This a common mistake. EoE is not a violent response to the fans annoyed and angry reaction to the original ending. In fact it's quite close to the original concept for episodes 25 and 26.JudgeGame said:
End of Evangelion: THE HELL WAS THAT?
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Personally, I feel Evangelion is a terribly overrated series. I remember a guy in high school going on and on about the "psychological" factors and religion, and so forth. Back then I thought it was just a shitty show, but when you dig deeper it's even worse than that. I think a contributing factor is that the guy who made it was pretty unstable himself and maybe someone should've seen the writing on the wall - aside from him, I mean. The way he threw "fan work" back into everyone's faces by having the comatose masturbation scene (among other things) was really below the belt and plenty of fans who weren't that sort were doubtlessly offended.
Really, the show had potential, but I think the only person who really makes any sense of it is the guy who came up with it. All we can do is guess and then try to forget later.
Really, the show had potential, but I think the only person who really makes any sense of it is the guy who came up with it. All we can do is guess and then try to forget later.
After reading through this thread, I honestly can't remember EoE being quite this fucked up, which means that either I've forgotten most of it or my 16 year old self was pretty fucked up. I suspect it's the latter, and that kind of scares me.
Still, even back then I thought the original ending of the series was great, and I watched that show for the mecha battles that were very noticeably not present in the last two episodes. Maybe I forgave it because I knew exactly how low-budget those two episodes were, but even then it really made sense to the semi-depressed and sexually frustrated teenager I remember being back then.
Still, even back then I thought the original ending of the series was great, and I watched that show for the mecha battles that were very noticeably not present in the last two episodes. Maybe I forgave it because I knew exactly how low-budget those two episodes were, but even then it really made sense to the semi-depressed and sexually frustrated teenager I remember being back then.
I'd say the original intent and the moral Anno was trying to get across is still in EoE, it's just condensed.JudgeGame said:
I'd argue Rebuild isn't a cash grab either, but Anno wanted to make Eva again with an actual decent budget this time and a more stable mind. You could argue anything to be a cash grab anyway, since almost anything will make money.
To put it simply, people are worth knowing even if they hurt you sometimes, and life is worth living even if it's difficult sometimes. Everything else is window dressing.JudgeGame said:
You should ideally start with the 26-episode original series. As I think I mentioned, End of Evangelion is really a do-over of the last two episodes of the series, so treat it as episode 25 and 26.Project_Xii said:
If you genuinely haven't heard anything about NGE, and are interested in watching it for the first time, I should give you some tips. NGE is like Spec Ops: it assumes that the audience has certain expectations about the genre so that it can play with and deconstruct those expectations.
1) The show is fundamentally about two things; giant robots fighting giant monsters, and psychologically damaged characters attempting to communicate with each other in a flawed universe. You can enjoy it for either or both of these two things and you shouldn't feel bad if the giant robot fighting seems shallow or the psychological drama seems faffy.
2) Neon Genesis Evangelion was essentially a response to classical anime works in the "super robot" genre. Works in that genre had common tropes and elements that Hideaki Anno was aware of and wanted to criticise. One of these was the aggressive, hot-blooded pilot protagonist, who as a character was bombastic, enthusiastic and confident, and whose robot became more powerful as the pilot got more excited and angry. Keep that in mind as you watch NGE's main character Shinji deal with having to pilot his giant robot. There are other points of contrast, but I don't want to weigh you down before going into it; just keep in mind that the show wasn't intended to be approached as a deconstructive masterpiece, it was intended to be approached as a show about giant robots, which is what actually allows it to get as crazy as it does.
3) The creator, Hideaki Anno, was struggling with clinical depression that worsened as the series progressed, and was in a dysfunctional relationship with the VA for Asuka. Once you have that in mind, the actions of the main characters make much more sense; they are all psychologically damaged in some fashion, and that affects their motivations and goals. If you ever look at Shinji and go "Why isn't he doing X or Y?", which is a common reaction in the audience, just imagine that you're watching a mentally ill person instead of a typical heroic protagonist. Part of the point of the story is that Shinji isn't a hero, and none of the characters are really heroic, and all of them are dysfunctional and can't deal with their problems.
4) There's a whole lot of religious symbolism that is frankly put in for the sake of symbolism, and doesn't have much of an effect on the plot beyond broad-strokes thematic similarities. You don't actually need to understand any of the Kaballah crap to enjoy the series, although it can enhance your enjoyment if you're interested in that stuff. So don't be switched off once they start talking about the Dead Sea Scrolls or the Sephirot or the nephilim - it's mostly ancillary. I'm just saying this because the Christian symbolism was a turn-off for a lot of people who thought the series was some kind of religious propaganda (it really isn't.)
5) The show is not perfect! Don't let anyone trick you into fooling that this is some flawless masterwork of Japanese art; you will only be disappointed by the hype backlash. The series is really, really good; it's one of the greatest animes ever crafted by the hands of man, but nothing is perfect and not everyone is going to enjoy it, so by God don't feel bad if you watch one episode and think it's a dud. Don't let anyone insult your intelligence by saying you're not allowed to dislike NGE on its own merits.
Maya is miles more psychologically stable than Shinji. Sure, she's just aGunsmithKitten said:
secretly gay
beniki was spot-on about the satire of big mecha anime, though. That's really something that you need to keep in mind as you watch the series. If you don't, it's really like going into Spec Ops: The Line having never played a modern military shooter before - you're just going to end up confused and depressed.
I'd say if you don't want to watch the entire series and don't care about small nuances altered, watch the first reboot film (1.0: You are (Not) Alone) as it's basically a condensed, shot-for-shot remake of the first 6 episodes. Then start watching the series from episode 8 onward (episode 7 has no meaning at all). The reboot films, from what I've heard of the third one, are no longer the Evangelion the series was, but a completely different story. Or for the best version of Evangelion, read the manga. It's superior to both the series and the films in Every. Possible. Way.Project_Xii said:
And man, is it fun to see an honest response to EoE. I think it's one of the most bizarre and fucked-up films ever created. It took me a while to adjust my thoughts on it, but now when I watch it I almost always laugh. It's a giant "WTF???" to anyone, regardless of whether or not they have seen the series. I was never a fan of the series, and ended up liking some bits of it, but heavily disliking the rest. The show is a complete mess of incomprehensible mysteries, pretentious symbolism, unlikable characters, tragedy spinning out of control, half-baked plotlines and some really, really unpleasant undertones.
I really don't think there are many films like End of Evangelion. No other film has the atmosphere of it. It goes from okay to bad, from bad to worse, from worse to nightmarish and ends up in a scenario that's almost incomprehensibly horrifying. I don't like the film, but it has some really good parts and the animation is pretty good. And by God, the imagery, the imagery. I would love to show it to someone who knows the basic premise of Evangelion, but has never watched it. The amount of "WTF??" would be priceless.
Project_Xii said:
Watch episodes 1-26. Episodes 21-24 have directors cuts versions, so if you can find them online then it's advised to watch those. After those, watch End of Evangelion, the other film (Death and Rebirth) is just a recap.Vhite said:
After that, if you want to you can watch the new Rebuild of Evangelion films which is a new canon. However it hasn't finished yet as only 3 of the 4 films have been released(the 3rd being released in Japan only recently).
I did an Eva marathon with some friends in college where we watched the entire series and then went to the movies afterwards. I recognize that the series is an important piece of anime history, but I just thought the series was OK. It's got it's good parts here and there, but I've enjoyed other mecha anime far more than Eva.
As for EoE, I was very confused by it as well. It seemed more like "Look at all the religious imagery and symbolism! And the gore! And naked chicks! We are so deep!" which to me was not what the series was about. Perhaps I didn't "get it" but EoE was more about the visual spectacle rather than actually connecting it to the series.
As for EoE, I was very confused by it as well. It seemed more like "Look at all the religious imagery and symbolism! And the gore! And naked chicks! We are so deep!" which to me was not what the series was about. Perhaps I didn't "get it" but EoE was more about the visual spectacle rather than actually connecting it to the series.
I had always heard that End of Eva was believed to pretty much be a big "fuck you" from the creator to the fanbase who had sent him death threats if he didn't make a proper ending.
I remember greatly disliking the movie because it just came across as a hilariously pretentious mess, but after learning about that, it makes more sense why the movie turned out like it did.
I remember greatly disliking the movie because it just came across as a hilariously pretentious mess, but after learning about that, it makes more sense why the movie turned out like it did.
I actually really like this, but that's more personal preference than objective film criticism, as I've never seen a movie which so accurately portrayed what my nightmares look and sound like. It's kind of eerie, but really interesting. I know that there's a lot of crying about "OMG SO PRETENTIOUS" and also a lot of rabid fan-boyism towards his movie and franchise in general, but i think that's kind of missing the point. It's not really a "good" movie or a "bad" movie. It exists to try to take something universal from the human psyche and throw it up onscreen, and if you personally connect with it, it' succeeded, and if it doesn't, it failed. I think it's a very personal film, and says a lot about Hideaki Anno as a person. If you can't connect to him or find his film making methods grating, annoying or self-indulgent (which is something that I can definitely understand) you aren't going to like it at all.
It is also horrifying. Don't forget that part. IF only the animation wasn't as convoluted as the story was, but I suppose from the way you guys describe it, that's the point.
I'm still left wondering: the fuck did I just watch?
I'm still left wondering: the fuck did I just watch?