'Empowering to women'?

[Saelune]

it's a stupid,sexist , misguided ideal and all those who use it should be ashamed. i have alot to say about it but using these words will get me banne so let me conclude by asking if women really need empowering. They already have equal rights to men and now those feminist swine are just being greedy

this is a pet peave of mine, in case you didn't realise

'Feminism' is to believe in equal rights between men and women. Feminism isn't a dirty word and it's quite strange a lot of people seem to think it is.

Also, men and women are not equal in all rights. Just look at who makes the laws in most Western countries and employment levels of men and women in large office environments: they are not nearly the same. Please don't try to make out that men are the worse off in society right now because that comes across as simply not looking outside your own viewpoint.

I could accuse you of eactly the same thing! Feminism once did mean equal rights, now it does not. Now, I believe in equal rights. I believe in equality between all races, colours, creeds and genders, but many people out there don't. To quote Commander Vimes: "just because you're an ethnic minority doesn't mean that you're not a small minded jerk."

also, Women DO get equal rights most of the time! Sure there are some exceptions, but these are equal in number to the number of white men not getting hired because we are white men. I can't speak for all nations, of course, but I think that Equality has already been achieved an that,half the time, people "looking out for ____ rights!" are actually just trying to get a handout

While I agree the word feminism, and too many feminists are bad, and trying to SHIFT power instead of balance it, I KNOW men and women are not equal. Though it is not a divide the way people see it I think. People imagine it as a measuring scale where adding weight to one side make sthe other go up. Some areas women have it worse. The workplace and the like. But some places men have it worse. Women may get payed less, but men are less able to express themselves. A woman is more allowed to be masculine than a man to be feminine.
People need to accept that equallity is not achieved, but also that to get it, we need to fight for more than just women. (or just men either)

 

[Trolldor]

Clearly this entire issue shouldn't be discussed on these forums.

Because...? You didn't find a few hundred people who scream 'Society is like Athens! Women are treated like property and have no rights! Outrage!' I apologize, but that isn't what the word discussion means.

Discussion: An extended communication (often interactive) dealing with some particular topic;
An exchange of views on some topic

This is, by the very definition of the word, a discussion. You may not like the direction the discussion is going on, but that doesn't make it less valid.

In addition, you're aware that more women hold higher positions and have more education then most men...so there's that. If you were looking for TRUE SUPER EQUALITY, then women would have to be rejected until the number of graduates equaled men so it's an equal 50-50 split. (I don't think anything like that should be done, for the record.)

I lol'd @ anglo-centric notions.

Try reading a bit more, maybe go to the Middle East, see how empowered women are there.
Go to Africa, maybe, as well. Lots of empowered women there.
I mean they get raped and abused and trafficked and traded, but they certainly hold higher positions than the me--- Oh, wait.

 

[Mallefunction]

I don't think that showing off for people (regardless of the audiences' gender or the actual material being shown, whether sexual or non) is empowering. Performing is another thing. A pole-dancer who enjoys their job and finds gratification in their work is being empowered. Some girl getting up on a bar stool and trying to dance while stumbling in her heels is not.

I guess it's just the professionalism that makes the difference for me.

 

[MadHatter1993]

meh, i believe in equal rights, so basically to me this means if a woman dances on a poll,is no different than a man dancing on a poll, they're both bad and most people would be ashamed of their job. hence the terms such as "exotic dancer" or an "entertainer". anyways, if women want equal writes then they should be treated like everyone else, just like black people wanting equal rights. no one gets a month long celebration. jewish people didn't. so in other words, everyone should be treated like crap. but that's just me.

 

[MadHatter1993]

it's a stupid,sexist , misguided ideal and all those who use it should be ashamed. i have alot to say about it but using these words will get me banne so let me conclude by asking if women really need empowering. They already have equal rights to men and now those feminist swine are just being greedy

this is a pet peave of mine, in case you didn't realise

'Feminism' is to believe in equal rights between men and women. Feminism isn't a dirty word and it's quite strange a lot of people seem to think it is.

Also, men and women are not equal in all rights. Just look at who makes the laws in most Western countries and employment levels of men and women in large office environments: they are not nearly the same. Please don't try to make out that men are the worse off in society right now because that comes across as simply not looking outside your own viewpoint.

I could accuse you of eactly the same thing! Feminism once did mean equal rights, now it does not. Now, I believe in equal rights. I believe in equality between all races, colours, creeds and genders, but many people out there don't. To quote Commander Vimes: "just because you're an ethnic minority doesn't mean that you're not a small minded jerk."

also, Women DO get equal rights most of the time! Sure there are some exceptions, but these are equal in number to the number of white men not getting hired because we are white men. I can't speak for all nations, of course, but I think that Equality has already been achieved an that,half the time, people "looking out for ____ rights!" are actually just trying to get a handout

While I agree the word feminism, and too many feminists are bad, and trying to SHIFT power instead of balance it, I KNOW men and women are not equal. Though it is not a divide the way people see it I think. People imagine it as a measuring scale where adding weight to one side make sthe other go up. Some areas women have it worse. The workplace and the like. But some places men have it worse. Women may get payed less, but men are less able to express themselves. A woman is more allowed to be masculine than a man to be feminine.
People need to accept that equallity is not achieved, but also that to get it, we need to fight for more than just women. (or just men either)

Why can't people accept for what life really is? a bunch of ***holes who are never content.

 

[Boris Goodenough]

This doesn't even apply to what I said. No where did I state that all fields should be equally represented by women, but instead that our pay should be effected by modern day reality, that reality being that women are and will continue to be at current rate, the most well suited for our information, technology, and service economy.

Norway's economy is suffering (relative, seeing as they swim in oil money), because women are "forced" into high positions by around 12% compared to other countries (when all factos have been weighted).
So your statement is a bit off.

 

[SL33TBL1ND]

I don't see why anyone cares what gender they are. Male, female, neither, both - whatever. Means as much to me as my eye colour or shade of eyebrow.

I bet that leads to some interesting surprises...

Sorry, couldn't help myself.

 

[Saelune]

it's a stupid,sexist , misguided ideal and all those who use it should be ashamed. i have alot to say about it but using these words will get me banne so let me conclude by asking if women really need empowering. They already have equal rights to men and now those feminist swine are just being greedy

this is a pet peave of mine, in case you didn't realise

'Feminism' is to believe in equal rights between men and women. Feminism isn't a dirty word and it's quite strange a lot of people seem to think it is.

Also, men and women are not equal in all rights. Just look at who makes the laws in most Western countries and employment levels of men and women in large office environments: they are not nearly the same. Please don't try to make out that men are the worse off in society right now because that comes across as simply not looking outside your own viewpoint.

I could accuse you of eactly the same thing! Feminism once did mean equal rights, now it does not. Now, I believe in equal rights. I believe in equality between all races, colours, creeds and genders, but many people out there don't. To quote Commander Vimes: "just because you're an ethnic minority doesn't mean that you're not a small minded jerk."

also, Women DO get equal rights most of the time! Sure there are some exceptions, but these are equal in number to the number of white men not getting hired because we are white men. I can't speak for all nations, of course, but I think that Equality has already been achieved an that,half the time, people "looking out for ____ rights!" are actually just trying to get a handout

While I agree the word feminism, and too many feminists are bad, and trying to SHIFT power instead of balance it, I KNOW men and women are not equal. Though it is not a divide the way people see it I think. People imagine it as a measuring scale where adding weight to one side make sthe other go up. Some areas women have it worse. The workplace and the like. But some places men have it worse. Women may get payed less, but men are less able to express themselves. A woman is more allowed to be masculine than a man to be feminine.
People need to accept that equallity is not achieved, but also that to get it, we need to fight for more than just women. (or just men either)

Why can't people accept for what life really is? a bunch of ***holes who are never content.

Why be content with bad? If there is a better life, why not go for it if you can? Until everyone is happy without it hurting anyone else's happiness, there is always something better.

 

[Twilight_guy]

I dunno. It's kind of an odd thing. They should have the power to be sexual if they want, like men (I don't see expressing their right to strip very often either) but I got to wonder why they would want to. What does showing off one's body accomplish? Do men regularly parade in front of women, drop their drawers and tease you for not being able to expose their-selves as well? I don't think so. I think the double standard is that a man can nail everything that moves and not be looked down on while a woman who does the same thing is a big slut. Shouldn't sexual empowerment mean making guys who sleep with many women and women who sleep with many guys be seen as equal? I dunno. I'm not going to tackle this one because every-time an argument like this comes up a bunch of angry people yell at me until I feel bad and go away.

 

[MadHatter1993]

it's a stupid,sexist , misguided ideal and all those who use it should be ashamed. i have alot to say about it but using these words will get me banne so let me conclude by asking if women really need empowering. They already have equal rights to men and now those feminist swine are just being greedy

this is a pet peave of mine, in case you didn't realise

'Feminism' is to believe in equal rights between men and women. Feminism isn't a dirty word and it's quite strange a lot of people seem to think it is.

Also, men and women are not equal in all rights. Just look at who makes the laws in most Western countries and employment levels of men and women in large office environments: they are not nearly the same. Please don't try to make out that men are the worse off in society right now because that comes across as simply not looking outside your own viewpoint.

I could accuse you of eactly the same thing! Feminism once did mean equal rights, now it does not. Now, I believe in equal rights. I believe in equality between all races, colours, creeds and genders, but many people out there don't. To quote Commander Vimes: "just because you're an ethnic minority doesn't mean that you're not a small minded jerk."

also, Women DO get equal rights most of the time! Sure there are some exceptions, but these are equal in number to the number of white men not getting hired because we are white men. I can't speak for all nations, of course, but I think that Equality has already been achieved an that,half the time, people "looking out for ____ rights!" are actually just trying to get a handout

While I agree the word feminism, and too many feminists are bad, and trying to SHIFT power instead of balance it, I KNOW men and women are not equal. Though it is not a divide the way people see it I think. People imagine it as a measuring scale where adding weight to one side make sthe other go up. Some areas women have it worse. The workplace and the like. But some places men have it worse. Women may get payed less, but men are less able to express themselves. A woman is more allowed to be masculine than a man to be feminine.
People need to accept that equallity is not achieved, but also that to get it, we need to fight for more than just women. (or just men either)

Why can't people accept for what life really is? a bunch of ***holes who are never content.

Why be content with bad? If there is a better life, why not go for it if you can? Until everyone is happy without it hurting anyone else's happiness, there is always something better.

for who? people always say better till they pass a certain point, where yes it benefits them, but harms the other party. people have tried that. if i'm correct it was called communism. sadly it never works out. all we can do really is hope for the best and play shoots and ladders like the stock markets.

 

[MadHatter1993]

We've all heard this statement. Some of us may have used it ourselves. What's I'm wondering, though, is what exactly constitutes empowerment for women when it comes to matters of expressing sexuality?

We often see people look at adverts of young, attractive, tastefully-nude women on television to which someone will say "this is making an object of women" while another person says "this is empowering women."

We may hear people who claim pole-dancing, pornography, and sometimes even prostitution is a form of empowerment for women when it comes to sexuality.

What are your thoughts on the matter, Escapist? What games, advertisements, etc have you seen that empower women's sexuality in a way that you don't think exploits it? Where is the line? What do you think of the above examples?

if we choose to make everyone equal, there would be no "object", but there would also be no "empowerment" thus making life bland. truthfully i don't find dancers empowered so much as accepted.
equality is to acceptance
empowerment is to ehh...being above? somewhere around those lines. thus creating an alternate dimension where men would have the same problem. but really this is all about the feeling then yes, i do not believe that using your sexuality as a tool to feel better about yourself. but this is what makes the world so interesting.

 

[Jaime_Wolf]

You're basically just seeing the different waves of feminism and, like most social movements, later waves tend to have an interpretation almost perfectly opposed to that of the older generations.

 

[Trolldor]

Oh hai guys, got a brilliant article on how empowered women are.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2011/05/11/3213864.htm?section=world

Here's the headline, to save you some time:

More than 1,100 rapes daily in Congo: study

 

[Colour Scientist]

It's amazing how many people on this site have no idea what feminism actually is. It's like saying all Muslims want to fly into American buildings or that all Christians want to kill off homosexuals, focusing on the extremists who, a lot of the time, misconstrue a belief.

 

[willofbob]

it's a stupid,sexist , misguided ideal and all those who use it should be ashamed. i have alot to say about it but using these words will get me banne so let me conclude by asking if women really need empowering. They already have equal rights to men and now those feminist swine are just being greedy

this is a pet peave of mine, in case you didn't realise

'Feminism' is to believe in equal rights between men and women. Feminism isn't a dirty word and it's quite strange a lot of people seem to think it is.

Also, men and women are not equal in all rights. Just look at who makes the laws in most Western countries and employment levels of men and women in large office environments: they are not nearly the same. Please don't try to make out that men are the worse off in society right now because that comes across as simply not looking outside your own viewpoint.

I could accuse you of eactly the same thing! Feminism once did mean equal rights, now it does not. Now, I believe in equal rights. I believe in equality between all races, colours, creeds and genders, but many people out there don't. To quote Commander Vimes: "just because you're an ethnic minority doesn't mean that you're not a small minded jerk."

also, Women DO get equal rights most of the time! Sure there are some exceptions, but these are equal in number to the number of white men not getting hired because we are white men. I can't speak for all nations, of course, but I think that Equality has already been achieved an that,half the time, people "looking out for ____ rights!" are actually just trying to get a handout

While I agree the word feminism, and too many feminists are bad, and trying to SHIFT power instead of balance it, I KNOW men and women are not equal. Though it is not a divide the way people see it I think. People imagine it as a measuring scale where adding weight to one side make sthe other go up. Some areas women have it worse. The workplace and the like. But some places men have it worse. Women may get payed less, but men are less able to express themselves. A woman is more allowed to be masculine than a man to be feminine.
People need to accept that equallity is not achieved, but also that to get it, we need to fight for more than just women. (or just men either)

/thread

well done, that is perfect