scaled, it isn't bad game design, its games design you odnt like, but not liking it does not make it bad by default.

It's the crux of your argument, magnitude is irrelevant.

Magnitiude is totally relevant, because magnitude is part of my argument.

That's not an exploit, that's using the features of the game in a way that the developers intended. If that's truly such a big deal then the skill trainers can be removed or prices can be tweaked until it's no longer feasible to attain 100 skill in everything.

Removing skill trainers? hell no, if they did you would be here screaming about them dumbing down the game.

Also, with the amount of gold you can make, it would be impossible to make the price feasible, and non exploitative at the same time.

Name a mod which seeks to do this.

I said modders tried to do it, not that they ever successfully released a mod that did, its hard to name something that was never named.

Show me the threads

Becuase thread from nearly a decade ago have survived all the purges? do you even think about your argument?

You consistently refuse to define what "power" means here. I suspect you're aware that if you do you'll be forced to confront how silly your argument really is.

I haven't defined it because you never asked, and it seems obvious.

The power to fight through enemies, find things that need to be found, and the power to use those thigns as they are needed to accomplish a goal, and/or make yourself stronger.

The Dovahkiin's use of the Thu'um doesn't fit the criteria of the scholarly art that is magic. The dragonborn shouts in the same manner that dragons do, naturally. The Greybeards use of the Thu'um would certainly fit the criteria, but the dragonborn is not amongst their number.

Being Naturally magical does not negate the fact that one is magical, and indeed, natural voice useres are even more rare then normal voice users, you are a rarity amongst rarities, which makes you even more desirable to a bunch of knowledge hoarders.

An invincible coven of religious assassins that the established continent spanning EMPIRE is powerless to deal with is, yes, more unbelievable.

Never said they were invisible, just that they always got the job done and people feared them for it.

furthermore, I never said the empire was powerless to do anything about them, just that they didn't try out of Fear.

You really have an odd habit of putting words into other peoples mouth.

Both side-quests that you don't have to do, if we're disdainfully writing off the Totems of Hircine I think it's safe to apply to same treatment to those quests.

Which was exactly my point, none of the circle members are any more prominent post questline completion.

Relevant to what?

Relevant to "you did your job well so The companions notice you for it, thus explaining why they think highly of you, and thus why they would make you Harbinger"

No I treat them like what mercenaries actually are, bands of professional soldiers who are paid to provide a service. There are obviously mercenary groups in Tamriel, the Companions are such a group.

The companions aren't mercenaries.

Also, no one said they are professional, or that they do it for a living all the time, they could very well just be locals getting paid to stand around and watch the place.

Relevant how?

Relivant to the fact that we were discussion how you didn't like how sneaking was a less viable option and me pointing out it is more viable? have you forgotten your own arguments now?

The same could be said of any devoted follower of any deity.

Except many Christians who genuinely believe in the teaching of god, and aren't in it for some reward. Now your just getting all into semantics.

Which changes absolutely nothing I've said.

Except it does.

Asura only got a big shine because she saved a bunch of her own followers, which she drove off, explaining why she has non left.

On the other hand Boethia is the god king of the dunmer, which explains why she would have more being the central figure in dunmer religion.

So you claim.

No, says the priestess herself.

she specifically says in her dialog all the other Azura worshipers left because of the visions.

Arguably a greater undertaking, varying on the number of undead that needed to be cleared out previously.

The Dragur didn't become really active until the Dragons showed up, and killing a few undead is not a greater undertaking then building an entire multilayers temple.

The Reach is theirs, the Nords are the invaders, and several ingame books hint at the cruelty the Nords inflicted on them. Ulfric Stormcloak in particular, their King confirms some of this. They were made monsters by the circumstances of their

Incorrect, all of mankind, except The redguards, were created by Kyne at the throat of the world.

All of Skyrim belongs to all of mankind, the reach is as much as the Nords home as it is the Bretons, and indeed, their zealotry and close-minded isolationism got them what they deserved.

Which is why quests, dialogue, and more characters were needed to flesh them out. It isn't Vigilants fault there was little info on them, it's Bethesdas fault. It's Bethesdas fault for quietly dropping them and handwaving the Dawnguard off as a splinter group.

They didn't need quests to flesh them out, they were a religious order founded after the OBlivion crisis to hunt Daedra, and necromancers, and vampires, and werewovles.

Not everything has to have some uber deep meaning, some factions, much like some groups IRL, just are, and have a simple background.

Exactly, hence she should have no problem manifesting a few aurorans in her own temple. You really kind of walked right into that one...

I said daedric power was stronger at the deadra's temples, not that she was strong enough at her temple, despite the lack of followers, to summon more daedra.

I walked into nothing, you put words into my mouth and walked for me.

Indeed, and Martin Septim played a greater role in the main quest. It was an interesting way of handling it, the player character was not a Mary Sue destined to be the most special of all. I'm actually totally going to countdown how long it'll take for us to find out the player character from Skyrim is now an Aedra in TES 6.

Actually you were, the entire point of the games is that the player character is a person chosen by the Elder Scrolls themselves to save the world

in Oblivion it was
-You who got the Amulet of Kings
-You who delivered it to Jaufree
-You who rescued Martin
-You who collected the materials to go to paradise
-You who went to paradise, killed Mankar, and got the Amulet of King
-You who protected Martin's sorry ass again so he culd get to the temple
You did everything in Oblivion

Also, you wouldnt be recognized as an Areda in TES6, you would just be Talos, and since you never met the Aedra, as all the Aedra are dead, we wont get the same thing we did with Sheogorath were he hints at the truth.

Unproven

Except you can do it yourself.

 

[Timberwolf0924]

now Cliff Racers?